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Old 06-08-2012, 12:21 PM   #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wazbro View Post
With a standard WD system the ball has little to do with the WD force.
The end of the spring bar in the hitch head is the fulcrum the bottom of the bar pulls back on the hitch head and the top of the bar pushes forward on the hitch head.
With a "regular" WD hitch the two ends of the lever are the two ends of the bars. One side on vertical chains and the other in the bottom of the hitch head.

With the Andersen the two ends of the lever are the back of the ball and the bottom of the hitch pulled by chains. The back of the ball is under additional load here.

<done>
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Old 06-08-2012, 01:06 PM   #128
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Originally Posted by Sean Woodruff View Post

How does the ball lock into the coupler and not pivot?

The ball is locked to the coupling through the plate at the bottom of the shaft. The Ball doesn't Rotate in the coupling with the exception the motion cause by differences in vertical angle caused by incline difference in the road and any side to side roll that ground differences may be presence. This in very minimal.

I understand the sway damping material is on the ball shaft. However, if the ball can still rotate in the coupler it really will not matter if the rotational force is greater than the force the material can apply.

It can not Rotate in the coupling

Also, if the ball is locked into the coupler so it does not rotate, how do you turn a corner? Does turning the corner work against the sway damping material on the shaft of the hitch ball?

The angular differences between the TV and the trailer during a turn are taken up in the tapered shaft against the brake material. The same force that stops sway. The force of the truck steering in enough to overcome the braking force within the braking material while sway is not.

Since it was said earlier this was a HAHA killer my ears perked up... you know I'm all about HAHA killing.

I should not have limited my comment to HAHA Sean you are now in the boat with them on this one.

(I kid, I kid... wait, maybe I don't)
Things are a CHANGEN
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Old 06-08-2012, 01:25 PM   #129
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Scale numbers reveal what the Mark One Eyeball misses. And height measurements are a nice way to rough-in any WDH, best done prior to departing for the scale. Anything less than this is itself deceptive as small changes over the whole of the rig can have large effects when it matters. It is all a question of force, of leverage.

(As to the AIRSAFE: Want to make the case for it? Cover the angles. Numbers are basic. How does it affect the WDH settings?, is a normal enough question. And not part of this thread except that anecdote makes no case in itself).

The number of screw turns on the ANDERSEN (or measured with calipers; probably a better method) on a particular rig -- showing otherwise good WD -- is a simple demonstration. Scale tickets help us ferret out discrepancies. Tire pressures, etc, are all just a matter of formula as a beginning which also rely on numerical values to help sort handling & braking.

But without numbers there is not ever actually that beginning.

.
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Old 06-08-2012, 01:56 PM   #130
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When we get down to the level of caution that would require return trips to the scale before each trip we are getting into individual personalities not mechanical necessities . Of the four groups that define personalities the Steady is at one end, those that have "property of their name" printed on the bottom of their office desk name sign, and the Dominate is at the other. Our company once held a personality evaluation session to improve the inter actions between managers. Mine came out between Al Hague and Attila the Hun.

One trip to the scales was enough whether I have 1 or 5 grandchildren in the back seat. That level of detail is lost in the noise.
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Old 06-08-2012, 01:56 PM   #131
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Ok, I talk with Dave at Andersen for awhile this morning and got some Interesting Information.

First: SteveH I owe you an apology, it does put force on the ball differently than a Regular WD. It also pulls the trailer more into the TV than a regular WD does.

The Force put on the Ball is not straight forward though. It is more of a down and forward angel. So Dave says the ball is driven up into the back top of the Coupler and not into the locking mechanism itself. (he also mention that the locks on any camping or large car, horse trailers are built to withstand any type of force like stopping or the ball being driven into it.)

In fact he said you can lift up on the coupler (most times) and have the lock hit the bottom of the ball. ( and thats what it is designed to do, stop the ball from coming out) He said it was the least thing they were worried about, and the force of stopping puts far more stress on the lock than their hitch ever does.

It didn't really seem to be a concern to him, After their thousands of miles of testing.

I also asked about the braking sleeve. He said they had run tests and sent it out to an independent tester. After 250,000 miles worth of twisting it showed no ware. He said it is still running in their swivel testing machine. (It has a life time warranty)

Also the rubber gaskets have not worn out after the same testing. I believe he said they would replace those free too. Should have asked about UV ware on them.

Dave said there is a guy in Ca towing a 22" AS with a Mercedes suv and had to back the nuts off the recommended setting because it was putting to much weight on the front wheels and making it hard to turn. But the Treads pretty much have infonaut adjustment in them to whatever weight / force you want.

I also asked about the bolts and threads. He seemed unconcerned as they have been tested past what they believe any stress on them could be and they didn't fail or show signs of failure.

they not only have tested it, but they have had and independent tester test it all too..

So I think thats about it. I'm sure there will be more discussion though.

So at this point, I think most concerns could be put to rest. (but won't) and we should start testing this thing.

If there are still concerns I say go buy one and start testing it yourself before we start making any more assumptions on what it does and does not do.


Dave said; "the fact that it is light weight, no grease, built in sway control, easy on and off, and doesn't make noise is what the selling points are."


Dave also said he would talk to anyone about it and any concerns they have.


I did forget to ask about the Made in China thing. But I'm sure they buy some of there stuff from US distributors and who knows where they get stuff. But everything has been tested.

I'll be getting mine and testing it on our trip to the Oregon Coast.

Through high mountain passes
Hot desert plains with high side winds
Up and down steep grades
and winding narrow costal roads

It will be about a 3000+ mile trip.
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Old 06-08-2012, 02:00 PM   #132
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Just remember the ball is under load with a traditional WD too. And not just straight down on it. It is slightly down and forward/ into the lock too. It doesn't just pull it down.. but not as much as the Andersen.
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Old 06-08-2012, 02:09 PM   #133
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Red' I'm not into numbers and scales. I use an Equal-I-Zer whose maker only gives fender measurements as a set-up procedure. No matter how I loaded, where I am, I can walk out with my tape and see if it still is decent. Fifth wheel pullers don't use any weight distribution, but we don't pull off the road when we see them coming. I carry loads in my truck and car without weight distribution, no choice.

I respect those who dial in perfect numbers each load but you make it sound like everyone who doesn't (most) is negligent. Less-than-perfect is how things go most of the time.

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Old 06-08-2012, 02:17 PM   #134
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In fairness to Propride and Hensley, Andersen is still a friction sway dampening hitch. Andersen and the others do not eliminate sway as the PP and HaHa do and therefore remain the premium hitches.

My interest is in the low price, simplicity, and light weight (as age is getting to me).

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Old 06-08-2012, 02:41 PM   #135
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I was once on this board accused of "disregarding" the "experts" because I made a personal decision to not concern myself with their numbers and instead base my purshase on real world use and my own experience.
Well I did it again bought the Andersen system. No regrets what so ever. It is a perfect system for my TV/trailer combination. I don't need to waste my time by going to a scale. For the people that want someone to do that, I say put your money where your mouth is, buy a system and do it yourself. The system has a 90 day return guarantee. If it does not meet your expectations it can be returned.
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Old 06-08-2012, 02:53 PM   #136
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Dave, If you are reading this I would be willing to test and evaluate this hitch with comprehensive user posts. I now have a HAHA and while I love what it does, I do not like the ungainly apperance and weight.
I'll make you a deal. I'll do the consumer testing, document my thoughts on this thread (I'm a mechanical engineer) and write a final unbiased evaluation based on my experience. All you have to do is send me a hitch.........

Kindest regards,
Dan
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Old 06-08-2012, 02:55 PM   #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by purman
Ok, I talk with Dave at Andersen for awhile this morning and got some Interesting Information.

First: SteveH I owe you an apology, it does put force on the ball differently than a Regular WD. It also pulls the trailer more into the TV than a regular WD does.

The Force put on the Ball is not straight forward though. It is more of a down and forward angel. So Dave says the ball is driven up into the back top of the Coupler and not into the locking mechanism itself. (he also mention that the locks on any camping or large car, horse trailers are built to withstand any type of force like stopping or the ball being driven into it.)

In fact he said you can lift up on the coupler (most times) and have the lock hit the bottom of the ball. ( and thats what it is designed to do, stop the ball from coming out) He said it was the least thing they were worried about, and the force of stopping puts far more stress on the lock than their hitch ever does.

It didn't really seem to be a concern to him, After their thousands of miles of testing.

I also asked about the braking sleeve. He said they had run tests and sent it out to an independent tester. After 250,000 miles worth of twisting it showed no ware. He said it is still running in their swivel testing machine. (It has a life time warranty)

Also the rubber gaskets have not worn out after the same testing. I believe he said they would replace those free too. Should have asked about UV ware on them.

Dave said there is a guy in Ca towing a 22" AS with a Mercedes suv and had to back the nuts off the recommended setting because it was putting to much weight on the front wheels and making it hard to turn. But the Treads pretty much have infonaut adjustment in them to whatever weight / force you want.

I also asked about the bolts and threads. He seemed unconcerned as they have been tested past what they believe any stress on them could be and they didn't fail or show signs of failure.

they not only have tested it, but they have had and independent tester test it all too..

So I think thats about it. I'm sure there will be more discussion though.

So at this point, I think most concerns could be put to rest. (but won't) and we should start testing this thing.

If there are still concerns I say go buy one and start testing it yourself before we start making any more assumptions on what it does and does not do.

Dave said; "the fact that it is light weight, no grease, built in sway control, easy on and off, and doesn't make noise is what the selling points are."

Dave also said he would talk to anyone about it and any concerns they have.

I did forget to ask about the Made in China thing. But I'm sure they buy some of there stuff from US distributors and who knows where they get stuff. But everything has been tested.

I'll be getting mine and testing it on our trip to the Oregon Coast.

Through high mountain passes
Hot desert plains with high side winds
Up and down steep grades
and winding narrow costal roads

It will be about a 3000+ mile trip.
Great information. Thanks for sharing this.
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Old 06-08-2012, 03:04 PM   #138
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Yes.. Thanks Jason. I think this is where we were headed the whole time. Lets here from Dave and get his thoughts.

Good feedback. Cant wait to hear some from the end users.

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Old 06-08-2012, 03:28 PM   #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AWCHIEF View Post
Well I did it again bought the Andersen system. No regrets what so ever. It is a perfect system for my TV/trailer combination. I don't need to waste my time by going to a scale. For the people that want someone to do that, I say put your money where your mouth is, buy a system and do it yourself. The system has a 90 day return guarantee. If it does not meet your expectations it can be returned.
I will have my Andersen delivered next week. I will have to take it to the scales to set it up properly as my 2012 Jeep Grand Cherokee has full 4 corner self leveling air suspension and I cannot judge the weight transfer by the rise or drop of the TV body. The Jeep Air Suspension system masks that.

Weight transfer on the Jeep is done with a regular WD hitch I found, but one cannot judge it in the "normal" way. It can only be determined by the measured weights on the two TV axles and the one on the trailer. So, I will have numbers available soon after my initial setup. One should be able to compare them with those I had with my Reese/Draw Tight WD setup.

As for the coupler forces, I think, after evaluation in my mind, that the Andersen will not be any more wearing on the rear of the coupler and latching mechanism than the forces of a trailer pushing on the TV in any downhill situation. Since the coupler is locked in place and the ball no longer is the rotation point, in fact there might be even less wear than with a normal WD or non WD situation.

Great discussions here. It will be fun to contribute real life experiences soon.
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Old 06-08-2012, 03:37 PM   #140
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Dave said they try to stay off the forums as it can become a full time job. But if you have a question the number is on their web page.
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