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Old 07-17-2013, 10:44 PM   #2201
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Originally Posted by HowieE View Post
---If you can explain where you see a difference between "maintaining steering geometry" and "maintaining enough load on the front tires" we will all be well served.
To have a meaningful discussion of difference, or lack of difference, we need to have definitions for terms.
I think you have defined "maintaining steering geometry" in the following:
Quote:
Originally Posted by HowieE View Post
There is no single answer as to how to adjust a WD hitch. It is a function of the spring rate of the TV. The important consideration is to maintain the steering geometry of the front axle. Too little or too much transferred to the front axle will cause problems. Too little equals a lose of steering control. Too much will cause tire problems.

I generally try for a 60/40 ratio in depression of the fender heights. This will change depending on the springs of the TV.
From your statements, it appears to me that "maintaining steering geometry" equates to having a 60/40 ratio in depression of fender heights. Or, to use your numbers stated in the following, the rear of the TV should drop about 1/2" and the front should drop about 3/8".
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Originally Posted by HowieE View Post
Another way to look at this is if the rear fender dropps 1/2 in. the front should drop about 3/8in. These measurments will very somewhat depending on the truck springs but the important point is you want to see weight transfered to the front axle. If the front axle is coming up you will have sway because of the reduced road friction on the front axle.
Then we have the following:
Quote:
Originally Posted by HowieE View Post
In the case of the Andersen there is no need to apply force to the cams as they are not the mechanical mechanism used to reduce sway. While the formula F=UM still applies in controlling sway. The only reason to consider weight transfer when using an Andersen, that uses a different mechanical mechanism, friction between the cone and ball shaft, is to apply enough downward force on the front axle to maintain steering geometry, something you might find and quote from some of my other posts.
(bold added for emphasis)

I think this, combined with your previous posts, is saying the Andersen should be able to apply enough downward force on the front axle to maintain steering geometry.
And, that equates to saying the Andersen should be able to apply enough downward force on the front axle to cause about 1/2" of drop on the rear axle and about 3/8" of drop on the front.

Have I misquoted anything you posted?

Ron
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Old 07-17-2013, 10:58 PM   #2202
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Originally Posted by Rendrag View Post
---Is the hitch rating tied to 100% Front Axle Load Restoration now?---
I believe that WDH ratings have been tied to 100%, or more, Front Axle Load Restoration ever since the first EAZ-Lift WDH was introduced back in 1952.

Any WDH manufacturer who instructs users to return the front of the TV to, or below, the unhitched height is, in effect, saying the load restoration should be 100% or more.

When Andersen states that their WDH should be adjusted to return the TV to "level", they are, in effect, saying the front axle load restoration should be 100% or more.

Ron
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Old 07-17-2013, 11:21 PM   #2203
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However, I would not hesitate in hitching up a 10,000 pound trailer with a 1400 pound tongue weight to my 2500HD pickup using an Andersen hitch I would be under all ratings, including payload and GCWR. Snug up the bushings and head on down the road. Not an extreme example.
Why should you hesitate?

Your 2500HD is rated to tow that load without using a weight distribution hitch.

If you don't need a WDH, the Andersen would be a sufficient, but expensive, connection between TV and TT.
A 60$ Titan ball mount would seem to be a better alternative.

Ron
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Old 07-18-2013, 12:10 AM   #2204
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Chuck, have you checked the cumulative tongue weight of all those draught animals? You may be going beyond the capacity of the harnesses.
What does a horse tongue weigh? Can't be more than 5 lbs or so each!
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Old 07-18-2013, 12:19 AM   #2205
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Gratz View Post
I believe that WDH ratings have been tied to 100%, or more, Front Axle Load Restoration ever since the first EAZ-Lift WDH was introduced back in 1952.

Any WDH manufacturer who instructs users to return the front of the TV to, or below, the unhitched height is, in effect, saying the load restoration should be 100% or more.

When Andersen states that their WDH should be adjusted to return the TV to "level", they are, in effect, saying the front axle load restoration should be 100% or more.

Ron
How come you don't have any trailer info on your signature?

Comments mean more when your point of reference is known.

My p.o.r. is a light and small 16' trailer. I think the Andersen was made just for me. I am very pleased with it and now that I have added the quick bite all the worry about the Atwood failure rate is gone.

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Old 07-18-2013, 12:45 AM   #2206
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Originally Posted by Rich of SCal View Post
How come you don't have any trailer info on your signature?

Comments mean more when your point of reference is known.

My p.o.r. is a light and small 16' trailer. I think the Andersen was made just for me. I am very pleased with it and now that I have added the quick bite all the worry about the Atwood failure rate is gone.
Is owning an Airstream trailer a requirement for commenting on this forum?

Is owning an Andersen hitch a requirement for commenting on this thread?

Does what I do or do not own have anything to do with my comments which you quoted?

BTW, I think an Andersen WDH is well suited for a 16' trailer. But, do you really need a WDH at all? How much is the tongue weight?

Ron
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Old 07-18-2013, 01:51 AM   #2207
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Originally Posted by Ron Gratz View Post
Is owning an Airstream trailer a requirement for commenting on this forum?

Is owning an Andersen hitch a requirement for commenting on this thread?

Does what I do or do not own have anything to do with my comments which you quoted?

BTW, I think an Andersen WDH is well suited for a 16' trailer. But, do you really need a WDH at all? How much is the tongue weight?

Ron
No it's not. No it's not. So what do you pull? I can level my Jeep pretty well by tightening up the Andersen. And the friction anti-sway helps when I go thru the high winds near Palm Springs. Sure is a lot less hardware to fool with than the Reese dual cam I started with. So what do you tow and what system do you tow with? This thread is too long to go back to see if you said before. Thanks.
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Old 07-18-2013, 05:45 AM   #2208
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I have somewhat the same question. Ron, have you ever towed even ten miles with an Andersen hitch? Do you tow a travel trailer at all these days? Or is your expertise simply parroting back what others have stated? Using charts and graphs based on anonymous sources to "prove" your prejudices is ninth grade stuff.

I have no idea why you have such an obsession with, and animosity toward, the Andersen hitch. There must be something to cause you to post the hundreds (thousands?) of words attacking their product. I will give you this, you sure know how to manipulate the data and the English language. I hope this is not too personal for the forum and I also hope that we can get back to hearing both the good and bad from Andersen Users. After all, this is the "The Andersen WD Hitch User Thread".
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Old 07-18-2013, 06:03 AM   #2209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Gratz View Post
I believe that WDH ratings have been tied to 100%, or more, Front Axle Load Restoration ever since the first EAZ-Lift WDH was introduced back in 1952. ....snip..............................

Ron

"Believing" and "Assuming" get me in trouble. I have no idea if manufacturers rate their tow vehicles or hitches based on 100% restoration. Manufactures, and some contributors on here, use their imagination when making statements. Surprise, surprise, that is called advertising and any of us should be familiar with its application. That is what I "believe".
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Old 07-19-2013, 03:24 AM   #2210
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I agree. This is an Anderson user thread. If you don't use one or have not you know nothing first hand about it. Only hearsay. Being on quite a few groups I have found a lot of people just like to make comments to see their name on the monitor.
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Old 07-19-2013, 09:25 AM   #2211
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Originally Posted by themartaman1 View Post
I agree. This is an Anderson user thread. Being on quite a few groups I have found a lot of people just like to make comments to see their name on the monitor.
I know I do! USERS UNITE!

But seriously, folks...here's a couple pics of the final buffed and painted, welded on, new quick bite and my helpful welder/neighbor Steve. Great job, Steve!

Rather than just weld it over the old coupler (which still would have left an uneven gap) he welded in two slabs of steel. That baby is solid! Welded edges, verticals and underneath. And it is perfectly positioned over all the old tongue jack holes. Now it looks "Airstream quality" They should be ashamed for putting those cheap Atwood 88000's on these otherwise beautiful TT's. He even found bondo on the frame!

ONE MORE THING! Steve was looking at the Atwood socket he cut off and noticed inside there was a hairline crack in the socket area itself! Very cheap product. No wonder I've seen them for around $40. And this is 1 1/2 year old trailer, bought new, with only short trips . So maybe Andersen saved me trouble down the line by causing me to to change the coupler early in it's life. Who knows.
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Old 07-19-2013, 09:59 AM   #2212
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Rich, that thing is a beast of a coupler for a small trailer. Sad that Airstream is cutting corners by installing such a cheaply made coupler on their trailers and that new owners have to make such a change in the name of basic safety. It goes hand and hand with all the other QA issues that they have. Coupler brand and ball size should be an available no cost option.
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Old 07-19-2013, 10:17 AM   #2213
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Gratz View Post
I think this, combined with your previous posts, is saying the Andersen should be able to apply enough downward force on the front axle to maintain steering geometry.
And, that equates to saying the Andersen should be able to apply enough downward force on the front axle to cause about 1/2" of drop on the rear axle and about 3/8" of drop on the front.

Have I misquoted anything you posted?

Ron
No Ron you have not misquoted anything it is just that you have no understanding of what you are reading. It would be nice if you could separate comments made with regard to a bar type WD hitch and those directed to the Andersen.

Having written political campaign press releases. I to am aware of the use of ambiguous half truths and intentional misdirection. Did use a few. We are not campaigning for a place at the trough here we are attempting to disseminate useful information that will allow the readers to make a TRULY informed decision. And yes the complete slate was elected.

Maintaining steering geometry does not infer that the front axle has to be dropped at all. If one has returned the front axle to within the normal limits as designed that's it.

Now don't go off on one of your tangents and quibble about what are the normal limits that retain the design limitations of the front axle. Remember Detroit did figure that my mother in law might ride in the front or back seat of the TV and thus a significant change in front axle load but still within limits.
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Old 07-19-2013, 10:18 AM   #2214
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AWCHIEF View Post
Rich, that thing is a beast of a coupler for a small trailer. Sad that Airstream is cutting corners by installing such a cheaply made coupler on their trailers and that new owners have to make such a change in the name of basic safety. It goes hand and hand with all the other QA issues that they have. Coupler brand and ball size should be an available no cost option.
Yes, it is. It added some weight, but I still think I am ahead with the Andersen compared to my Reese dual cam. I definitely think one shouldn't scrimp on safety. Air Force drilled that into my head for almost 28 years.
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Old 07-19-2013, 10:22 AM   #2215
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HowieE! Almost 2 days of peace and you're stirring up the kids again!?
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Old 07-19-2013, 10:26 AM   #2216
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Rich, I would think the small added weight would be worth it for the upgrade. I do know from actual experience that the Andersen WD system might be the best system for smaller trailers such as ours. I know what you mean about having safety drilled into the head courtesy of 22 years of Naval Aviation. Contrary to what some very uninformed people here seem to think, I wold not be using the Andersen if I did not think it was safe. Spending thousands of dollars is not necessary for a safe drive.
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Old 07-19-2013, 11:12 AM   #2217
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Originally Posted by AWCHIEF View Post
Rich, I would think the small added weight would be worth it for the upgrade. I do know from actual experience that the Andersen WD system might be the best system for smaller trailers such as ours. I know what you mean about having safety drilled into the head courtesy of 22 years of Naval Aviation. Contrary to what some very uninformed people here seem to think, I wold not be using the Andersen if I did not think it was safe. Spending thousands of dollars is not necessary for a safe drive.
Well said, Chief.
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Old 07-19-2013, 11:35 AM   #2218
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Originally Posted by Rich of SCal View Post

I know I do! USERS UNITE!

But seriously, folks...here's a couple pics of the final buffed and painted, welded on, new quick bite and my helpful welder/neighbor Steve. Great job, Steve!

.
Wow that looks great! Most guys named Steve are pretty cool :-)

That should be a factory option!!
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Old 07-19-2013, 08:54 PM   #2219
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Originally Posted by HowieE View Post
No Ron you have not misquoted anything it is just that you have no understanding of what you are reading. It would be nice if you could separate comments made with regard to a bar type WD hitch and those directed to the Andersen.

Maintaining steering geometry does not infer that the front axle has to be dropped at all. If one has returned the front axle to within the normal limits as designed that's it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HowieE View Post
There is no single answer as to how to adjust a WD hitch. It is a function of the spring rate of the TV. The important consideration is to maintain the steering geometry of the front axle. Too little or too much transferred to the front axle will cause problems. Too little equals a lose of steering control. Too much will cause tire problems.

I generally try for a 60/40 ratio in depression of the fender heights. This will change depending on the springs of the TV.
Howie, please help me to understand.

Does the first paragraph of the second quote refer to maintaining the steering geometry of the front axle?
Does the first paragraph of the second quote also imply there is an optimum amount of load which should be transferred to the front axle -- too little causing loss of steering control and too much causing tire problems?

Does the second paragraph of the second quote have any connection to the first paragraph?
IOW, is it correct to infer that you considered a "60/40 ratio in depression of the fender heights" would give the correct amount of load transfer to the front axle and therefore maintain the correct steering geometry?

Thanks for helping me to understand what I am reading.

Ron
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Old 07-21-2013, 11:26 AM   #2220
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And the friction anti-sway helps when I go thru the high winds near Palm Springs.On our way home from thousands and thousands of miles of travel we did go thru the fierce winds of the Palm Springs wind farm. The Andersen Hitch held up like a breeze. We were apprehensive a bit beforehand but that's about it, it held as designed. Actually stayed in one of those hot springs resorts for a much needed rest/ relaxation for a couple days.
We're in the process of prolonging our travels because the Andersen Hitch held so well that it has given us peace of mind.
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