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Old 01-16-2010, 09:56 AM   #85
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Bart,
Your truck is obviously high in the front, and low in the rear from the tongue weight of the trailer way back behind the bumper.
SteveH, How is the truck "obviously high in the front, and low in the rear"? I see the angeled photo in post #77. I just don't see anything obvious about it. It's taken from the front at an angle and the whole setup is off the road. How does the truck normally sit? I don't know because there is no photo. I'm not saying the Bart does not need WD with anti-sway...I just don't see anything thats obvious from the one photo. Am I missing something?
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Old 01-16-2010, 10:13 AM   #86
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Another can of worms

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I don't want to end up w/ a overly stiff setup as that just punishes the trailer - it doesn't want to try and lift the back of my rig off the ground, esp. when loaded for Burning Man, so getting the right stiffness bars seems important.

- Bart
To a lesser degree there has been an us vs them debate about using Airsafe or Airride hitches. There is an opinion out there that a stiffly sprung 3/4 or 1 ton will transfer more road shock to the trailer and cause damage to the trailer. These hitches have an air bag shock absorber and largely isolate the trailer from road shock from the TV. Class IV and V can be used with WD hitches and sway bars. The air hitch also makes the spring bar rating less of a factor because it does much of this work. By adding or bleeding air you can also control the hitch height. Attached is a photo of my Airsafe class V with a Husky WD hitch attached.
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Old 01-16-2010, 10:13 AM   #87
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Originally Posted by silverleeper View Post
SteveH, How is the truck "obviously high in the front, and low in the rear"? I see the angeled photo in post #77. I just don't see anything obvious about it. It's taken from the front at an angle and the whole setup is off the road. How does the truck normally sit? I don't know because there is no photo. I'm not saying the Bart does not need WD with anti-sway...I just don't see anything thats obvious from the one photo. Am I missing something?
Lee.

The front of the TV is high as well as the front of the trailer.

I can enlarge the photo 400 percent, then the positions are much more pronounced.

That suggests that, for one, ball height is incorrect.

But in this specific case, the condition of the axles isn't helping either.

Andy
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Old 01-16-2010, 10:53 AM   #88
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Originally Posted by Inland RV Center, In View Post
Lee.

The front of the TV is high as well as the front of the trailer.

I can enlarge the photo 400 percent, then the positions are much more pronounced.

That suggests that, for one, ball height is incorrect.

But in this specific case, the condition of the axles isn't helping either.

Andy
Sorry, The one photo is just not enough for me to make any assumptions.
Like I stated before. It's an angeled photo giving a one point perspective. Meaning that the front of the truck will appear larger the back all the way to the right including the trailer. "Perspective (from Latin perspicere, to see through) in the graphic arts, such as drawing, is an approximate representation, on a flat surface (such as paper), of an image as it is perceived by the eye. The two most characteristic features of perspective are that objects are drawn"
  • Smaller as their distance from the observer increases
  • Foreshortened: the size of an object's dimensions along the line of sight are relatively shorter than dimensions across the line of sight

Now put the setup in flat ground and a direct side angle and I would be a believer. It's probably best just to do a scale test and see what going on.
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Old 01-16-2010, 11:25 AM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inland RV Center, In View Post
Lee.

The front of the TV is high as well as the front of the trailer.

I can enlarge the photo 400 percent, then the positions are much more pronounced.

That suggests that, for one, ball height is incorrect.

But in this specific case, the condition of the axles isn't helping either.

Andy
New axles (& tires) are on the list of things to do.... this one's a project.

There's a 2" drop tow bar used in the picture; on flat level ground the trailer is level so so I think the ball height is about right when loaded.

How much would new axles raise the trailer?

The front of the truck will drop a bit when we're in the cab (the two of us weight about the same as the tongue weight...); the rear springs are quite progressive to smooth out the ride empty and she always drops a bit initially. Here the ball drops perhaps 1.5 or 2 inches w/ the tongue weight applied.

Thanks for the info on the bars; I'll check it out today...

- Bart
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Old 01-16-2010, 11:59 AM   #90
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Originally Posted by barts View Post
New axles (& tires) are on the list of things to do.... this one's a project.

There's a 2" drop tow bar used in the picture; on flat level ground the trailer is level so so I think the ball height is about right when loaded.

How much would new axles raise the trailer?

The front of the truck will drop a bit when we're in the cab (the two of us weight about the same as the tongue weight...); the rear springs are quite progressive to smooth out the ride empty and she always drops a bit initially. Here the ball drops perhaps 1.5 or 2 inches w/ the tongue weight applied.

Thanks for the info on the bars; I'll check it out today...

- Bart
The front of the truck will drop properly, when you use a properload equalizing hitch, properly installed and properly adjusted.

I cannot speak for other brands but a Henschen axle will raise the trailer about 3 inches.

The ball drop you have, is absolutely perfect, in that now you can take real advantage of a load equalizing hitch. The torsion bars will pick up that drop, "AND" redistribute the weight.

When the ball hardly drops, that when trouble starts.

Andy
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Old 01-16-2010, 12:33 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by silverleeper View Post
SteveH, How is the truck "obviously high in the front, and low in the rear"? I see the angeled photo in post #77. I just don't see anything obvious about it. It's taken from the front at an angle and the whole setup is off the road. How does the truck normally sit? I don't know because there is no photo. I'm not saying the Bart does not need WD with anti-sway...I just don't see anything thats obvious from the one photo. Am I missing something?
Lee,

You are right that the picture is at an angle, but look at the distance between the fender and the top of the tire, both front and rear, vers the size of the tire. That shows me it is obviously high in the front and low in the rear.
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Old 01-16-2010, 01:01 PM   #92
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bart, i knew that picture was gonna open a new can o'worms...

nice job!

the BEST way to determine if your set up is level (looks great to me)...

is to mix and then bake a chocolate cake in the trailer oven...

square cake pans are more revealing of 'levelness' but round will work too...

just make the determination BEFORE frosting the cake...

cheers
2air'

on edit...

using satellite imagery and reverse angle photo gensu'chopping...

the rear curbside trailer tire is 6 psi low and your washer fluid is down 2 quarts, on the truck.

and i see a small bag of oregano stashed in the trailer furnace shrowd...
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Old 01-17-2010, 12:33 AM   #93
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Sounds like the best anti-disestablishment-sway-control to me. Add that baggie of oregano to your brownies and you'll forget all about hooka'ing up the trailer . Maybe this discussion should switch to "How Many People Actually Use Their Oven?"
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Old 01-17-2010, 07:43 AM   #94
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No...."how many people use uncommon sense"
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Old 01-17-2010, 11:14 AM   #95
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Newbie Question

I have read this thread with great interest, mainly because I am shopping for a hitch for my Ford Crown Victoria. I will be pulling a 1968 Caravel.

Up until now the only trailers I have ever pulled were small U-Hauls. My car had a Class II hitch and a 1-7/8" ball. Nothing else. I realize that these have little in common with a travel trailer and the U-Haul towing experience means very little when it comes to towing my Caravel.

Before I started reading I already decided that I am going to use both a WD hitch and an anti-sway bar. The arguments I read against using this equipment were to no avail and I am even firmer in my resolve to use them.

I see the Reese W/D hitch and the Twin Cam antiisway system selling for about $500.00 online. Then I see ads for the Hensley "Cub" and other high-end hitches going for 2.2 KiloBucks. I am sure there must be a difference for the higher cost.

First and foremost I am interested in safety. My family will be riding with me and that's the most important thing in the world to me. Do these high-end hitches really buy me more safety?

I have a lot to learn but I am thinking that this equipment must be properly installed and adjusted. However, once this is done is it necessary to "tweak" the adjustments if the weight parameters remain the same or is it "once it's set up it's okay"?
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Old 01-17-2010, 12:30 PM   #96
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Mike,

I think "buy me more safety" might be the rong approach.

Promote safety...definitely, but carelessness can defeat any amount of money spent.

The Hensley and ProPride are the only offerings on the market that will eliminate trailer sway. But sway is just one area of concern.
The MOST important area is between the ears.

Bob
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Old 01-17-2010, 02:06 PM   #97
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First and foremost I am interested in safety. My family will be riding with me and that's the most important thing in the world to me. Do these high-end hitches really buy me more safety?
I can't help you w/ the benefits of the anti-sway technologies as I've not used any, but if you're concerned w/ safety, make sure:

0) Your trailer must always loaded w/ plenty of weight on the tongue. Since that's likely a single axle trailer, this is even more important since the damping effect of dual axles isn't present. Inadequate tongue weight is the primary cause of uncontrollable trailer oscillations - it pops right out of the stability equations. If maintaining 12-15% of the trailer weight on the tongue means you need a different hitch or tow vehicle - so be it.

1) Stay comfortably within the ratings of car and trailer in terms of weight, and obey the trailering speed limits. Many people get into grief because they descend hills too quickly - remember, go down the hill in the same gear you climbed it.

2) Keep the tires on both vehicles properly inflated, and watch for any tire issues particularly on the trailer. Whenever you stop, check the tire temperature with your hand....

3) Make sure to have properly working and well maintained trailer brakes and a good controller in the TV.

4) Learn how your rig handles before you find yourself in trouble. If you give a brief displacement to the steering wheel, does the rig oscillate back and forth? If you counter-steer, does the problem get worse or better? Some reported problems with trailer sway are actually "pilot induced oscillations", perhaps in reaction to a delay in vehicle response to steering input.

- Bart
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Old 01-19-2010, 06:08 AM   #98
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I also own and tow an enclosed dual wheel utility trailer that is 16' X 8' that has a GVW that is about the same as the A/S. The utility trailer has no equalized hitch or sway control and because of its construction it cannot even be retrofitted

If it is a pole trailer, then, indeed, a WDH can be retrofitted. If it is of the "bent arm" style, then . . . ?

Pole Tongue Adapter and Fastener Kit 3280 - etrailer.com

I've not ever been able to understand why anyone wouldn't want to minimize risk in towing. Get the best hitch, set it up properly -- be painstaking -- and enjoy the trip.

The idea that a big ol' pickemup is the answer isn't. Lousy stability, poor feel through the steering, and on and on. I have one, doesn't change the equation. They're lousy on the highway no matter how they are configured.

And I have yet to follow a TT down the highway and not see movement side-to-side. (I also have yet to see a PP or HA hitch on the road in making these comments). A pickup may be suitable according to weight and wheelbase but why tempt fate? Throw in bad road surface, worsening traffic and wind/rain. Driver who is distracted momentarily, maybe already feeling out-of-sorts.

I find it a given that folks, in these threads, always assume that the drivers' condition is ideal, and that's foolishness.

I've pulled my trailer with and without WDH and without any sway control. I can twitch the tail of the trailer right into the other lane with the flick of the wrist. With an HA, that's about impossible.

If the trailer decides to go over it'll probably take the truck with it. Happens all the time. Cut the risk. If all the gold-plated hitch does is reduce the "felt effect" at the steering wheel, then it has served a purpose to the good.

If I was an RV transporter I'd install a PULL RITE and be done with it.
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