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Old 05-17-2013, 07:41 AM   #1849
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Neil, Great tow vehicles for an Airstream. I hope you can get the WD sorted out for a safe and comfortable ride.
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Old 05-17-2013, 10:15 AM   #1850
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Air shocks are a bad idea. Shock absorber mounts are not designed for this load and handling is adversely affected. Air bags that fit within the rear coil springs would be better. Better yet would be MOOG Cargo Coils (as we used on cars of that type; assuming they are still available) as there is no likelihood of air leaks, etc. DETROIT EATON SPRING may have upgraded coils as well (especially if a factory option; FF & RR). KONI shock abosrbers and polyurethane anti-roll bar bushings are an excellent upgrade (as we did with tow cars in the 1970's; adding as well a RR ADDCO anti-roll bar on coil or leaf-sprung cars with radial tires).

"Soft springs" are not the problem. A TT TW that takes 300# off a sedan FA will take the same amount off of a 1T pickup FA. How one may adjust all parts of a WDH to correct for this will be the difference (as between any two vehicles).

Pickups (and similar SUVs) have a greater problem of induced yaw versus sedans, part of their compromised handling even when solo. Loss of control is of greater likelihood with this vehicle type in all circumstances.

Good anti-sway is nice to have, but optional. Correct weight distribution -- on the other hand -- is mandatory.

.
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Old 05-17-2013, 10:15 AM   #1851
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From what I can recall of those vehicles, they tend to have a very "supple" ride, which could be a potential source of your porpoising problem, I am guessing.

Have you tried stiffer shocks, or tires with stiffer sidewalls?
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Old 05-17-2013, 10:55 AM   #1852
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People confuse excessive yaw with instability due to overloaded rear suspension. It may "feel" like a light front end but is really the rear end swaying which requires constant and often over-correction of the steering. I have chased a few overloaded pickups down the road and they still had plenty of front axle weight. The weight was centered over the rear axle. Hitches are not designed to cure an overloaded rear suspension although many try.
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Old 05-17-2013, 12:47 PM   #1853
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slowmover View Post
---A TT TW that takes 300# off a sedan FA will take the same amount off of a 1T pickup FA.---
Actually, the amounts removed might be significantly different due to differences in wheelbase and rear overhang.

An F-350 with 172" wheelbase and 52" rear overhang (assume ball overhang = 62") and an 800# TW will have about 290# removed from the FA and about 1090# added to the RA without application of WD
An Oldsmobile 98 with 127" wheelbase and 62" rear overhang (assume ball overhang = 72") and an 800# TW will have about 450# removed from the FA and about 1250# added to the RA.

I don't know how FreshAir adjusts his WDH, but I do know it was common for owners of vehicles such as the Olds 98 to aim for having approximately equal load added to the front and rear axles.
To accomplish this for the above example of 450# removed fromt the FA and 1250# added to the RA, the WDH would have to add about 680# to the FA and remove about 1020# from the RA.

It should be possible to squeeze close to 680# of load transfer out of the 1000#-rated WD bars.
However, I've seen nothing to suggest that an Andersen WDH could come close to transferring 680# to the FA of the Olds 98.
A tension of 2000# per chain, which would require about 1/2" compression according to data obtained by Bruce H., might achieve a FA load transfer of about 300#.

Just pointing this out for the benefit of FreshAir in case he needs to restore more than 300# of load to his FA.

Ron
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Old 05-17-2013, 07:02 PM   #1854
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The good news for the Andersen hitch company is that even though 300# is not nearly enough (as I stated) for a forty year old Buick, it is plenty for modern Pickups from GM and Ford. Now that they require 50% or less in most applications, the fascination with FALR is not nearly so important as it was once thought to be. It is still a factor, but not the be all and end all of modern hitch design.
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Old 05-17-2013, 07:43 PM   #1855
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So Rednax was right. He did not need to buy heavier bars to get that final 100 pounds back on his set up. I wonder if he ever did?
He posted that on the PP thread but as far as I can see he did not ever say what he finally did.
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Old 05-17-2013, 09:07 PM   #1856
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rendrag View Post
The good news for the Andersen hitch company is that even though 300# is not nearly enough (as I stated) for a forty year old Buick, it is plenty for modern Pickups from GM and Ford.
Yes, you did state that FreshAir's situation was "well beyond the capabilities of the Andersen".

However, the post following yours seemed to express a different opinion: "While I expect the Andersen will be able to return the front axle height ---".
So, I decided to add my own opinion and present some numbers to show just how far beyond the capabilities of the Andersen FreshAir's situation is.

And, I would caution against trying to apply the 300# figure to other TV/TT combinations.
The 300# figure was a generous rounding off of the actual 273# which I calculated for FreshAir's Oldsmobile and trailer.

Assuming that a tension of 2000# per chain could be obtained (remember that probably would require about 1/2" compression),
the load transfer to the front of a pickup with 160" wheelbase and 62" ball overhang towing a 30' trailer would be closer to 200# instead of the 300# used in my example.

Ron
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Old 05-17-2013, 09:56 PM   #1857
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An F-350 with 172" wheelbase and 52" rear overhang (assume ball overhang = 62") and an 800# TW will have about 290# removed from the FA and about 1090# added to the RA without application of WD.

An Oldsmobile 98 with 127" wheelbase and 62" rear overhang (assume ball overhang = 72") and an 800# TW will have about 450# removed from the FA and about 1250# added to the RA.


Thanks, should have put it differently. There is the conception (abounding) that trucks need to little to no help in towing setups. Weight removed off the FA has consequences for any vehicle type. The reliance on stability control and integrated brake controls may account for asking customers to hit within a range. Keeping a pickup on the straight and narrow is a balancing act.

Andy/Inland RV Ctr did the best job of stating the way things were once done.

.
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Old 05-17-2013, 11:09 PM   #1858
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"Keeping a pickup on the straight and narrow is a balancing act."

You got that right. An unloaded pickup is way out of balance with a heavy front axle and a very light rear. If a couple hundred pounds is so critical on the front axle, why do not manufacturers add ballast to their gasoline powered pickups to bring their front end up to the weight of their diesel powered models? Balancing the weight between the front and rear axles is a good thing. Race cars strive for such balance and handling is everything on the race track. Both GM and Ford have taken a look at weight distribution and concluded that maintaining 100% of front axle weight is not a requirement for safe use of their pickup trucks. This has nothing to do with whether an Andersen, Reese, or other hitch is doing the distributing or lack thereof.
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Old 05-21-2013, 10:36 AM   #1859
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A solo/empty pickup truck is crippled by that FF/RR imbalance as it comes to maintaining RR axle traction, but more so by its high COG [center-of-gravity]. Tires useable on cars and trucks are de-rated for truck use by this factor alone.

If 51% of FALR is at the low end for particular set of trucks, can the ANDERSON meet even that? (for those brands and year model trucks; need specific instances).

.
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Old 05-21-2013, 01:11 PM   #1860
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De-rated tires, COG, 51% FALR (who requires that?) What are you asking?

My 2500 HD "requires" no FALR with my trailer, per Chevrolet. I use a little, just to utilize the sway resistance of the Andersen hitch. Is that an example? Handles great. My 1500 with a much softer rear suspension required 50%, which I was able to attain with the Andersen hitch.

What some feel as front end lightness is actually the rear end swaying because of overload. I realize not everyone has had as much experience as I have at hauling things but when you put a thousand pound backhoe bucket in the bed of a half ton and wobble down the road, you will realize it has nothing to do with FALR.
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Old 05-22-2013, 08:08 AM   #1861
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This hitch looks interesting. What is the outer housing made of ? It looks like aluminum. This would be the part that hooks to the draw bar.

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Old 05-22-2013, 08:40 AM   #1862
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This hitch looks interesting. What is the outer housing made of ? It looks like aluminum. This would be the part that hooks to the draw bar.

Perry
Yes, it's aluminum.
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