The Andersen WD Hitch User Thread

[mstephens]

For The Sake of Clarity

I gave in a few posts yesterday the method by which any person with this hitch can find the strain force on their chains. That method is this:

1. Measure the two distances on your rig as I described
2. Divide the big number by the little number to get the leverage ratio
3. Determine how much weight transfer (in pounds) your hitch has produced, and multiply that by the leverage ratio. That is the strain on the two chains.
4. Divide that number by 2 to get the strain on each chain.

That is a METHOD. It is not an answer in and of itself.



If someone believes that method is wrong, I am obviously open to hear how it is wrong.

[purman]

Originally Posted by mstephens

Just for the record, I did send Anderson a request for some technical specifications.

I would try to call, I never got an email back from them when I sent one..

Again I think if people want to talk numbers it should be started on a different thread. Thats not what this thread was started for.

[HowieE]

Originally Posted by ROBERTSUNRUS

I also believe that the chain brackets could/should be re-designed too. I would want the Acme threaded shaft to be longer and run in a round tube, pointed downward towards the triangle plate. [straight shot] There should be a guide so the shaft wouldn't turn and no part of the chain would enter the bracket. Questionable whether the chains and connecting links should be stronger/larger.

Yes this issue will have to be addressed as soon as Andersen starts getting some real user info. The force on the leading edge of the bracket is significant and thus abnormal ware will occur.

I will more than likely consider cutting the tubes off and realigning them to point directly at the plate. As mentioned before I see the access to the nuts, clearance to the frame, as a limiting factor to this approach. Most likely will not do this until after I return from my trip to the Can Opener.

Andersen is not a Deere or Catipillar size or type of company thus they can and have thought out side the box. The concepts they come up with while great may require some field suggested modifications.

[purman]

So after 3000 miles I decided I needed to change the install of my Andersen hitch.

When I went to put it on the first time, my propane tank holder was in the way of the brackets. The bracket bolts would have also hit my propane tank and rubbed if I had put it where it needed to go..

So, per the instructions I cut out a few links to move it forward so the propane tanks wouldn't be an issue..
See top two pictures.

Well They were still and issue, and I had paint wear off one of the tanks where the bolt hit it..

So I decide to move them back on the frame. To get an extra 1/2" or so I needed I put a 3000# chain link in and the two links left from cutting out 3 links in the beginning. I also had only 1 thread showing verses the 2 threads on the bolt as Andersen recommends before tightening the bolts up.. I also had to cut through the bottom of the propane tank holder. Not a big deal, but without the extra length it was to close the the corner weld on it.

So now the bolts clear the tank and it shouldn't be an issue anymore...

The next issue,(and I will be sending pictures to Andersen) is the chain wear.
This occurs (i believe) when the bottom of the bracket moves forward on the frame. The locking nut is not enough to hold it in place. I even drill a slight dimples in the frame for it to go in, and it still moved. Andersen recommends drilling a hole all the way through the frame, or welding the bracket. I don't want a hole in my frame if I don't have to.

When the bottom moves forward the chain comes out at a sharper down angle and the chain moves back on forth when the rubber shock absorbs bumps in the road. If this continues to happen I think the chain may become weak enough to brake.

My driver side bracket moved more than my passenger side did, and has more wear on it. Thus my conclusion of the wear coming from the angle on the bracket when it moves forward.

Since my bracket now goes through my propane bracket it can't move forward. But I still may run a weld down it latter. It's not like my propane bracket needs that kind of stress on it.

[sierrafun]

Originally Posted by mstephens

Just for the record, I did send Anderson a request for some technical specifications.

Hi Mstephens,

I'm glad to hear that you've requested some technical specifications from Andersen. I look forward to your sharing this information with us.

Many of us on this thread are shopping for a good light hitch and with your engineering background you could really help those of us who are interested in this hitch decipher all the technical data.

I look forward to hearing what they say and what you make of all the technical information they provide

[dkottum]

Perhaps we need two threads, one that posts only actual user experience and not cluttered with engineering wit and wisdom, and one cluttered with engineering wit and wisdom.

This thread had good intentions . . .

doug k

[ROBERTSUNRUS]

Hi, Jason. Thank You for posting some nice close up pictures for us to see.

Hi, Doug. I don't think we need two threads since it is all related to the Andersen hitch. There are already way too many separate threads, on this forum, that should have been combined into one.

I think Andersen has a great idea with this hitch design and will probably make a few minor changes to perfect it. I hope they are reading this thread as they were participating on the Forest River forum.

[idroba]

Originally Posted by rp709

Do you Anderson hitch users experience any 'push' that is noticeable when being passed by a big rig? I am interested in details such as whether you can feel it or not and, or, do you have to make steering corrections? With my former Hensley and a GMC 2500HD with a Safari 28, there was absolutely no sensation of being passed. I am considering the ProPride but would go with the Anderson if I can be convinced I won't notice this phenomenon. Thanks.

I am off on a trip right now, so did not respond immediately to your question. In my case, 20' Argosy, 700 # tongue weight, Jeep Grand Cherokee tow vehicle, the answer is no, no push no pull, no sway no sensation of anything when trucks pass or I pass them on the Interstates at 70 mph. Larger rigs, with lower tongue weights may have different feelings. The 22' rear door Argosy I just took to Wyoming (with an Andersen) also had no push sensations or cross wind sensitivity, but did have a slight bit of oversteer feeling. It also was not set up quite right, towing high in the front.

[idroba]

With respect to the chain and tube wear on the frame bracket on the Andersen: I am off on a trip right now. I lubed the chain and bracket tube with a small amount of white grease prior to leaving. I am only 125 mile out but the creaking noises I have had are gone and the rig is solid and very nice again.

I don't think that any re-alignment of the tubes will change much. They need either grease at that point, or a flare, or a re design to keep the chain from sliding in the tube at all. That would mean a longer acme screw, and some way to keep it from turning when the big nuts are tightened. To keep the original greaseless nature of the hitch, my vote would be for a re design of the frame brackets to eliminate the chain in tube situation at all.

But, for now, I would say to anyone with an Andersen hitch, lube the chain/tube setup with some white grease. Not much is needed, but it will do wonders for the wear points that are there as designed.

I will report more as the trip progresses over the next few days.

[Kosm1o]

I see wear on my chain as well. I think a champher on the inside of the tube will probably fix it.

[mstephens]

If people are experiencing the brackets twisting on the frame, it is because the brackets are designed for vertical force, not horizontal. One way to improve this condition is to use a bracket designed for horizontal forces that will not twist over the A-frame. Such a bracket sketch is included here. The main feature is a "stop" on top and bottom that prevents the bracket from twisting on he frame as the chain tension is increased. This also prevents the bracket from sliding forward on the A-frame.

These are very simple parts that can be made quickly by any fabricator.

[purman]

Originally Posted by mstephens

If people are experiencing the brackets twisting on the frame, it is because the brackets are designed for vertical force, not horizontal. One way to improve this condition is to use a bracket designed for horizontal forces that will not twist over the A-frame. Such a bracket sketch is included here. The main feature is a "stop" on top and bottom that prevents the bracket from twisting on he frame as the chain tension is increased. This also prevents the bracket from sliding forward on the A-frame.

These are very simple parts that can be made quickly by any fabricator.

This is a good idea, and eliminates drilling holes or welding. I will have to see If i can find a piece of channel iron to fit.

Thanks

[dkottum]

My Equal-I-Zer has similar frame brackets. If you tighten the upper and lower bolts too much they will bow slightly so that they only make good contact at the edges of the frame. They would slip during use.

I took them off and noticed the bow, so I reversed them and tightened them enough to straighten but not bow in the opposite direction. This preset bow from the first install then served to grip the frame strongly along its full width, and has not slipped in three years use.

Could this be a problem when installing the Andersen frame brackets, and a possible solution?

doug k

[dkottum]

Originally Posted by mstephens

If people are experiencing the brackets twisting on the frame, it is because the brackets are designed for vertical force, not horizontal. One way to improve this condition is to use a bracket designed for horizontal forces that will not twist over the A-frame. Such a bracket sketch is included here. The main feature is a "stop" on top and bottom that prevents the bracket from twisting on he frame as the chain tension is increased. This also prevents the bracket from sliding forward on the A-frame.

These are very simple parts that can be made quickly by any fabricator.

A few years ago there was a post where someone made similar spacers to keep the bolts on an Equal-I-zer from being overtightened and bowing the brackets, but the spacers prevented tightening the bolts enough for the brackets to grip the frame.

doug k

[ROBERTSUNRUS]

Originally Posted by dkottum

A few years ago there was a post where someone made similar spacers to keep the bolts on an Equal-I-zer from being overtightened and bowing the brackets, but the spacers prevented tightening the bolts enough for the brackets to grip the frame.

doug k

Hi, I don't know if you were referring to my modification, or someone elses. I used 1/2" copper tubing on the top bolt and on the additional third bolt. Copper tubing allows for a little crush. My brackets have not slipped, ever since this was done, many years ago. This may or may not work with the Andersen hitch.

[mstephens]

I consider the Equalizer brackets to be sub-optimal also. But for a different reason than the Anderson. The EQ is ill-fitting, too soft, and suffers crushing from bolt tension. The Anderson suffers by not being designed to be pulled horizontally. The modification I sketched solves both problems, but OF COURSE the dimensions of the "stop" have to be based on correctly measuring the A-frame thickness. There is no "generic size."

Just in general, these sloppy fitting brackets are a generic problem with systems designed for "universal" application. As we used to say, "Universal means - fits nothing correctly." I have seen more bent up and twisted brackets on hitches than good ones. People don't usually want to spend a lot for a hitch, so they get exactly what they pay for.

Any decent sized town or city has a fabricator that can makes these ultra simple parts. This is not bio-chemistry, or brain surgery. It is the most basic and elementary metal fabricating that an apprentice can make. Cut, bend, drill, temper. It doesn't get easier than that.

DISCLAIMER: These are not catastrophic problems, and I am not faulting any manufacturer. And, I have no financial interests in hitches or hitch companies. These are suggestions for people who care to improve their systems and have the time, patience, money and interest to do so. Anyone can have a high performance set of brackets made and purchase improved SAE or ASTM rated hardware. For those who don't care, don't pay any attention to any of this. It's a completely optional pursuit.

[mstephens]

Robertsunrus - -
That's nice looking work there. Did you fab them, or have them done?

[ROBERTSUNRUS]

Originally Posted by mstephens

Robertsunrus - -
That's nice looking work there. Did you fab them, or have them done?

Hi, I just used a tubing cutter on some 1/2" copper tubing that I had in my garage. By using the third bolt with my spacer. you can really torque the second bolt [the one just under the frame] without bowing the brackets. The top bolt spacer will help prevent bowing too. [the brackets are Equal-i-zer factory parts]

[idroba]

I have not had any problems with my frame brackets slipping, the photos I posted were the way I installed them. But the chain rubbing inside the square tube is the problem that I think needs to be solved.

[Kosm1o]

The "slipping" of the bracket is definitely a problem , particularly if you have a heavy tongue weight to distribute. I drilled a 3/8" hole through the bracket and frame to prevent this. After 5,000 miles I removed them to see if the force pulling on the chains had any effect of the integrity of the bolts. They came out exactly as I installed them, so they are big enough to do the job. I found this to be superior to the set screws provided which slipped .
As to the chain wearing on the square tube, yes, mine have too. I am going to champher the bottom of the tube. I am betting that this will will stop the wear.
I have no experience with PP or Hensley, but this hitch , despite these bracket problems, is superior to the Equalizer in both set up and operation.