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Old 09-08-2012, 11:48 AM   #477
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Originally Posted by idroba View Post
I have reported a creaking sound and have isolated that to the way the chains go into the frame brackets. On inspection I have found some wear on the chains there, and have put a small amount of lube on the tubes and chains at that point.
A very interesting point. I just went out and looked. The ware is from the movement caused while the bushings are compressed and relaxed do to bumps in the road and "thank you mams" in the road, small hills and valleys.

I have to say that the picture show more ware than I would have expected for the time I have had my hitch, then again I live in New Jersey and travel a lot on Pa. 2 states that compete against I 10 in LA. for the worst roads in the nation.

From what I have seen to date this looks like the point of eventual failure. Not that it will be a catastrophic failure, the bottom of the bracket will just start to tear and produce a sharp edge. Other than lube I do not see a solution. If the tube on the bracket was changed to align with the chain that would put the nuts end of the screw too close to the frame for convenient access.
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Old 09-08-2012, 12:37 PM   #478
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HowieE View Post
A very interesting point. I just went out and looked. The ware is from the movement caused while the bushings are compressed and relaxed do to bumps in the road and "thank you mams" in the road, small hills and valleys.

I have to say that the picture show more ware than I would have expected for the time I have had my hitch, then again I live in New Jersey and travel a lot on Pa. 2 states that compete against I 10 in LA. for the worst roads in the nation.

From what I have seen to date this looks like the point of eventual failure. Not that it will be a catastrophic failure, the bottom of the bracket will just start to tear and produce a sharp edge. Other than lube I do not see a solution. If the tube on the bracket was changed to align with the chain that would put the nuts end of the screw too close to the frame for convenient access.

This is interesting to me since I am seriously considering getting one of these hitches. I did notice in a previously posted photo(post #463) that these brackets were not in line with the chain pull and thought that it didn't look good. So my question is are these brackets adjustable for angle when they are mounted on the frame rails of the trailer?

Thanks,
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Old 09-08-2012, 12:56 PM   #479
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Originally Posted by crisen View Post
...I did notice in a previously posted photo(post #463) that these brackets were not in line with the chain pull and thought that it didn't look good. Thanks,
Exactly. I just had my Andersen hitch installed yesterday and the chains do not touch the brackets. I'm going on a trip next weekend and when I hitch it up, I'll take a picture and post it.
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Old 09-08-2012, 01:06 PM   #480
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Originally Posted by Mike91208 View Post
Exactly. I just had my Andersen hitch installed yesterday and the chains do not touch the brackets. They are straight and parallel to the frame. I'm going on a trip next weekend and when I hitch it up, I'll take a picture and post it.
Please take a picture of your brackets and post it now if possible.
I can't not envision any way the chains could ever run parallel to the frame. The distance from the top of the frame to the chains and from the top of the framel to the triangular plate are different thus precluding the chains to be parallel to the frame.
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Old 09-08-2012, 01:11 PM   #481
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LOL! It's not in my backyard - and I'd have to hitch it up to get a realistic pic - but I'll try soon!

P.S., note I edited my original post and took the 'parallel' phrase out - but compared #463 post, it's far more straight.
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Old 09-08-2012, 01:16 PM   #482
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Originally Posted by Bill M. View Post
"The simplest conceivable means of doing this would be by simply lifting straight up on the ball with 400 pounds of upward pull. Of course, that isn't how a hitch works."

You sure about this? Looks to me like the conventional hitch bars do lift up on the ball and pull down on the axle. Is there a vertical component in the Anderson also?
Bill-
A conventional WD hitch uses a lever principle to generate torque which rotates the ball about its center. My comment above was to imagine grabbing the ball and lifting "straight up." It was a rhetorical comment to suggest the simplest motion possible to shift weight. And as I said, hitches don't do that. Sorry for the confusion.
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Old 09-08-2012, 01:28 PM   #483
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mstephens,

Just curious, do you intend on calling Andersen and asking them for a drawing/explanation of the physics of their hitch design to share with us or will you simply continue posting conjecture?
I don't think I have posted any conjecture at all. I posted a simple explanation of the hitch forces.

If I was to get interested in using this hitch, I would ask them for detailed specs on the chain parts. It's no less important than the specs on a tire. Maybe they would provide them, maybe not. I don't know. What I do know is they provide very little technically useful information on the web site.

I have to say fellas, I am a bit taken aback by the defensiveness of most posts regarding my comments. I really don't get it. I would have this kind of discussion about a new fan, or a refrigerator, or a stereo, or a tire. Take it a part, see how it ticks, see what's good, what's not. That's what engineers do. Apparently this is very threatening in some ways to many people. Sorry you all take it so personally, but I can't see as I have done anything impolite of anything to cause actual offense to anyone. None was intended, you can be sure of that.

If you are offended Sierrafan by my postings on the hitch, you have my apologies.
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Old 09-08-2012, 01:42 PM   #484
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mstephens View Post
Sample Math Using the Anderson Hitch

Just as a simple means of making rough calculations, if you know a few of the distances and the tongue weight, it would look like this.

If the distance from TV front axle center to ball center is 160".
And, the distance from center of ball to center of chain plate is 8".
The lever ratio to develop torque around the ball center would be 160/8 = 20:1

If you have a 800 pound tongue.
And, you want to shift 400 pounds of that on the front TV axle, you will need to generate a 400 pound rotational force at the center of the ball in the counter-clockwise direction.

The simplest conceivable means of doing this would be by simply lifting straight up on the ball with 400 pounds of upward pull. Of course, that isn't how a hitch works.

So, using the Anderson, this 400 pound torque force must be generated by pulling back horizontally on the chains to create torque around the ball center. Since the lever ratio is 20:1, it takes 20 x 400 pounds, or 8,000 pounds of pull on those chains to get the 400 pound rotational force around the ball. There are two chains, so each chain must have 4,000 pounds of strain in the static mode to get 400 pounds shifted from the rear axle to the front axle of the TV.

Specs on various chains can be found here.Gr 40 Windlass Anchor Chain

Just on appearances - - I don't like the idea that in this system, the full load strain (4,000 pounds in the example) is being carried through the very smallest parts. Those small parts are the D-link bolt and the nut on the back of the chain pull. By way of comparison, the WD bar system puts all the load forces on the heaviest members of the system - the bars and L-bracket feet.

I am not saying it doesn't work. Obviously the users report good results. I am only saying that the price of getting the convenience seems to be this idea of putting huge strain on small parts. The D-link bolt seems to fit loosely in that chain plate.
yep the chain link would have snapped a long time ago.
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Old 09-08-2012, 01:53 PM   #485
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Some times it is interesting to look at a members profile to get an indication of their interests and direction.

I only wish that Thanks offered to a member could be viewed by other than the member.
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Old 09-08-2012, 02:11 PM   #486
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yep the chain link would have snapped a long time ago.
Here's a very instructive little case that demonstrates how design flaws express themselves in failure - - which is to say, "unexpectedly." I35W Bridge

The bridge was chock-a-block with carloads of smiling people at the time. Kind of like that row of laughing cartoon faces you have typed in there. Happy as clams, and utterly unaware that a design flaw from some 45 years earlier would suddenly cause a catastrophe.

No sir, I am not saying, suggesting or conjecturing that your chains will fail. I am simply pointing out that laughing at good luck doesn't improve the design of anything.

Nice to see people with a good sense of humor about these things! I am not much of a cartoonist, but just imagine a big smiling face (___here___).
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Old 09-08-2012, 02:34 PM   #487
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Originally Posted by HowieE View Post
A very interesting point. I just went out and looked. The ware is from the movement caused while the bushings are compressed and relaxed do to bumps in the road and "thank you mams" in the road, small hills and valleys.
(snip)
From what I have seen to date this looks like the point of eventual failure. Not that it will be a catastrophic failure, the bottom of the bracket will just start to tear and produce a sharp edge. Other than lube I do not see a solution. If the tube on the bracket was changed to align with the chain that would put the nuts end of the screw too close to the frame for convenient access.
It would seem to me that one of two solutions are possible here:

1. The square end of the frame bracket facing the triangular plate could be flared so the chains could slide in and out under load the 1/4 of an inch or so they do as the bushing compresses and expands durring travel. That and some minor amount of grease might do the trick.

2. the Acme screw could be made longer and some other way devised to make it unable to rotate. The method now used to prevent screw rotation is placing the first welded on chain link at a diagonal in the tube. Then the chain links would not scuff in the tube, the way they do now, as they would not even be in the tube. The links themselves don't seem to wear where they touch each other, just when confined in the tube.

As I have stated repeatedly, we are all learning about this hitch, users and manufacturer. The next generation will have some of the experiences included in the re design. In the mean while, I see no significant reason that anyone who is interested in this hitch should hesitate purchasing one now.
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Old 09-08-2012, 02:39 PM   #488
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Come on Stephen your point has been made. While it appears it has not been accepted by the countering posts here it may have influenced some readers and maybe some future reader to not buy an Andersen hitch.

We are openly discussing actual usage of and observed conditions, several of which have been noted, relating to the hitch.

Yes as Chicken Little predicted the sky may fall in time and others may see that coming and so note it but continual cluttering of the tread won't serve any additional purpose.
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Old 09-08-2012, 02:50 PM   #489
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike91208 View Post
P.S., note I edited my original post and took the 'parallel' phrase out - but compared #463 post, it's far more straight.
Thanks for the update.

I would assume then that your brackets are perpendicular to the frame thus producing the lesser angle. If so please note and post if the bracket bolts rotate about the set screw and come to rest on the frame after traveling as this has been one observation posted. The top bolt is most likely to show this touching to the frame.
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Old 09-08-2012, 03:38 PM   #490
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Originally Posted by HowieE View Post
Come on Stephen your point has been made. While it appears it has not been accepted by the countering posts here it may have influenced some readers and maybe some future reader to not buy an Andersen hitch.

We are openly discussing actual usage of and observed conditions, several of which have been noted, relating to the hitch.

Yes as Chicken Little predicted the sky may fall in time and others may see that coming and so note it but continual cluttering of the tread won't serve any additional purpose.
I'd like to understand this. Are you a salesman for these hitches? It sounds like your interest here is just selling these hitches. Is this a private thread? I assumed it was a public thread like the others. Maybe I misunderstood. Is this an "Anderson Company Sponsored Thread?"

I am new. But usually threads in such forums are public, and people are not told to "stop cluttering" the thread with their comments.

I see some people who identify themselves as "commercial members." I assume that's so people know they have a financial interest in what they are promoting. Yours doesn't say commercial, so I assume you are just a forum member like me, right? Can you tell me by what rule I am not allowed to post my thoughts here about the hitch? I don't want to run afoul of any rules.

I do understand that you don't like my comments. But, I didn't know that I wasn't allowed to make them. Can you be more specific about that?
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