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Old 06-15-2012, 06:54 PM   #183
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Very Curious Indeed

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Originally Posted by AirHeadsRus View Post
The scales showed that weight was distributed up to the front axles.
Chains loosened:
Steer axle 2900 LBS
Drive axle 3460 LB
Chains tightened to 7 threads showing:
Steer axle 3180
Drive axle 3300
I am closely following Andersen WDH user reports and find your results to be very curious.

If I am interpreting your axle loads correctly:

your steer axle increased from 2900 to 3180# -- a gain of 280#

your drive axle decreased from 3460 to 3300# -- a loss of 160#.

A simple load balance means that 280-160 = 120# was transferred from the trailer to the tow vehicle when the chains were tightened.
It seems to me that a WDH cannot remove load from the trailer.
I believe a WDH only can add load to the steer axle and trailer axles.

Typically, a WDH removes load from the drive axle, with about 2/3 of that load going to the steer axle and 1/3 going to the trailer axles.

Are you sure your scale values are correct?

Did you also measure the tow vehicle axle loads with the trailer disconnected?

Ron
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Old 06-15-2012, 07:55 PM   #184
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Ron
Probably had to do when the girl hit the button on the scale. I have to get out of the truck to call them. I could have been in the truck, on the rear drive scale, or climbing up to hit the call button when the picture was taken.
Unhooked weights are:
Steer axle 3360
Drive axle 2400

Trailer axles:
Loose 6520
Tightened 6600 (weight must be moving around.)

BTW, I took the rig to the scales to satisfy myself weight would be shifted. It was, so I'm cool. I still had plenty of room to adjust and feel confident I can adjust when I load up to travel. A lot easier than my former hitch.
Good luck,
Joe
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Old 06-15-2012, 08:57 PM   #185
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The Missing 200#

Joe,

The measured GCW for "chains loose" was 2900+3460+6520 = 12880#.

The measured GCW for "chains tight" was 3180+3300+6600 = 13080#.

One explanation for this difference is that 200# was removed from the scales during the "chains loose" weighing.
If we arbitrarily add 100# to each TV axle for the "chains loose" weighing, the "adjusted" axle loads would be:

TV Only: steer = 3360#, drive = 2400#
"Loose": steer = 3000#, drive = 3560#
"Tight": steer = 3180#, drive = 3300#

The "loose" condition would cause 360# to be removed from the steer axle and 1160# to be added to the drive axle.
The indicated tongue weight would be 800#.

The WDH would remove 260# from the drive axle. The load added to the steer axle would be 180#, and 80# would be added to the trailer axles.

If the above "adjustment" gives values close to reality,
the WDH would have transferred about 50% of the load required to bring the steer axle back to its unhitched value.

Ron
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Old 06-15-2012, 09:04 PM   #186
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Ron,

Will the Andersen not bring the steer axle back to the 3360# as before the trailer was added to the tow vehicle?
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Old 06-15-2012, 09:24 PM   #187
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Joe, glad you are happy with the Andersen hitch. Hopefully your numbers will help the number crunchers understand that it does actually work as advertised.
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Old 06-15-2012, 09:31 PM   #188
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Numbers make my head go



Thanks for posting them.
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Old 06-15-2012, 09:38 PM   #189
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Steve,

Joe's data show the steer axle was 180# lighter than the unhitched value with 7 threads showing.

Joe stated, "I still had plenty of room to adjust and feel confident I can adjust when I load up to travel."

We'll just have to wait to see what happens when Joe loads up and further tightens the chains.

It would be informative to know how much urethane spring compression was associated with his measurements.

Ron
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Old 06-15-2012, 10:06 PM   #190
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Ron

I am not sure what your point is here. A couple of things are clear. The hitch transferred to the front axle, a question that several have voiced. The amount can not accurately determined because Joe may have stepped off the scales for one of the readings, thus negating the math. The limit of adjustment was not reached, so additional tuning is available if needed.

He has stated that he was satisfied with his fender measurements before heading to the scale.
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Old 06-15-2012, 10:39 PM   #191
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HowieE,

My point was to understand what Joe's scale data were telling us. The numbers didn't make sense to me. If he did step off the scales during one measurement, then the numbers could make sense.

I don't think anyone questions whether the Andersen hitch can transfer load to the front axle. In my mind the question is how much load can be transferred.

From the scant amount of load data reported on this forum and others, I've not seen any data which shows full front axle load restoration for tongue weights in the range of 800-1000#. I'm not saying it can't happen -- I'm just looking for evidence that it has happened.

I have no problem with people being satisfied with their fender height measurements. I prefer to use axle load measurements as an indication of how much load is being transferred. And, I was just trying to understand the load data reported by Joe.

The urethane springs can only withstand a limited amount of compression. I'm interested in seeing if users can get enough compression to achieve full front axle load restoration when tongue weights are 800# or more.

Ron
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Old 06-15-2012, 10:39 PM   #192
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Ron, I also don't see what your point is. So I have an idea. Why don't you buy an Anderson hitch and check it out yourself. If you do not like it you can return it within 90 days.
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Old 06-16-2012, 08:05 AM   #193
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Gratz View Post
HowieE,


From the scant amount of load data reported on this forum and others, I've not seen any data which shows full front axle load restoration for tongue weights in the range of 800-1000#. I'm not saying it can't happen -- I'm just looking for evidence that it has happened.

The urethane springs can only withstand a limited amount of compression. I'm interested in seeing if users can get enough compression to achieve full front axle load restoration when tongue weights are 800# or more.

Ron
Not that it really matters, but I agree with you Ron. I really like a lot about this hitch, the fact that it is light weight, quiet, and greaseless, but still wonder if it truely will transfer all the weight needed with a heavy tongue weight trailer.

I'm also interested to see how it does long term, because even though all of the owners of the hitch seem to be very happy, the truth of the matter is there are no owners with more than a few months of use with it, let alone the decades and hundreds of thousands of miles of use and experience we have with the traditional hitches.

Like I've said in the past, it would be fun to be able to try every type of hitch built with your own rig, and then you would know for sure what hitch you like best.
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Old 06-16-2012, 08:38 AM   #194
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Gratz View Post
I have no problem with people being satisfied with their fender height measurements. I prefer to use axle load measurements as an indication of how much load is being transferred. And, I was just trying to understand the load data reported by Joe.
Ron I will hook up and tow to the scales if you can explain to me how I dropped the fender height of my TV by 3/8 of an inch when hooked up with the Andersen. By the way that is the same depression I was getting with my Reese. Yes scale weights are an interesting way to gather exact data and I would assume a manufacture might take that route during initial testing. More to calibrate the limits of the system hitch than for over the road setting up.

If I add the 5 grandchildren to the Excursion should I go to the scales as I leave town.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveH View Post
I'm also interested to see how it does long term, because even though all of the owners of the hitch seem to be very happy, the truth of the matter is there are no owners with more than a few months of use with it, let alone the decades and hundreds of thousands of miles of use and experience we have with the traditional hitches.
Steve we are both retired so I have to assume you have some age on you. Do you really have the time to wait a decade or until someone gets 100,000 miles on an Andersen. I did not. I saw something that made scene to me. I bought it. I made the changes in the instruction that were warranted and I have a system that works better than what I had before. If it fails this Forum will be the first to know.

The half dozen or more Reese systems I have used over time all had some form of failure and I have posted those conditions here over the years.
I have had the head bust in half while on the road. I have had bars crack in 2. I have worn trunnions to the point beyond adjustment limits. I have had the upper cup push out from lack of material in the original casting. I have redesigned the new Straight Line System to correct the fact that they fail on hard turns. All in all I am prepared for a mechanical system to fail, they all do in time, and will deal with that when it happens. We have to make our own judgements on the information we a comfortable with.
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Old 06-16-2012, 09:15 AM   #195
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Gratz View Post
HowieE,


From the scant amount of load data reported on this forum and others, I've not seen any data which shows full front axle load restoration for tongue weights in the range of 800-1000#. I'm not saying it can't happen -- I'm just looking for evidence that it has happened.


The urethane springs can only withstand a limited amount of compression. I'm interested in seeing if users can get enough compression to achieve full front axle load restoration when tongue weights are 800# or more.

Ron
Ron, I'm not sure what my tongue weight is now but when I did the bathroom scale method it was pushing 1200 lbs. I had a Hensley on then. Maybe you can figure what it would be now.
Joe
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Old 06-16-2012, 09:45 AM   #196
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User report

Hi,

I will add a user report.

I have a 19' Bambi and a 2010 Jeep Grand Cherokee TV. I installed the Andersen WD system about a month ago.

Sorry, I have no weights. I took fender measurements and the front fenders returned to exactly the same height as unhooked the rear are about an 1" lower. The trailer is level. The ride is excellent. I worked with Andersen when I had some questions. I ended up grinding off two links of the chain because my propane tanks were in the way.

After about 1000 miles I am VERY happy.

Please don't try to get me into theoretical discussions, I now feel safe and I am going camping!

If you have specific questions I'd be happy to answer them.

Jim
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