Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 06-17-2013, 03:12 PM   #1975
3 Rivet Member
 
Ramble On's Avatar
 
2004 28' International CCD
rockwall , Texas
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 124
Images: 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by dkottum View Post
Here's some who have done thousands for two generations

Can-Am RV Centre | Your Towing Experts

Sean at ProPride hitches recommended 1400# w.d. bars so we could get full weight transfer. He's a mechanical engineer who owns the hitch company.

Our 2012 Ram owners manual says nothing about 50% transfer is enough.

doug k
General Motors and Ford have been in business for over 100 years and have thousands of engineers. I guess you bought the wrong truck to match with the Andersen hitch.
__________________

__________________
Ramble On is offline  
Old 06-17-2013, 03:53 PM   #1976
Rivet Master
 
SteveH's Avatar
 
2005 39' Land Yacht 390 XL 396
Common Sense , Texas
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 5,311
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramble On View Post
General Motors and Ford have been in business for over 100 years and have thousands of engineers. I guess you bought the wrong truck to match with the Andersen hitch.
Said it before, and here it is again:

"Now people are arguing that weight return to the front axle is not really a requirement, but only with some vehicles. When did the physics of what a weight distribution hitch is supposed to do change? When did the traction of the front steering axle and primary braking axle cease to be a concern?"

Some manufacturers may have reduce the requirement for WD with their vehicles, but it WILL NOT change the fact that if you remove weight from the front axle of the tow vehicle, you WILL reduce the traction of that axle.

Since the Andersen will not really move the weight forward like a WD hitch is supposed to, now you are searching for excuses to say that it's not really a requirement. I think not.
__________________

__________________
Regards,
Steve
SteveH is offline  
Old 06-17-2013, 04:18 PM   #1977
Rivet Master
 
AWCHIEF's Avatar
 
2006 23' Safari SE
Biloxi , Mississippi
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 8,135
Images: 33
Yep like you have said before: "Since the Andersen will not really move the weight forward like a WD hitch is supposed to,==."

In my case not true, my Andersen WD system set up per the manufactures instructions returns all necessary weight to the front axle. As proven by the fender height being returned to the before load measurement.
__________________
MICHAEL

Do you know what a learning experience is? A learning experience is one of those things that says "You know that thing that you just did? Don't do that."
AWCHIEF is offline  
Old 06-17-2013, 04:21 PM   #1978
Rivet Master
 
SteveH's Avatar
 
2005 39' Land Yacht 390 XL 396
Common Sense , Texas
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 5,311
Quote:
Originally Posted by AWCHIEF View Post
In my case not true, my Andersen WD system set up per the manufactures instructions returns all necessary weight to the front axle. As proven by the fender height being returned to the before load measurement.
Yep, in my case too....it handles the massive 360 pounds of tongue weight of 17' Casita just fine, just like it does your 17' Airstream.

It's the bigger heavier trailers it doesn't do so good with.
__________________
Regards,
Steve
SteveH is offline  
Old 06-17-2013, 04:32 PM   #1979
3 Rivet Member
 
Ramble On's Avatar
 
2004 28' International CCD
rockwall , Texas
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 124
Images: 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveH View Post
Said it before, and here it is again:

"Now people are arguing that weight return to the front axle is not really a requirement, but only with some vehicles. When did the physics of what a weight distribution hitch is supposed to do change? When did the traction of the front steering axle and primary braking axle cease to be a concern?"

Some manufacturers may have reduce the requirement for WD with their vehicles, but it WILL NOT change the fact that if you remove weight from the front axle of the tow vehicle, you WILL reduce the traction of that axle.

Since the Andersen will not really move the weight forward like a WD hitch is supposed to, now you are searching for excuses to say that it's not really a requirement. I think not.
It's not me saying it, but Ford Motor Company that says it. Who am I suppose to believe, Ford or posters on some forum?
__________________
Ramble On is offline  
Old 06-17-2013, 04:36 PM   #1980
Rivet Master
 
SteveH's Avatar
 
2005 39' Land Yacht 390 XL 396
Common Sense , Texas
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 5,311
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramble On View Post
It's not me saying it, but Ford Motor Company that says it. Who am I suppose to believe, Ford or posters on some forum?
Believe the physics.
__________________
Regards,
Steve
SteveH is offline  
Old 06-17-2013, 04:46 PM   #1981
3 Rivet Member
 
Ramble On's Avatar
 
2004 28' International CCD
rockwall , Texas
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 124
Images: 2
Good Advice. All engineers use and trust Physics.
__________________
Ramble On is offline  
Old 06-17-2013, 04:48 PM   #1982
4 Rivet Member
 
Livingston , Texas
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 394
Quote:
Originally Posted by HowieE View Post
Just go back to "See Saw 101" and think about it for a while. What happens at the trailer axles if ALL of the tongue weight is moved to the TV regardless of in what ratio. What was the point of force application that would produce that result?
What happens at the trailer axles is that the trailer axles carry, on average, about 87% of the trailer's GVW and the remainder, known as "tongue weight", is moved to the TV when the coupler is on the ball and the tongue jack is retracted.

This happens many times every day all across the country and is called towing with no weight distriution.
Of course the axle loading would be about -45% of tongue weight on the TV's front axle and +145% on the rear -- but you did say "regardless of in what ratio".

Now, at risk of bringing the axle load distribution debate to a premature end,
if you would do an airforums.com search using Andy's username and keywords "front rear equal 10%",
I think you would find that Andy actually is advocating adjusting a WDH so the TV's front and rear gross axle loads are equal (within 10%).

If you can get the current debate settled, then you can move on to more pressing matters such as doing an internet search to see if you can find any support for claiming it was proven and accepted via "theoretical investigation" that a bumble bee can't fly.

Ron
__________________
Ron Gratz is offline  
Old 06-17-2013, 04:48 PM   #1983
Rivet Master
 
SteveH's Avatar
 
2005 39' Land Yacht 390 XL 396
Common Sense , Texas
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 5,311
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramble On View Post
Good Advice. All engineers use and trust Physics.
Yes they do, but the ones paid by an auto manufacturer have an agenda, just like a salesman.
__________________
Regards,
Steve
SteveH is offline  
Old 06-17-2013, 04:59 PM   #1984
4 Rivet Member
 
Livingston , Texas
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 394
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramble On View Post
General Motors and Ford have been in business for over 100 years and have thousands of engineers. I guess you bought the wrong truck to match with the Andersen hitch.
GM has been in business for over 100 years and its only for the last 1 or 2 years that they've said you can use 50% for some of their trucks under some conditions.

Does that mean GM got it wrong for more than 98-99% of the time they've been in business?

And they still specify 100% elimination of front-end rise for Tahoe/Suburbans and their GM counterparts, including the 2500 models.

Perhaps GW really isn't sure which way it should be?

Ron
__________________
Ron Gratz is offline  
Old 06-17-2013, 05:15 PM   #1985
Rivet Master
 
AWCHIEF's Avatar
 
2006 23' Safari SE
Biloxi , Mississippi
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 8,135
Images: 33
Never have been a big fan of fuzzy math. I think I will put my faith in the real experts at Ford.
__________________
MICHAEL

Do you know what a learning experience is? A learning experience is one of those things that says "You know that thing that you just did? Don't do that."
AWCHIEF is offline  
Old 06-17-2013, 06:09 PM   #1986
Rivet Master
Airstream Dealer
 
Inland RV Center, In's Avatar
 
Corona , California
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 16,499
Images: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveH View Post
it seems Inland Andy has more than one standard, and if you want to abide by his teachings, which one should you go by?
Steve.

I don't have any standards, BUT I do have srveral years of first hand experience of finding out and "PROVING" why people lose control of the trailer, and why they tear the trailer to pieces.

I choose to share that with people who apprecited the sharing of knowledge.

But, as always, there are those that want to share an opinion, and pound on it often enough, so as to try to make some folks believers.

I have stayed out of the Andreson thread, but sit back and laugh at some of the comments.

Steve, you certainly have stated which band wagon your riding, and as such, I have no comment.

I know a Reese, and as such know what it will and will not do, period.

Yes, I sell them, about one every two years, as I am no longer in the hitch business and have not been for a few years.

But, I doubt that would change some opinions.

Andy
__________________
Inland RV Center, In is offline  
Old 06-17-2013, 07:07 PM   #1987
3 Rivet Member
 
Currently Looking...
Harlingen , Texas
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Gratz View Post
GM has been in business for over 100 years and its only for the last 1 or 2 years that they've said you can use 50% for some of their trucks under some conditions.

...snip...
Ron
They say 0% for 1500 series trucks up to 7,000 pounds and 0% for 2500/3500 series trucks up to 18,000 pounds. That represents a lot of cases. Not sure why the 50% figure is the only one mentioned. NOT SUV's or sedans, but pickups.

I would assume that they have learned something in recent years to change their requirements, as hard as that is to believe.
__________________
Rendrag is offline  
Old 06-17-2013, 07:54 PM   #1988
Rivet Master
 
HowieE's Avatar
 
1991 34' Excella
Princeton , New Jersey
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 6,811
Images: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Gratz View Post
What happens at the trailer axles is that the trailer axles carry, on average, about 87% of the trailer's GVW and the remainder, known as "tongue weight", is moved to the TV when the coupler is on the ball and the tongue jack is retracted.
Ron

I am not going to try to explain it to you but would suggest you look at any of the scale tickets that have been posted, regardless if they transfer as much weight as some are requesting, and note the trailer axle weight once the WD hitch is applied. No one has or ever will design a mechanism that will transfer 100% of the tongue weight to the TV.

For those that may have a question. The force that applies weigh to the front axle of the TV has to come from somewhere. That somewhere is the rear axles of the trailer. The more you attempt to place on the front axles of the TV the more that will be placed on the trailer axles. All a WD hitch does is reduce the weight on the rear axle of the TV by placing it somewhere else
__________________

__________________
WBCCI 12156 AIR 3144 WACHUNG TAC NJ6
2004 Excursion 4x4
1991 34 ft. Excella +220,000 miles, new laminated flooring, new upholstery, new 3200 lbs axles

HowieE is offline  
Closed Thread


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:39 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.