Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 05-09-2013, 04:28 PM   #1793
Rivet Master
 
AWCHIEF's Avatar
 
2006 23' Safari SE
Biloxi , Mississippi
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 8,142
Images: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by chickenrx View Post
Please forgive me if this has been asked before, but I have a very simple question. Can anyone who has the Andersen hitch tell me if there is room to drop the tailgate fully on a Ford F150 or F450 (I have both) without hitting the electric jack post? No problem in this regard with my current Hensley, but I've about had it with the PIA hook-up process of this hitch and am looking for something lighter and simpler.
Thanks in advance,
Ted Miller
Delaware Airstreamer
Ted, on my 2012 F150 there is not room enough to drop the tailgate using the standard Andersen supplied shank. They can provide an extended shank on request. You can contact Andersen directly for further information and recomendations on what you need for your TV/trailer combination.
__________________

__________________
MICHAEL

Do you know what a learning experience is? A learning experience is one of those things that says "You know that thing that you just did? Don't do that."
AWCHIEF is offline  
Old 05-09-2013, 04:38 PM   #1794
Rivet Master
 
TG Twinkie's Avatar
 
1974 Argosy 26
Morrill , Nebraska
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 5,140
Images: 2
Blog Entries: 5
Howie
On my setup. It is not necessary to remove the chain over the tongue. Once you remove the tension from the WD chains. Just pull the pin on the triangular plate. The plate will drop down and hang on the safety chain I installed.
I disconnect the Andersen at the plate end instead of removing the chains from the square tubes. Fewer parts to get lost. Then hang the Andersen chains over the tongue until I am ready to hitch up again.
__________________

__________________
Knowledge: "A gift to be shared. A treasure to receive."
TG Twinkie is offline  
Old 05-09-2013, 09:09 PM   #1795
Rivet Master
 
AWCHIEF's Avatar
 
2006 23' Safari SE
Biloxi , Mississippi
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 8,142
Images: 33
Doug
Thank you for repeating all that once again. I am sure someone did not read your other post stating the same reasons for you no longer using the Anderson system.
__________________
MICHAEL

Do you know what a learning experience is? A learning experience is one of those things that says "You know that thing that you just did? Don't do that."
AWCHIEF is offline  
Old 05-09-2013, 10:05 PM   #1796
Rivet Master
 
HowieE's Avatar
 
1991 34' Excella
Princeton , New Jersey
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 6,814
Images: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by TG Twinkie View Post
Howie
On my setup. It is not necessary to remove the chain over the tongue. Once you remove the tension from the WD chains. Just pull the pin on the triangular plate. The plate will drop down and hang on the safety chain I installed.
I disconnect the Andersen at the plate end instead of removing the chains from the square tubes. Fewer parts to get lost. Then hang the Andersen chains over the tongue until I am ready to hitch up again.
OK That works.
__________________
WBCCI 12156 AIR 3144 WACHUNG TAC NJ6
2004 Excursion 4x4
1991 34 ft. Excella +220,000 miles, new laminated flooring, new upholstery, new 3200 lbs axles

HowieE is offline  
Old 05-09-2013, 11:47 PM   #1797
Rivet Master
 
TG Twinkie's Avatar
 
1974 Argosy 26
Morrill , Nebraska
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 5,140
Images: 2
Blog Entries: 5
Maybe there are 2 different hitches out there.
One is Anderson and the other is Andersen.
Obviously we are talking about 2 different WD hitches.
__________________
Knowledge: "A gift to be shared. A treasure to receive."
TG Twinkie is offline  
Old 05-10-2013, 08:22 AM   #1798
3 Rivet Member
 
Currently Looking...
Harlingen , Texas
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by TG Twinkie View Post
Maybe there are 2 different hitches out there.
One is Anderson and the other is Andersen.
Obviously we are talking about 2 different WD hitches.
There are at least two hitches. The first one is the one that people buy which is the first generation of an interesting and innovative design with some challenges. The buyers are mostly happy, with reservations. It has some problems, which both customers and Andersen are addressing.

There is the second, which nobody has actually purchased. Some self appointed "experts" condemn the second one for their own reasons, mostly because it conflicts with what they have spent thirty or forty years learning about. They were never going to buy one, but state their opinions over and over.

This forum is a great place for users to share their problems and successes. Keep it coming.
__________________
Rendrag is offline  
Old 05-10-2013, 09:01 AM   #1799
Rivet Master
 
HowieE's Avatar
 
1991 34' Excella
Princeton , New Jersey
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 6,814
Images: 12
Rendrag

I think you have hit on the head. This and most other Forums are composed of individuals that have a common interest. That interest often centers around the the use or ownership of a common products. Given this common interest it is not to say that all commons posted are reserved to praise and satisfaction. But rather most often questions or comment on how to improve the utilization of the products. It is uncommon to have individual repeatedly post commons of dissatisfaction. Most dissatisfied individuals would likely post that once and move on. Unless one has an agenda repeated dissatisfaction gains then nothing within the Forum community.
__________________
WBCCI 12156 AIR 3144 WACHUNG TAC NJ6
2004 Excursion 4x4
1991 34 ft. Excella +220,000 miles, new laminated flooring, new upholstery, new 3200 lbs axles

HowieE is offline  
Old 05-10-2013, 09:07 AM   #1800
Rivet Master
 
SteveH's Avatar
 
2005 39' Land Yacht 390 XL 396
Common Sense , Texas
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 5,311
And then there are those that repeatedly defend a product that obviously has flaws in it's intended/designed use either just because they own one, or possibly because they are compensated to do so?

By the way HowieE, you never answered my question in post #1721.
__________________
Regards,
Steve
SteveH is offline  
Old 05-10-2013, 09:32 AM   #1801
Rivet Master
 
HowieE's Avatar
 
1991 34' Excella
Princeton , New Jersey
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 6,814
Images: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveH View Post
Yea, Howie,
By the way, are you compensated in any way by Andersen Hitch Co.?
NO I am not.

Sorry for the delay in response but I thought my posts regarding design changes would have made that quite clear to most.

I started this tread because I saw the Andersen as a very interesting and novel approach to an old problem. If you have followed the compleat thread you will see that I have pointed out several issues with the design and the use. Each of these points have been supported by the comments of others and for the most part addressed by Andersen.

As a user I see no problem with your continued comments, either positive or negative. That is the right of Forum member and user of the tread topic. My point in the above post was to question the motivation of those that have moved on, and stated so, or as in one case marketing another product.

If you have questions or suggestions please make them as that was the original stated intent.
__________________
WBCCI 12156 AIR 3144 WACHUNG TAC NJ6
2004 Excursion 4x4
1991 34 ft. Excella +220,000 miles, new laminated flooring, new upholstery, new 3200 lbs axles

HowieE is offline  
Old 05-10-2013, 09:45 AM   #1802
Rivet Master
 
Currently Looking...
K.C. , Missouri
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 585
I read with interest the fact that many say the hitch eliminates the "porpoising" of the truck/trailer combo. I'm just thinking out loud here, so please weigh in if you have an opinion: lets assume in fact the rig is not ( for lack of a better term ) flexing as much at the ball, as it would, let's say as it is with my BlueOx. Further assume this "more locked together" feeling is what is smoothing out the porpoise movement. If these assumptions are correct, then perhaps it's because the urethane bushing design has less travel than my conventional weight bars. So they ( the urethane bushings ) are in effect "bottoming out" in normal use, and therefore forcing the suspension of the truck and trailer to absorb these forces ?
If I am right, and if "over-barring" an A/S can lead to stress issues destroying rivets, might we see a greater chance of rivet failure in the long run ? I guess only time will tell.

Just thinking out loud here....looking forward to comments from users and the engineers out there.

I will admit this is a fascinating thread, both from the perspectives of whether folks like it, or hate it, but also from the personal perspective of how folks communicate their feeling about the hitch.
__________________
gmw photos is offline  
Old 05-10-2013, 10:01 AM   #1803
Rivet Master
 
HowieE's Avatar
 
1991 34' Excella
Princeton , New Jersey
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 6,814
Images: 12
To address your question of porpoising I have assumed it is a function of the difference in the resonant frequency of metal bars and the bushings. The bars tend to maintain porpoising through the ring down of the bars.
__________________
WBCCI 12156 AIR 3144 WACHUNG TAC NJ6
2004 Excursion 4x4
1991 34 ft. Excella +220,000 miles, new laminated flooring, new upholstery, new 3200 lbs axles

HowieE is offline  
Old 05-10-2013, 10:02 AM   #1804
Rivet Master
 
SteveH's Avatar
 
2005 39' Land Yacht 390 XL 396
Common Sense , Texas
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 5,311
Quote:
Originally Posted by gmw photos View Post
I read with interest the fact that many say the hitch eliminates the "porpoising" of the truck/trailer combo. I'm just thinking out loud here, so please weigh in if you have an opinion: lets assume in fact the rig is not ( for lack of a better term ) flexing as much at the ball, as it would, let's say as it is with my BlueOx. Further assume this "more locked together" feeling is what is smoothing out the porpoise movement. If these assumptions are correct, then perhaps it's because the urethane bushing design has less travel than my conventional weight bars. So they ( the urethane bushings ) are in effect "bottoming out" in normal use, and therefore forcing the suspension of the truck and trailer to absorb these forces ?
If I am right, and if "over-barring" an A/S can lead to stress issues destroying rivets, might we see a greater chance of rivet failure in the long run ? I guess only time will tell.

Just thinking out loud here....looking forward to comments from users and the engineers out there.

I will admit this is a fascinating thread, both from the perspectives of whether folks like it, or hate it, but also from the personal perspective of how folks communicate their feeling about the hitch.
It is my opinion from using this hitch this feature is a double edge sword. Yes, the hitch has less springiness, meaning less porpoising.

I believe this is because the urethane "springs" are much slower to release their stored energy than a steel spring.

This is good because it does demand the tow vehicle's suspension to work more. I believe it is bad to some degree because in certain road conditions (big dips like entering and exiting service stations), it puts excessive loads on the hitch and tongue of the trailer.

It may prove to be detrimental to Airstreams after more experience is gained with the hitch, but at this point, I don't believe anyone has enough towing experience with the Andersen and an Airstream.
__________________
Regards,
Steve
SteveH is offline  
Old 05-10-2013, 10:21 AM   #1805
Rivet Master
 
TG Twinkie's Avatar
 
1974 Argosy 26
Morrill , Nebraska
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 5,140
Images: 2
Blog Entries: 5
I don't see that the Andersen places any more stress on the TV or coach frame that the conventional WD hitch.
While it is an extreme example. The old commercials for WD hitch showing an Oldsmobile Tornado towing an A$ with the rear tires removed. It is an example of how the WD restricts the vertical movement at the ball. By not allowing the rear of the TV or the tongue of the trailer to drop.
There have been numerous post here about rivets popping. Some blame the WD hitch. Others blame running gear problems.
I don't believe the Andersen hitch has enough history to make a determination as yet. While the conventional WD hitch has been around for many decades. Torsion bars that are too heavy for the coach, improper set up etc. could be the cause for damage to both the TV and the coach.
While I have never used a conventional WD hitch. The only thing negative I can say about them is. When I hear them popping and snapping. I think. That vibration of the popping is being transferred to the frame of the trailer. Perhaps the rivet problem has more to do with the popping and snapping than it does with the stress factor on the frame.
When there is a popping or snapping action. It puts a shear force on the rivets. Either wallowing out the rivet hole or shearing the head of the rivet(s).
Of course there is the twisting action if the coach as it travels over gas station approaches and the like. Which could be a contributing factor. Because it creates the same sideways force on a rivet that you would get if you chopped the head off with a chisel.
Perhaps just the fact that you tow the rig down the road is the major factor in rivets failing.
I can remember flying in old Coast Guard helicopters and noticing rivets rotating in the holes where the skin is attached to to frame. One would assume that these rivets were replaced in the routine maintenance if the chopper. Also never heard of a chopper crashing because of a few rivets that were loose.
__________________
Knowledge: "A gift to be shared. A treasure to receive."
TG Twinkie is offline  
Old 05-10-2013, 01:41 PM   #1806
Rivet Master
 
ROBERTSUNRUS's Avatar

 
2005 25' Safari
Salem , Oregon
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 7,272
Images: 18
Blog Entries: 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveH View Post
It is my opinion from using this hitch this feature is a double edge sword. Yes, the hitch has less springiness, meaning less porpoising.

I believe this is because the urethane "springs" are much slower to release their stored energy than a steel spring.

This is good because it does demand the tow vehicle's suspension to work more. I believe it is bad to some degree because in certain road conditions (big dips like entering and exiting service stations), it puts excessive loads on the hitch and tongue of the trailer.

It may prove to be detrimental to Airstreams after more experience is gained with the hitch, but at this point, I don't believe anyone has enough towing experience with the Andersen and an Airstream.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TG Twinkie View Post
I don't see that the Andersen places any more stress on the TV or coach frame that the conventional WD hitch.
While it is an extreme example. The old commercials for WD hitch showing an Oldsmobile Tornado towing an A$ with the rear tires removed. It is an example of how the WD restricts the vertical movement at the ball. By not allowing the rear of the TV or the tongue of the trailer to drop.
There have been numerous post here about rivets popping. Some blame the WD hitch. Others blame running gear problems.
I don't believe the Andersen hitch has enough history to make a determination as yet. While the conventional WD hitch has been around for many decades. Torsion bars that are too heavy for the coach, improper set up etc. could be the cause for damage to both the TV and the coach.
While I have never used a conventional WD hitch. The only thing negative I can say about them is. When I hear them popping and snapping. I think. That vibration of the popping is being transferred to the frame of the trailer. Perhaps the rivet problem has more to do with the popping and snapping than it does with the stress factor on the frame.
When there is a popping or snapping action. It puts a shear force on the rivets. Either wallowing out the rivet hole or shearing the head of the rivet(s).
Of course there is the twisting action if the coach as it travels over gas station approaches and the like. Which could be a contributing factor. Because it creates the same sideways force on a rivet that you would get if you chopped the head off with a chisel.
Perhaps just the fact that you tow the rig down the road is the major factor in rivets failing.
I can remember flying in old Coast Guard helicopters and noticing rivets rotating in the holes where the skin is attached to to frame. One would assume that these rivets were replaced in the routine maintenance if the chopper. Also never heard of a chopper crashing because of a few rivets that were loose.

Hi, trying to highlight a few comments. I have a feeling that, with heavier trailers, the Urethane spring/bushing is almost completely compressed. Now when going over a dip, with literally no more cushion left. [bottomed out] this could put great stress on the trailer's "A" frame. Where as with spring bars, they may increase tension, but they will continue to bend. I see this as an explanation on why the set screw holes would be forced to elongate the holes in the "A" frame. Maybe Andersen should make a larger hitch assembly with stronger "A" frame mounting brackets, with much larger Urethane bushings, so a larger trailer could be set-up at about 50% compression. This would leave some room for flexing.
__________________

__________________
Bob

2005 Safari 25-B
"Le Petit Chateau Argent"
[ Small Silver Castle ]
2000 Navigator / 2014 F-150 Eco-Boost / Equal-i-zer / P-3
YAMAHA 2400 / AIR #12144
ROBERTSUNRUS is offline  
Closed Thread


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:51 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.