sway control?

[Diesel1]

Originally Posted by Minnie's Mate

You may not need weight distribution on your truck. The stiff suspension will make it difficult to affectively transfer weight to the front. However, you can get sway hitches that do not distribute weight. Not being an expert, I can't tell you that you do or do not need sway control, but if it were me, I'd feel a lot safer with the insurance of having it than not. Like I said earlier (my personal opinion), when a law suit is filed is too late to install it.

Just my $.02.

At the Arizona Proving Ground we tested pickup trucks, and SUVs. Duribility testing it was called. We ran tens of thousands of miles of trailer tow annually on public highways with trailers loaded to GVW for that particular rig.To my knowledge we never used sway control. I'm thinking if lawsuits were an issue we would have used such equipment.
Adios, John

[Inland RV Center, In]

Originally Posted by Diesel1

At the Arizona Proving Ground we tested pickup trucks, and SUVs. Duribility testing it was called. We ran tens of thousands of miles of trailer tow annually on public highways with trailers loaded to GVW for that particular rig.To my knowledge we never used sway control. I'm thinking if lawsuits were an issue we would have used such equipment.
Adios, John

A sway control, is like insurance. None of us needs it, until something happens.

When you don't need it, it's a waste of money.

BUT when you do need it, it's way too late. All to many times, owners like that say "I should have listened".

The vast majority of people that tow travel trailers, have a sway control.

The vast minority, that don't believe in them, don't.

Ever wonder why it's that way???

It is dollars? Could it be they have a magic truck? Could it be they love crossing the line? Could it be they don't really know? Or, could it be, they don't really care???

Andy

[Minnie's Mate]

Originally Posted by Diesel1

At the Arizona Proving Ground we tested pickup trucks, and SUVs. Duribility testing it was called. We ran tens of thousands of miles of trailer tow annually on public highways with trailers loaded to GVW for that particular rig.To my knowledge we never used sway control. I'm thinking if lawsuits were an issue we would have used such equipment.
Adios, John

Were they tests on closed loops that had no public access? Were they trailers that typically have sway control on public roads (boat trailer vs. travel trailer)? Are we more litigious now that we were then?

If closed loops, then any injuries would have been covered by Worker's Comp and probably no lawsuits would have pursued. Just my guess.

[Ahzmyrah]

Don't know what year your F250 Ford is but in the owners manual for my 2005 it has a section about trailer towing and weights. Check out the difference your T/V manufacturer shows for allowed GVWR and tongue weight equalized and non-equalized. Your tongue weight alone is heavy than allowed unequalized. Sometimes insurance adjusters get mighty picky about settling claims when you technically are operating the vehicle overloaded. I'm not a fan of insurance companies or lawyers but sometimes there is a reason they post safe operation specs. Good Luck

[RickDavis]

All new trailers delivered to dealers are towed with out sway control which is an aftermarket accessory. I have towed several 100 K delivering new trailers using a load equalizing hitch but no sway control with never a problem. I use a 3/4 ton truck which is lighter than yours. I do not ever exceed the 60 or 65 mph speed range because when things go wrong they happen fast. I do not use sway control on my tradewind which is the trailer I use most.
Common sense driving is the key.

While the transport company I work for has occasionally wrecked a trailer I don't personally know of any that were sway related

While it is an individual choice, with your rig I would be quite comfortable with out it.

Do I need to put a bunch of legal disclaimers here ???

[Road Ruler]

It all boils down to reducing the risk.

WDH's,
sway control devices,
high end hitches (ie Hensley),
modern vehicles with electronic stability controls and ABS brakes

are all products that "reduce the risk" of a negative incident. In many cases they also improve the overall ride (towing experience) immensely.

For the extra cost these products are a steal/deal!

[SSChanger]

I have the privilege of working for NASA. We have a saying: "Gravity--it's not just a good idea, it's the Law!"

The laws of physics may seem to be tempted, ignored, circumvented, or, as most usually preceeds catastrophy, just not fully comprehended. But they are the law and will prevail.

So for me and my rig: No anti-sway, No Drive-away! We use the Reese Dual Cam system, and it's been a good deal, except the one time I hooked it up wrong and it scared me...six links on one side, seven on the other...

Good luck and best wishes!

[Lumatic]

Originally Posted by SSChanger

I have the privilege of working for NASA. We have a saying: "Gravity--it's not just a good idea, it's the Law!"

The laws of physics may seem to be tempted, ignored, circumvented, or, as most usually preceeds catastrophy, just not fully comprehended. But they are the law and will prevail.

I thought Albert put that to rest. Gravity as an attractive force between objects is actually misperception of the warping of the space/ time continuum. Sway must fit in there somewhere

[barts]

Originally Posted by Ahzmyrah

Don't know what year your F250 Ford is but in the owners manual for my 2005 it has a section about trailer towing and weights. Check out the difference your T/V manufacturer shows for allowed GVWR and tongue weight equalized and non-equalized. Your tongue weight alone is heavy than allowed unequalized.

Actually, the tongue weight of my 1971 Airstream is supposedly 455 lbs, and the total weight on the order of 4200 lbs. These are both well within the capacity of our 1996 w/o a weight equalizing hitch.

- Bart

[SSChanger]

The sway we occasionally experience will certainly warp our time/space continuum...If it gets bad enough, it may even End our time/space continuum. I wonder if we'll need anti-sway bars in space...

[ROBERT CROSS]

Originally Posted by barts

Actually, the tongue weight of my 1971 Airstream is supposedly 455 lbs, and the total weight on the order of 4200 lbs. These are both well within the capacity of our 1996 w/o a weight equalizing hitch.

- Bart

Bart,

I was VERY surprised the first time I weighed the tongue fully loaded for camping. An estimate of approximately 800lbs went to an actual of 1125lbs.

Be careful with guesstimates.

Stream Safe

[85MH325]

And for the new members or folks who have never experienced a severe sway event, this is casually known as 'truck suck' and is NOT a sway event; however, it can certainly initiate or trigger a sway event. Truck suck can be controlled, and is caused from a variety of factors; however I'd suggest that more tongue weight would limit that effect. I used to experience that with my 34' tri-axle and my Excursion. Once I installed both body anti-sway bars and radius rods on the Excursion, the phenomenon stopped; indicating that the rear axle steering of the Excursion was allowing the 'truck suck' to occur.

A sway event, OTOH, can be a phenomenon that causes you to lose control of your vehicle before you understand what's happening. It can happen VERY quickly, and when it does, you're usually just along for the ride. Don't confuse an occasional "wiggle" while going down the road with trailer sway.

Originally Posted by kennethowens

While reading about an accident in a recent thread, I had also
noticed concerning movements when 18 wheelers passed me
going in the same direction.
Attached Images

[Inland RV Center, In]

Originally Posted by barts

Actually, the tongue weight of my 1971 Airstream is supposedly 455 lbs, and the total weight on the order of 4200 lbs. These are both well within the capacity of our 1996 w/o a weight equalizing hitch.

- Bart

Those weights, have absolutely nothing to do with sway, or sway control.

Those weights have to do with towing capacity of the TV, nothing more.

If you feel that sway control, is a myth, then I would love to watch what you would do on a teeter taughter, if you were on one end, and an 80 pound person was on the other end, starting off with the board centered. The other person would have no control.

Then, what would you do, if a 400 pound person was on the other end, with you at the opposite end. You would sort of feel helpless, since then, you would have zero control.

Same thing with sway control. Part of the weights "MUST" be redistributed. If not, then your asking, for trouble on a red carpet, and it "WILL" find you faster than you think.

What you are also disagreeing with, is the hundreds of thousands of owners, that totally disagree with you.

Tell your liability insurance company that you tow your Airstream, with total disregard for RV towing safety issues, and then see what they say.

Andy

[Diesel1]

Originally Posted by Minnie's Mate

Were they tests on closed loops that had no public access? Were they trailers that typically have sway control on public roads (boat trailer vs. travel trailer)? Are we more litigious now that we were then?

If closed loops, then any injuries would have been covered by Worker's Comp and probably no lawsuits would have pursued. Just my guess.

The tests were and are on public highways as I stated in the referanced post. They are not a closed loop(we do those types of tests also). The trucks and trailers are loaded the same whether on the track or on the public open highway. We are currently still doing the same tests.
I have expereanced a severe sway event,I grossly misloaded a trailer very tongue light.I learned a lot from those few seconds of terror.And am gratefull to be alive through no skill of my own. Divine providence took care of me that day.
But back to the origanal questain, can anyone provide me with a documented case of loss of control due to sway with the original posters rig?A 1996 F250 7.3 DIT 4x4 crew cab ( that is four doors) pulling a properly loaded 4500# double axle trailer with 10-15% tongue weight. He wanted to know if he needs sway control, I contend he does not.
Adios, John

[ROBERT CROSS]

Originally Posted by barts

Actually, the tongue weight of my 1971 Airstream is supposedly 455 lbs, and the total weight on the order of 4200 lbs. These are both well within the capacity of our 1996 w/o a weight equalizing hitch.

- Bart

I don't think this post was about sway.

I read it as a w/d issue.

I DO confuse that occasional "wiggle" as sway, that's exactly what it is, whether caused by a semi, severe cross-wind, improper loading, lack of sufficient wd, tires, suspension issues, road joints, uneven shoulder or situational awareness.

In any case, whatever it's called, and whatever the cause, attempts to get rid of it must be successful.

[Diesel1]

The title of the thread is sway control, and the OP talks about sway conrtrol in his first post. Adios, John

[ROBERT CROSS]

Originally Posted by barts

Actually, the tongue weight of my 1971 Airstream is supposedly 455 lbs, and the total weight on the order of 4200 lbs. These are both well within the capacity of our 1996 w/o a weight equalizing hitch.

- Bart

Yes... but I wasn't referring to the first post.

My bad, I thought this quote was about wd.

[Inland RV Center, In]

Originally Posted by Diesel1

But back to the origanal questain, can anyone provide me with a documented case of loss of control due to sway with the original posters rig?A 1996 F250 7.3 DIT 4x4 crew cab ( that is four doors) pulling a properly loaded 4500# double axle trailer with 10-15% tongue weight. He wanted to know if he needs sway control, I contend he does not.
Adios, John

Professional drivers/towers are very far removed from the general public.

But, proper rigging for "SAFE" towing, demands proper equipment.

Documentation of exact circumstances, is a cop out.

Physic is physics, you do not need documentation.

I ran into a guy, many years ago, that questioned "why do you need a parachute" just because you want to sky dive.

Same thing without at least a good sway control.

Want to ignore facts?? That's OK. But have all your passengers, sign a waiver, "FOR THEIR SAKE", not yours.

Being open minded about sway control, is a good thing.

Having a closed mind about sway control, is a bad thing.

Personally, I would not ride in someones TV, while they are towing, unless "PROPERLY" rigged.

Having investigated over 1000 loss of control accidents, while towing an Airstream, as I have, is not something to sneeze at, as some do.

There are so many things in life, that a select few, even college graduates, that think speeding is ok, drunk driving is ok, target shooting at people is ok, hey, they do that in Mexico several times each day, crossing a street against traffic and not in a crosswalk is ok, running bald tires is ok, an LPG leak is ok because it's a small one is ok, walking on glass is ok, and water too, the list goes on and on.

Foolish things humans do, in and with their lives, and how the sometimes place innocent people at risk, keeps undertakers busy even during bad economic times.

Today, many commercial airline pilots, show up for duty, while drunk. Hey who cares, the plane has an "auto pilot".
I wonder how many people out of one million, would knowingly fly in a plane, when piloted by a drunk????

Very very few, if any.

To me, towing a travel trailer, improperly rigged, is somewhat the same as driving when drunk. Something can and will happen, totally unexpected, that they will not be able to have complete control over.

Then, it's way to late, but the folks that sell those boxes, will still accept you, with open arms.

To not at least try a sway control, so that they can see and feel the difference, is fool hardy from the get go.

Andy

[Diesel1]

Andy I am acually a fan of your years of wisdom and your business. I have bought a remarkable amount of parts from you and will continue to do so. That being said your line of reasoning means all old Airstreams and all old vehicles in generall should be scrapped or at least parked. Disc brakes, ABS brakes, electronic traction control,some people feel these should be manditory.
Just because a lot of people even "experts" say something does not make it true. I have no dought about your expertise, I do however quistion its correctness. Of the 1000 accidents in your experiance( your claim to expertness) how many are sway induced from a properly loaded trailer? That is not ducking the issue as you seem to feel. I have told you how I arrived at my opinion, Years of personal experiance (some good some bad),and the fact that at least one of the big three auto makers does not use sway control on any of their testing trailers. And no the drivers are not trained, a drivers license( CDL not required) and a DOT phsical to indicate that you might not have a heart attack. Several of the drivers as of three years ago were in their 70's.
Oh and thanks for the good debate I for one am thourghly enjoying it.
Adios, John

[RickDavis]

Originally Posted by Inland RV Center, In

Professional drivers/towers are very far removed from the general public.
Being open minded about sway control, is a good thing.

Having a closed mind about sway control, is a bad thing.

Personally, I would not ride in someones TV, while they are towing, unless "PROPERLY" rigged.

To not at least try a sway control, so that they can see and feel the difference, is fool hardy from the get go.

Andy

As mentioned in my earlier post, all travel trailers that are delivered to dealers are towed with out sway control.
Transport companies rack up millions of miles every year and accidental are rare.
When I started as a transporter I was shocked that no sway control was used. Let me emphasis however that Load equalizing hitches are used.
After several years of this I took off to Alaska, with a friction sway control on the 22ft Safari I had at the time and ended up removing it after a few hundred miles because things didn't feel right to me.

At what point does one become a professional tower/ driver? Admittedly we drive a lot more miles than the average week end camper and maybe we do develop a little better feel for what is happening, but after a few month off it still feels funny the first few miles.

I don't discourage anyone from using these devices, I have them on some of my trailers but I think in some cases they are very oversold. Like a Hensley on a 21 footer
Common sense driving is the most important safety factor, reasonable speeds, minimum lane changes and lots of open space in front.

We have all seen improperly loaded utility trailers swaying all over the road but I can't say I have ever delivered a travel trailer that was a "swayer" regardless of brand
I tow with a typical 3/4 ton truck
On the other hand there might not be enough safety devices for the guy with the 34 footer and the Ford windstar van. But he does seem to get to Florida every year.

Andy, I do agree that one should be open minded and maybe give it a try.
I even brought an Airstream to you 5 or 6 years ago (without sway control).
I appreciate the time you took to show me your shop. Very impressive