Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 11-18-2012, 06:15 PM   #921
Rivet Master
 
1974 Argosy 20
2014 20' Flying Cloud
Kooskia , Idaho
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 4,591
Sorry Rich, think you got your post in the wrong thread. This is the Andersen Hitch users thread.
__________________

idroba is offline  
Old 11-18-2012, 07:05 PM   #922
4 Rivet Member
 
Rich of SCal's Avatar
 
2012 16' Sport
San Bernardino , California
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 443
Images: 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by idroba View Post
Sorry Rich, think you got your post in the wrong thread. This is the Andersen Hitch users thread.
OK I get it. But this repair was a direct result of trying to install my Anderson hitch, so my warnings about drilling the set screw, etc. apply to warry installers. I just thought with all the experience here you could weather a brief side step to the cord issue (which happened during the Anderson install...see my prior posts) so I can quickly get back to finalizing my Anderson hitch install. With all the 1000's of posts by you guys, this shouldn't be a total threadjack. My goal is still the same...get my Anderson safely installed and operational!
__________________

Rich of SCal is offline  
Old 11-18-2012, 07:25 PM   #923
Tino
 
Tino643's Avatar
 
Currently Looking...
Blainville , Quebec
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by AWCHIEF View Post
Tino, are you saying that Andersen makes the system with a round bracket tube or that they make an extended bracket. I know that they will custom makes different bracket lengths if requested. I really don't see how it would work safely with the round tube, the chain will twist.
they made extended not rond....
Tino643 is offline  
Old 11-18-2012, 07:43 PM   #924
Rivet Master
 
dkottum's Avatar
 
2012 25' Flying Cloud
Battle Lake , Minnesota
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 7,716
Quote:
Originally Posted by polarlyse View Post
I had thought about making a modified bracket also but using the square tubing for the reasons mentioned. I think I'll try it out as is for awhile before looking into that route. One thing I hadn't thought about was the length of the hitch. The distance from the receiver pin to the ball center is about 1.5" shorter than on my previous WD hitch. At the longer length I could just barely open my truck tailgate without hitting the electric tongue jack when hitched. That was so long as I was straight. I failed to try it when I took my Anderson for a test drive but this has come up for discussion later. I will have to contact Anderson this week and see if I can get one with a longer bar. I could have it modified but if it's not too costly I will go with what they are able to provide.

I think that Tino is on the right track but I agree he should have used the square tubing.

See y'all on the road sometime.
Andrew Thompson of CanAm RV did some road tests and determined the shorter the distance of the ball from the rear axle, the better the handling. That is also the principle behind the Hensley hitch design. Even an 1 1/2" makes a difference. Best to keep it as short as possible, some people even redrilling the bar shaft pin hole to shorten the distance.

doug k
dkottum is offline  
Old 11-18-2012, 07:56 PM   #925
Rivet Master
 
dkottum's Avatar
 
2012 25' Flying Cloud
Battle Lake , Minnesota
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 7,716
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich of SCal View Post
Chief is right, That won't work. But I wonder if he could just drill a couple small holes and put in a bolt going through the center of a link. Doesn't seem like it would take much to keep the chain from twisting. The adjustment screw isn't a high torque item.
The chain has to move back and forth in the tube with compression and release of the urethane bushings as the trailer moves down uneven roadways, driveway approaches and such.

I don't see why the tube couldn't be round if the chains could be held while tightening. But I don't see any advantage to it either.

This is an effort I guess to prevent chain wear. If you align the bracket to the chains when installing, that should do it. No point in getting seeking absolute perfection as this angle changes slightly and constantly as the trailer moves down uneven roads.

I haven't seen any wear in 3700 miles; I did give the chains a slight shot of CorrosionX as a lube and to prevent rust soon after seeing some rubbing of the finish on my first few miles.

doug k
dkottum is offline  
Old 11-18-2012, 08:56 PM   #926
Rivet Master
 
AWCHIEF's Avatar
 
2006 23' Safari SE
Biloxi , Mississippi
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 8,278
Images: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tino643 View Post
they made extended not rond....
That is what I thought. I also think you will find there is good reason why they do not make the bracket round. I now have the new angled brackets and am very happy with the install and angle. The chain is a straight shot to the triangle. I have no new wear on the chain and it no longer binds up in the box. I applaud Andersen for their quick response to the unique mounting problems of Airstream owners.
__________________
MICHAEL

Do you know what a learning experience is? A learning experience is one of those things that says "You know that thing that you just did? Don't do that."
AWCHIEF is offline  
Old 11-18-2012, 09:22 PM   #927
banjobill
 
wmarsha's Avatar
 
2000 30' Limited
battle ground, , Washington
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 512
an idea?

I have been following this thread with great interest. The round vs. square tube for the chain reminded me of the chaffing of the chain/tube. What if some tough nylon was inserted into whatever shape of tube you wanted to use such that all the chain movement was on the nylon and not the tubing? Tubing may have to be a little larger, but that should not be a problem. If the nylon had an interior hole shape like an equal arm cross (an X?) then the chain would slip right into it; the tubing if square, would keep it from turning, or if using round tubing, then the nylon would have to be pinned somehow to keep it from spinning inside the round steel outer tubing. just a thought.
wmarsha is offline  
Old 11-18-2012, 09:45 PM   #928
Rivet Master
 
FreshAir's Avatar

 
1966 24' Tradewind
Placerville , California
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 3,327
Images: 2
I have been 'working' with Dave Andersen for a special built shank. I need an extended shank because my gas filler is behind the licence plate in the center of rear bumper. My current WDH shank is barely...no it's not long enough so inserting the gas nozzle is difficult. Currently my hitch ball is 14" from the shank pin. I need a least 16". Dave is concerned that the receiver is mounted securely to the car frame. I think it is as the current WDH hasn't caused any problems except early on ( 6 years ago) when I noticed some bend in the box steel that was used. That was resolved. The hitch installer that I used is an Andersen dealer so I am going to him for his opinion.

Neil
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	P1011017.jpg
Views:	98
Size:	115.7 KB
ID:	172936   Click image for larger version

Name:	P1011016.jpg
Views:	124
Size:	115.3 KB
ID:	172937  

Click image for larger version

Name:	P9210593.jpg
Views:	80
Size:	83.1 KB
ID:	172938   Click image for larger version

Name:	Our Rig_edited-1.jpg
Views:	128
Size:	602.1 KB
ID:	172939  

Click image for larger version

Name:	P1011014.jpg
Views:	115
Size:	98.3 KB
ID:	172940  
__________________
Neil and Lynn Holman
FreshAir #12407

Avatar;
Kirk Creek, Big Sur, Ca. coast.

1966 Trade Wind

1971 Buick Centurion convertible
455 cid

1969 Oldsmobile Ninety Eight
455 cid
FreshAir is offline  
Old 11-18-2012, 11:50 PM   #929
4 Rivet Member
 
Rich of SCal's Avatar
 
2012 16' Sport
San Bernardino , California
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 443
Images: 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by dkottum View Post
Andrew Thompson of CanAm RV did some road tests and determined the shorter the distance of the ball from the rear axle, the better the handling. That is also the principle behind the Hensley hitch design. Even an 1 1/2" makes a difference. Best to keep it as short as possible, some people even redrilling the bar shaft pin hole to shorten the distance.

doug k
Yes, but the longer bracket length is vertical, not horizontal. So adding 3" isn't going to increase that distance, it will merely drop the chain line down, not extend it. Should still be the exact same distance between the ball and the rear axle as it would with the original bracket. The change would be almost microscopic.
Rich of SCal is offline  
Old 11-19-2012, 12:14 AM   #930
Rivet Master
 
dkottum's Avatar
 
2012 25' Flying Cloud
Battle Lake , Minnesota
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 7,716
Another thing I'm wondering if the chain bracket was lengthened, rather than angled, to get a better chain alignment.

This would change the geometry as related to the weight distribution force needed to transfer weight, wouldn't it? That is, it would be easier to pull slightly upward with the chains, instead of pulling straight back or even downward with a longer bracket than provided by Andersen? Also a longer home-built bracket would seem to have more force applied to it making it even harder to keep from slipping, and applying more force on the urethane bushings?

My experience with modifications such as this has been that it can introduce unexpected problems while trying to solve another. I would suggest staying with the original design as much as possible. Let Andersen experiment with improvements that may or may not be needed. For us it has worked very well as designed.

doug k
dkottum is offline  
Old 11-19-2012, 04:56 AM   #931
2 Rivet Member
 
2013 25' Flying Cloud
san mateo , California
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by AWCHIEF View Post
That is what I thought. I also think you will find there is good reason why they do not make the bracket round. I now have the new angled brackets and am very happy with the install and angle. The chain is a straight shot to the triangle. I have no new wear on the chain and it no longer binds up in the box. I applaud Andersen for their quick response to the unique mounting problems of Airstream owners.
Did you have to special order the angled bracket and exchanged your old one? This is a concern of mine in ordering from a dealer.
dmand001 is offline  
Old 11-19-2012, 06:13 AM   #932
Rivet Master
 
AWCHIEF's Avatar
 
2006 23' Safari SE
Biloxi , Mississippi
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 8,278
Images: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmand001 View Post
Did you have to special order the angled bracket and exchanged your old one? This is a concern of mine in ordering from a dealer.
Special arrangements were made directly with Andersen, no exchange was necessary. From day one I have only worked directly thru Andersen (Dave and Andrew) no dealer or middleman involved. My original unit was the first one custom made for an Airstream 3 inch frame. My new brackets were made based on my measurements and discussions with Dave and Andrew. Dave has told me that the angled brackets are only coming with systems ordered specifically for Airstreams due to the unique geometry of Airstream trailers. Other brands will still come with the straight brackets.
__________________
MICHAEL

Do you know what a learning experience is? A learning experience is one of those things that says "You know that thing that you just did? Don't do that."
AWCHIEF is offline  
Old 11-19-2012, 08:35 AM   #933
Rivet Master
 
HowieE's Avatar
 
1991 34' Excella
Princeton , New Jersey
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 7,038
Images: 12
OK here are the scale results for my 34 ft trailer and my Ford Excursion. The tests were do with just field adjustments to the Andersen, in that I had removed my original setting achieved by fender measurements and just set the hitch by eye.
The Excursion is a heavily sprung truck and thus transfer of weight to the front axle will be harder than many lighter sprung trucks. None the less these weights clearly indicate that weight has been transferred.

Truck alone

Front axle 4220
Rear axle 4200

Combination
without
Andersen

Front axle 3920
Rear axle 5120


With Andersen

Front axle 4040
Rear axle 5000

In this case the Andersen placed 120 lbs on the front axle. While 180 less the the dry front axle weight it has clearly placed weight forward. Additional weight could be move forward if additional tension was placed on the chains but this produces good driving characteristics for the Excursion.

At the same time the Andersen reduced the rear axle weight by 120 lbs.

I did not weigh the trailer tongue by itself because that would have required a third bass across the scale and disconnecting while on the scale and traffic on the scale was heavy with commercial rigs that day. None the less the weights show transfer to the TV countering those that claim it could not be
__________________
WBCCI 12156 AIR 3144 WACHUNG TAC NJ6
2004 Excursion 4x4
1991 34 ft. Excella +220,000 miles, new laminated flooring, new upholstery, new 3200 lbs axles

HowieE is offline  
Old 11-19-2012, 08:41 AM   #934
Rivet Master
 
HowieE's Avatar
 
1991 34' Excella
Princeton , New Jersey
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 7,038
Images: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich of SCal View Post
Chief is right, That won't work. But I wonder if he could just drill a couple small holes and put in a bolt going through the center of a link. Doesn't seem like it would take much to keep the chain from twisting. The adjustment screw isn't a high torque item.
This would not work because the chain MOVES within the tube when you have changes in elevations adding or lessening the tension on the bushings. While this movement is slight it would cause a hard stop to the chains if the bolt touched the limit of the chain loop in either direction.
__________________
WBCCI 12156 AIR 3144 WACHUNG TAC NJ6
2004 Excursion 4x4
1991 34 ft. Excella +220,000 miles, new laminated flooring, new upholstery, new 3200 lbs axles

HowieE is offline  
Old 11-19-2012, 08:42 AM   #935
Rivet Master
 
AWCHIEF's Avatar
 
2006 23' Safari SE
Biloxi , Mississippi
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 8,278
Images: 33
Howie, Thank you for going to all the trouble of doing this. The proof is now in the numbers for all to see that are willing to believe.
__________________
MICHAEL

Do you know what a learning experience is? A learning experience is one of those things that says "You know that thing that you just did? Don't do that."
AWCHIEF is offline  
Old 11-19-2012, 08:55 AM   #936
Rivet Master
 
HowieE's Avatar
 
1991 34' Excella
Princeton , New Jersey
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 7,038
Images: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by dkottum View Post

This would change the geometry as related to the weight distribution force needed to transfer weight, wouldn't it? That is, it would be easier to pull slightly upward with the chains, instead of pulling straight back or even downward with a longer bracket than provided by Andersen? Also a longer home-built bracket would seem to have more force applied to it making it even harder to keep from slipping, and applying more force on the urethane bushings?

doug k
Your first thought about changing the geometry is correct. It would actually improve thing, in that pulling straight back against the plate, with the chains directly in line with the plate. While this difference would be very slight it can be realized if you look at the vector analysis of the chains position with respect to the plate.

Yes the longer brackets will apply more force to rotate against the frame but that can be compensated for by through bolting the bracket to the frame or an additional set screw at the top.
__________________
WBCCI 12156 AIR 3144 WACHUNG TAC NJ6
2004 Excursion 4x4
1991 34 ft. Excella +220,000 miles, new laminated flooring, new upholstery, new 3200 lbs axles

HowieE is offline  
Old 11-19-2012, 09:32 AM   #937
Rivet Master
 
AWCHIEF's Avatar
 
2006 23' Safari SE
Biloxi , Mississippi
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 8,278
Images: 33
Neil, I must say I really like your choice of a TV for your elegant Airstream. Excellent combination
__________________
MICHAEL

Do you know what a learning experience is? A learning experience is one of those things that says "You know that thing that you just did? Don't do that."
AWCHIEF is offline  
Old 11-19-2012, 10:05 AM   #938
Rivet Master
 
Road Ruler's Avatar
 
Currently Looking...
St. Catharines , South Western Ontario
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 2,367
Images: 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by HowieE View Post
OK here are the scale results for my 34 ft trailer and my Ford Excursion.

Truck alone

Front axle 4220
Rear axle 4200

Combination
without
Andersen

Front axle 3920
Rear axle 5120


With Andersen

Front axle 4040
Rear axle 5000

In this case the Andersen placed 120 lbs on the front axle.

At the same time the Andersen reduced the rear axle weight by 120 lbs.
Numbers are a good thing. Thnxs for posting.

Are you satisfied with this small amount of weight transfer for your every day travels (trailer connected ready to roll)?

The front axle of the EX with the Andersen and trailer attached is still 200lbs lighter than campared with the EX solo.
__________________
Airstreams..... The best towing trailers on the planet!
Road Ruler is offline  
Old 11-19-2012, 10:15 AM   #939
Rivet Master
Airstream Dealer
 
Inland RV Center, In's Avatar
 
Corona , California
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 16,497
Images: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by HowieE View Post
OK here are the scale results for my 34 ft trailer and my Ford Excursion. The tests were do with just field adjustments to the Andersen, in that I had removed my original setting achieved by fender measurements and just set the hitch by eye.
The Excursion is a heavily sprung truck and thus transfer of weight to the front axle will be harder than many lighter sprung trucks. None the less these weights clearly indicate that weight has been transferred.

Truck alone

Front axle 4220
Rear axle 4200

Combination
without
Andersen

Front axle 3920
Rear axle 5120


With Andersen

Front axle 4040
Rear axle 5000

In this case the Andersen placed 120 lbs on the front axle. While 180 less the the dry front axle weight it has clearly placed weight forward. Additional weight could be move forward if additional tension was placed on the chains but this produces good driving characteristics for the Excursion.

At the same time the Andersen reduced the rear axle weight by 120 lbs.

I did not weigh the trailer tongue by itself because that would have required a third bass across the scale and disconnecting while on the scale and traffic on the scale was heavy with commercial rigs that day. None the less the weights show transfer to the TV countering those that claim it could not be
Howie.

The numbers say that your hitch is not doing it's intended job.

A proper hitch, properly installed, and properly adjusted should never ever take weight off the front axle.

Using the weights you posted, the front axle with the trailer and the hitch hooked up, should weigh 4530 and the rear axle should weigh 4510.

You have 620 pounds your dealing with yet you place all of it on the rear axle plus an additional 180 pounds you removed from the front axle.

That says the hitch is doing very little.

Not faulting the hitch, but perhaps the adjustment needs further attention.

Andy
Inland RV Center, In is offline  
Old 11-19-2012, 10:17 AM   #940
Site Team
 
azflycaster's Avatar

 
2002 25' Safari
Dewey , Arizona
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 13,290
Images: 62
Blog Entries: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by HowieE View Post
Truck alone

Front axle 4220
Rear axle 4200

Combination
without
Andersen

Front axle 3920
Rear axle 5120


With Andersen

Front axle 4040
Rear axle 5000
Two things jump out at me looking at these numbers.
  1. The weight of your TV only increased by 620 lbs when the trailer was attached with no wd. I would have expected that number to be higher with a 34 footer.
  2. The total weight of the TV did not change when the wd was applied. The hitch did transfer some weight from the rear to the front axle, but none was transferred back to the trailer.
It would be interesting to see if weight would be transferred to the trailer if the wd was adjusted with more tension on the chains.
__________________

__________________

Richard

Wally Byam Airstream Club 7513
azflycaster is online now  
Closed Thread


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by the Airstream, Inc. or any of its affiliates. Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:39 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.