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Old 08-01-2012, 08:40 PM   #295
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Originally Posted by AWCHIEF View Post
As I have said before, I have never used any other brand WD hitch. I base all my opinions of real world use of the Andersen WD hitch.

And to the other number cruncher: I don't need any stinking numbers to prove to me that it works as advertised. The proof is in the ride quality as far as I am concerned. If you keep insisting on having numbers why don't you put up your own cash and do it yourself instead of insisting that others do the work for you.
Then it would be a different thread, wouldn't it? Would need a different title altogether. Not all-encompassing by any means, but narrowly based on opinion. Conjecture. Ask the moderators to change the title to one which only offers testimonials. Anecdote. Which is then about the person and their background of experience (or lack thereof) and not about a piece of equipment. Personal, verus impersonal. Which those interested in the performance of the equipment can safely ignore as it would offer no substance.

As this is a forum on a brand of TT, and this subforum on equipment used on that brand (among others), it is about the equipment performance. Not about the persons involved for the title as given.

.
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Old 08-01-2012, 09:01 PM   #296
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So dramatic. Have you even read the OP? Not going to bother to repeat it for you. Please feel free to ignore anything you wish.
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Old 08-06-2012, 09:51 AM   #297
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Finally got a little towing in this weekend with the new F150. Hitched up and carried the trailer 12 miles to the dealership to have a little work done. Short trip but so far very good impression. Hardly even knew the Airstream was back there. It only weights about 2500 lbs and not a challenge at all for the Ecoboost.
Of course I had to start from scratch with the Andersen WD hitch system set up. Dropped the ball down as low as I could with the 4 inch shank and it is just a tad high. I think that will be corrected when I put some weight in the back of truck. Should balance out just about right then.
Front wheel well height went up 1 3/4 inch after I put the weight on the ball. Went thru the whole set up process and was able to get the front back to within 1/4 of unhitched height showing 5 threads. Disconnect went well with taking the weight off the ball and the plate came right off without having to slacken the chain any. That was on a bit of a slope, will see how the reconnect goes when I go back for the trailer in a few days. I will do have to do a little fine tuning after loading the truck and trailer for camping.
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Old 08-06-2012, 10:33 AM   #298
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Originally Posted by REDNAX View Post
I said early in this tread that the Andersen will be a "Ha Ha" killer and little has been presented to change that.

A nice lightweight TT and small or medium TV, thus far the Andersen looks good with the little we've seen. But where are the numbers for a heavy TV & heavy TT? Where is the restoration of FA laden/unhitched value and TW distributed to TT axles as has been explored with every other hitch type both here and at RV.net?
.
While I do not expect this to satisfy your quest for numbers I expect it will demonstrate to those less a fixed that the Andersen Hitch does in fact produce the same WD results.

I have and tow with one of the heaviest combinations available to the Airstream community. A Ford diesel Excursion an a 34ft trailer total weight 17,720 lbs. There is only one Airstream, the 34 slide out, that is heaver.

My last scale ticket shows 4,280 lbs on the drive axle, 4.880 on the driving axle, and 8560 on the trailer axles. These readings were taken while I was using a Reese Straight Line Hitch that gave a drop of about 1/4 in the the front fender of the when hitched and a 1/2 drop to the rear fender. Yes I do not haven a scale ticket for the truck empty, but even a number cruncher can agree that weight had to have been placed on the front axle to drop it 1/4 in when hitched.

When I set up the Andersen I adjusted it to give the same drop to the front axle. Now if you can give me a reason not to believe the Andersen has not distributed weight I might consider going to the scales for a set of empty weights.

Keep in mind when reviewing my measurements that the Excursion has a very heavy spring pack and thus drops are going to be much less than trucks with lighter spring packs.

I reiterate my earlier statement "this is going to be a Ha Ha killer"
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Old 08-06-2012, 11:31 AM   #299
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HowieE is indeed a heavyweight here & on the road...when he speaks we all 'lean in' to listen...(remember those old TV ads?).. Ha ha

Anyone want to trade my two year old 10k Equal-izer for a new Anderson...? I'm ready to switch!...
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Old 08-07-2012, 04:48 PM   #300
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Old 08-07-2012, 05:44 PM   #301
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First of all I have not interest in any hitch company I just know what we have used over the last 43 years on thousands of combinations. I am pretty aware of the strengths and Sometimes the devil you know.... I am pretty leary about recomending something I have not tried myself rather extensively. For example we put 15000 miles on two Hensley's before we ever installed one for a customer.

I should likely buy an Anderson to try out. It is just over the years I have bought a lot of hitches that I wound up sitting in the corner after some testing. With the Anderson I just can't seem to make sence of it when I do the math, maybe I am missing something.

Take the 34' & Excursion example. To push the front axle of an Excursion down 1/4" requires about 200 pounds of weight. The front axle is just over 16' from the ball that means the hitch needs to exert 3200 pounds of torque on the reciever to transfer that weight. Likely 400 pounds is being transfered to the excursion's rear axle 5' away so that will take another 2000 pounds of torque for a total of 5200 ft pounds of torque on the receiver.

To leverage that torque we have the distance between the ball and the chain attachment on the bottom of the ball mount Likely about 9". So the chains have to pull back with a force of just under 7000 pounds to create the necessary leverage. with that force the bolt through the clevis pin is going to bend and I think the links would also stretch.

We occasionally break a larger link on a conventional torsion bar chain which has 28" of leverage to work with. I don't think the puck that slides up and down in the rear of the coupler was designed to operate with 7000 pounds of force against it. take a good look under your coupler this is not a particularly robust area. Again it might be fine but what happens after 50,000 miles? Underbraking your trailer should still be pulling on the tow vehicle and even without it is a short duration force not a constant.

One other element is that this hitch will always transfer weight in the direction the trailer is pointing. A conventional weight distribution hitch set up properly will always transfer weight to the front wheels of the tow vehicle instead of the outside rear wheel in a turn.

On the other hand I like the placement of the friction pad and the light weight for hooking up and disconnecting.

Just to clarify my concern.

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Old 08-07-2012, 07:29 PM   #302
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Andy

Your first assumption is pretty close but the math to get it is not. Yes I add about 175 lbs to the front axle with a Reese and Andersen hitch when the front end drops about 1/4 in.

Your assumption that raw torque is all that is at work is not correct. All a WD hitch does is Distribute the Tongue Weight between the front axle of the TV and the Trailer axles. It is greatly assisted by natural return force of the rear springs of the TV. It is not a Moment Arm analysis as you have described.

Keep in mind that the heaver bars of WD hitches only go up to 1,400 lbs. To produce this displacement of the front axle through torque applied at the receiver they would have to be I beams the size of the truck frame and the rear axle would have to be chained down to the ground.

On a very lightly suspended TV in a very sharp turn any WD hitch might cause measurable additional deflection on the outer side of the TV.
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Old 08-07-2012, 07:57 PM   #303
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Andrew: The Andersen is different, for sure. I hope you get to try one out and see what you think of it in person.

I can't see that the torque on the receiver on the TV is any different from that in a conventional WD hitch. Both transfer weight by torquing the receiver and twisting (lifting) the shank of the stinger. I don't see it different on the Andersen. The Andersen twists the entire ball assembly which transfers to the stinger shank to provide the weight transfer. A conventional WD hitch twists the stinger shank due to a lever arm not any longer than that provided by the Andersen, that is maybe 8 or 9 inches maximum. The twist is provided not by the length of the spring bar arms, but by the short difference in height from the top of the bent bar or the trunion height. Andersen uses a different method, but to transfer the same weight, both must torque the TV receiver the same.

Those of us who have used the Andersen have noted no chain stretching, no bending of the clevis pin bolt. In fact Andersen suggests you leave it a quarter of a turn loose so it does not become stuck if you ever want to take it apart. After 2500 miles of towing, the pin bolt on mine turns freely and easily in it's threads.

The urethane bushings compress about 1/4 inch when set up to tow. I guess there must be some figures somewhere that tell how much pressure they must encounter to compress that dimension, but I sure don't know what it is. That would tell you the tension on the chains.

Due to general wear and stress cracks in my 37 year old coupler that I found when I first installed the Andersen (after de greasing the coupler, i saw the stress cracks on the inner cup of the Atwood coupler) I had my coupler replaced. I would bet there are many out there which might have the same issue, if inspected carefully. However, I towed my first 250 to 400 miles on the old coupler with the new Andersen, and saw no danger in doing it. My personal feeling is that the coupler is equally strong in all directions, and since the Andersen puts very little movement on the coupler parts there actually might be less wear on the rear locking mechanism than with a conventional WD hitch. But I have no way to prove it one way or the other.

I feel, but again cannot prove it with any numbers that the stability I note with the Andersen is a result of all the forces being in one vertical line, through the center of the ball and extended ball shank. On a conventional WD hitch, there is a side to side force caused by the push and pull of the spring bars, each offset two to three inches from the ball centerline. That sideways push from one or the other spring bar, or both in combination, has the effect of making the spring bars twist the TV with a side pressure, which is not present on the Andersen. I emphasize that this is speculation on my part. I do know it is a very stable towing combination.

You have gained a lot of respect in the towing business. I hope you get a chance to try the Andersen in person and see what you think. So far, those of us who have used it have run into no issues of any consequence. Howie E has a big 34' rig, I have a smaller 20' one, we are both happy. Something must be right.
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Old 08-07-2012, 08:15 PM   #304
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Andrew, I would respectfully suggest that you and anyone else that have concerns give Andersen a call. They are very willing to discuss any and all aspects of the hitch with anyone that calls. They have done extensive testing and can supply many of the numbers that some here keep demanding. I am not an engineer and personally could care less about the numbers game. I did not really understand much of the technical information that passed to me when I was shopping for and setting my hitch up.
Buy one and give it a try. They are fully guaranteed and can be returned for full refund if the customer is not fully satisfied. Believe it or not they tell me that not one unit has ever been returned. I personally have never heard or read one negative comment from anyone that has actual real world experience with the Andersen WD hitch system.
I think if you were willing to consider both of these suggestions you concerns would be alleviated.
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Old 08-07-2012, 09:08 PM   #305
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I am pretty sure my torque calculations are correct they are simply a function of distance and weight transfered, spring rate actually has nothing to do with it. I have checked them with a strain gauge and they calculate out the same.

A conventional hitch transfers weight to the front wheels because of the reward angle of the ball mount. In a turn the bar on the inside of the turn rapidly looses pressure but the one on the outside which is pointing towards the front wheels rapidly increases in pressure. The net effect is in turns weight continues to be transfered to the front suspension. If the pivot point is 90 degrees to the ground then pressure is transfered ot the outside rear tire. Again a function of direction and distance nothing to do with spring rates.

I am intriqued enough to try one.

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Old 08-07-2012, 10:03 PM   #306
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Andy

I would have to agree with you if there were no trailer involved and the rear axle was in fact the fulcrum around which the force was applied. Then yes it would be a simple force times distance on one side of the axle equaling force time distance on the other.

Leave us not try and convince one another as it has been over 50 years since my mechanical engineering classes.

As you mention get one and all will be answered. I trust after that you will never sell another Reese. If the Andersen ever fail like this and the many other Reese failures I have had I may consider coming back
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Old 08-07-2012, 11:32 PM   #307
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2500 miles and a few to go till home,and still in loving the simplicity of the thing. Not a problem..
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Old 08-08-2012, 01:53 PM   #308
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With several trips under our belt, including returning now from a 2000 miler, we are still very pleased with ours.
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