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Old 11-03-2013, 10:08 PM   #2353
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Originally Posted by HowieE View Post
Seams the younger members are not old enough to remember that the controversy of the OHV engine took place when Ford introduced it into the Ford line in 1955. Yes the Lincoln had it in 53 and the higher GM lines had it before 55, but not many were racing the Lincolns, Olds, and Buicks then

And yes I was there.
Hi, sorry to disagree with you, but Ford started overhead valve inline sixes in 1952 and the 239" Ford V-8 and 256" Mercury V-8 in 1954. The 317" Lincoln was in 1952.
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Old 11-04-2013, 07:05 AM   #2354
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rendrag View Post
Correct, but it is a component to be considered when sizing and selecting a hitch. Yes? No?

Example, a late model GM 2500HD with a fairly stiff rear suspension "requires" no FALR. Switch out those rear springs with those from a 1500, and the picture changes. Get out the WD hitch then. At least that is what GM says. Look at the whole picture, not just the part that makes the Andersen appear bad.
It's neither the tow vehicle nor its components that "makes the Andersen appear bad".

The issue currently being discussed is the Andersen's inability to transfer sufficient load for some tongue weight and vehicle combinations.
It is the inability to transfer sufficient load that "makes the Andersen appear bad".

The inability to transfer sufficient load is not a result of TV suspension stiffness.

The inability to transfer sufficient load is a result of the relatively small amount of pitch-axis torque that the Andersen WDH is able to generate.

Ron
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Old 11-04-2013, 07:12 AM   #2355
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveH View Post
This all sounds to me like gobleygook for you need a heavy duty tow vehicle to use an Andersen WD hitch with a heavy trailer because the hitch will not transfer the weight properly.
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Originally Posted by Ron Gratz View Post
It doesn't just sound like gobbledygook -- it is gobbledygook.

SteveH is 100% correct. snip................

The stiffness of the TV's suspension has nothing to do with load transfer.

Ron


So is it gobble-d-gook or a thesis?

I admit I've never heard of soft springs hindering weight transfer.
If you have returned the steering axle weight and/or height seems to me you have properly set-up your WD.

For me the question of effectiveness relates to what I see.
A chain exerting tension on a lever with little purchase does not seem as effective as a 3' bar under easily adjusted stress.

The method of sway control....friction on a very limited area of the hitch ball mount, adjusted by the same chain tension.
A light single axle trailer may be more susceptible to sway but need less WD.
How is it possible to increase sway control without effecting WD?

On our 22 Safari I improved sway control by increasing friction area with a second slide.

An inquisitive old mind seeks to understand.

Bob
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Old 11-04-2013, 08:06 AM   #2356
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS View Post


So is it gobble-d-gook or a thesis?

I admit I've never heard of soft springs hindering weight transfer.
If you have returned the steering axle weight and/or height seems to me you have properly set-up your WD.

For me the question of effectiveness relates to what I see.
A chain exerting tension on a lever with little purchase does not seem as effective as a 3' bar under easily adjusted stress.

The method of sway control....friction on a very limited area of the hitch ball mount, adjusted by the same chain tension.
A light single axle trailer may be more susceptible to sway but need less WD.
How is it possible to increase sway control without effecting WD?

On our 22 Safari I improved sway control by increasing friction area with a second slide.

An inquisitive old mind seeks to understand.

Bob
Bob,

About the sway control....I have and use one of the Andersen WD hitches, but with a 17' Casita, and usually tow it with a Toyota FJ Cruiser, and if you're not familiar, it is a relatively short wheelbase vehicle.

The area and force applied to the sway control friction material (provided you have enough tongue weight) is greater with the Andersen than with one of the conventional slide anti-sway bars. The anti-sway part works very well for me, and actually better than the conventional bar it replaced.

And, because the trailer has a relatively low tongue weight (400 lbs +,-), and because I use the short wheel base TV, the weight distribution part works very well, for my particular situation.

Given my experience with my situation, I think the hitch is a good one for light weight trailers up to maybe 19' in the Airstream line, assuming you are willing to replace the coupler, but not much more than that.

With heavier tongue weight trailers, I'm sure the anti-sway function will work fine, but because of the small length of lever (basically from the center of the ball to the center of the chain pull), the Andersen is not capable of adequately transferring a large amount of tongue weight.

Those who are using it on larger trailers are simply accepting and living with inadequate weight distribution because they like the anti-sway portion of the hitch, and it's other good qualities such as light weight, anti bounce, no noise, no backing restrictions, etc., IMHO.
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Old 11-04-2013, 08:56 AM   #2357
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I wondered where all the naysayers were hiding. Great that we have some actual users to balance things out.

"Naysayer"-a person who says something will not work or is not possible : a person who denies, refuses, or opposes something.
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Old 11-04-2013, 10:10 AM   #2358
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And then there's the credulous:

1.
willing to believe or trust too readily, especially without proper or adequate evidence; gullible.
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Old 11-04-2013, 10:37 AM   #2359
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS View Post


So is it gobble-d-gook or a thesis?
The following sentence could be considered to be a thesis statement:

"The limit is not within the Andersen it is within the rear springs of the TV.",

IMO, the gobble-d-gook is in the verbiage which the poster then offered as proof of his thesis statement.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS View Post
For me the question of effectiveness relates to what I see.
A chain exerting tension on a lever with little purchase does not seem as effective as a 3' bar under easily adjusted stress.
An excellent explanation of the cause of the "limit" to which the thesis statement refers.

Ron
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Old 11-04-2013, 10:55 AM   #2360
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rendrag View Post
I wondered where all the naysayers were hiding. Great that we have some actual users to balance things out.

"Naysayer"-a person who says something will not work or is not possible : a person who denies, refuses, or opposes something.
Rendrag,

I don't need to be an Andersen user to know and understand the physics employed in the hitch.

Ron Gratz, who really knows what he's talking about, has already said that there isn't sufficient leverage in the design of Andersen to generate the torque required for load transfer that comes anywhere near that generated by a traditional chain and bar setup; it's all a question of leverage. That's all fine and dandy if you have a negligible tongue weight or your truck claims that you don't need to return the steering axle to its original load, but for everyone else, the Andersen simply doesn't do a sufficiently effective job in transferring load, at least not nearly as effectively as the traditional types of weight distribution hitches.

I wouldn't consider using an Andersen hitch; it's not that I don't like the Andersen's design, or because I'm some sort of towing Luddite, but because of the Andersen's limitations when it comes to load transfer, it simply wouldn't work for me and my setup. It's simple, inescapable physics.

Actually I don't like the Andersen, mostly because it claims to be something that it isn't; but that's only my opinion and can be wholly discounted because I'm not a user.
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Old 11-04-2013, 12:23 PM   #2361
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Not everyone can enjoy the benefits of the Andersen hitch. Agreed.

I have actually installed the hitch, pulled across the scales, and towed for several thousand miles with one. I like what it does for me. How many Anti-Andersen "Experts" have even held one in their hand? One compiles Internet "statistics" to "prove" his point. How reliable is that? Another tightened the bushings to the point of destruction, then said, "It ain't no good". A few others pile on when some "expert" points out a potential problem with a new mechanism. Funny thing is, I now have a different form of RV and don't need or use the hitch anymore. Have fun with the bashing and enjoy your negative attitude about something new and different. Sometimes progress isn't perfect. But a few of you think you are.
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Old 11-04-2013, 02:07 PM   #2362
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Thumbs up

Granted....it was much easier to perpetuate your own wool pulling before the interweb.

"It is more wiser to ponder all things with diligent suspicion, than follow with blind assumption."
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Old 11-04-2013, 02:27 PM   #2363
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Those who are using it on larger trailers are simply accepting and living with inadequate weight distribution because they like the anti-sway portion of the hitch, and it's other good qualities such as light weight, anti bounce, no noise, no backing restrictions, etc., IMHO.
Thanks Steve for pointing out most of the advantages of the Andersen. Now I don't expect you to accept that fact that I pull my 34 fter with one and it does work for trailers over 19 ft. Also I have posted my scale tickets here several times I will post them once more for those who may have an open mind on the subject. Please note that the front axle is loaded with 20# additional weight.

Now several will come back that that is NOT ENOUGH WEIGHT DISTRIBUTION but keep in mind I am not driving a soccer moms marshmallow.

I will be on the road next weekend and will post pictures of my rig just to be sure all realize the size of my trailer.

Thanks Again for stating why the Andersen so out classes the old.
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Old 11-04-2013, 02:44 PM   #2364
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Question

Str axle un-hitched weight? I don't see a baseline loaded TV ticket

I can tell by comparing mine I'm 100lbs light when hooked up with WD set.
Easy to see the weight being moved forward and aft.

Bob
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Old 11-04-2013, 02:47 PM   #2365
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rendrag View Post
Not everyone can enjoy the benefits of the Andersen hitch. Agreed.

I have actually installed the hitch, pulled across the scales, and towed for several thousand miles with one. I like what it does for me. How many Anti-Andersen "Experts" have even held one in their hand? One compiles Internet "statistics" to "prove" his point. How reliable is that? Another tightened the bushings to the point of destruction, then said, "It ain't no good". A few others pile on when some "expert" points out a potential problem with a new mechanism. Funny thing is, I now have a different form of RV and don't need or use the hitch anymore. Have fun with the bashing and enjoy your negative attitude about something new and different. Sometimes progress isn't perfect. But a few of you think you are.
I'm happy that you enjoyed your Andersen, Rendrag, but not so happy that you want to condemn the hitch's detractors as backwards looking flat-earthers.

By its design, the Andersen can't transfer load as effectively as a traditional system. You don't have to have handled one of these hitches to know that, you only need to understand some basic physics regarding leverage and torque. It's not "bashing" to say that the Andersen has limitations, nor is it a denial of progress or even a negative attitude, it's simply a statement of the hitch's performance. "It ain't no good" if you have a big tongue weight to shift on a lighter tow vehicle - it really is that simple.

The Andersen hitch is an interesting attempt to make weight distribution hitches easier to use and the manufacturer is to be applauded for trying. It's not good enough, yet, for a broad take up across the RV community because it doesn't work as well as other hitches on the market. There's nothing wrong, though, with people in the community criticizing it; how else will the manufacturer learn and address its shortcomings?
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Old 11-04-2013, 03:09 PM   #2366
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Hi, although my hitch has never let me down in nine years of use, I once considered the thought of buying an Andersen; I have since then seen too many draw backs, problems, and changes needed to my trailer and tow vehicle, for the use of the Andersen, that are just fine with the hitch that I have now. As much as this hurts me to say this, being a Ford person, I consider the Andersen to be the Edsel of hitches.
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