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Old 01-15-2010, 07:13 AM   #57
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I find that my 20' 4x4 doesn't lend itself to quick lane changes, pulling a trailer or not. As a result, I find the best accident avoidance strategy is pretty simple - slow down, and leave plenty of distance between me and the vehicle in front. Yes, that's tricky in traffic, since people cut in a lot, but that's ok; I'd rather leave the room so I can stop my rig if I need to... Bart
Yes, a number of good reasons why sway control and or control/stabilization systems are being suggested and recommended.
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Old 01-15-2010, 08:47 AM   #58
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Tow your 24 foot trailer with just a ball, and with a car and watch waht happens, as you get to 30 mph!!!!!!

My answer was not intended to be for a specific person or rig, but it was intended to let others know what can, "AND DOES" happen.

If in your case, your rig handles different, hooray for you. But how your rig handles, has nothing to do with others, especially since many owners tow trailers much longer than yours, and therefore can experience problems, that quite well, you never have.

That then, removes my comment from the BS status, that you assigned to it, to the status of sharing information that "DOES INDEED" apply to some.

I see people with all types of travel trailers, tow vehicles and rigging, very often. I do not intend to always be specific to Airstreams.

Andy
Andy thanks for reinforcing my position. I am being very specific when I responed to the OP. He is not towing with a car. He is towing with a very heavy duty setup.I am not knocking sway control, I am knocking the idea that the knee jerk answer to every one who asks about sway control is the same. He asked a very specific question, about a very specific rig.
And I have not heard one comment yet as to why a major auto manufacturer does not use anti sway control devices on any of there trailer tow setups during tens of thousands of miles on open public highways with aveage( non profesional) drivers.
Adios,John
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Old 01-15-2010, 09:29 AM   #59
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I'm sure the same is true as well when both vehicles are not pulling a trailer !

My experience pulling trailers for the last 35 years (from our 19' steam launch to 8000+ lbs equipment trailers) is that, properly loaded, lack of separate sway control devices has not been an issue.

To me there seem to be three principle causes of trailering
problems:

1) Over loaded tow vehicles... we've all seen these. Weight distributing hitches help here, since they help move weight from the rear axle of of the TV to the front, but the overall weights still need to be reasonable.

2) Improperly loaded trailers - not enough tongue weight, or possibly too much weight at the fore and aft of the trailer, which raises the polar moment of inertia and contributes to sway amplitudes.

3) Excessive speed, esp. downhill; this can be exacerbated by hard braking in the TV due to improperly adjusted trailer brakes.

These factors reinforce each other in a non-linear fashion as well.

I find that my 20' 4x4 doesn't lend itself to quick lane changes, pulling a trailer or not. As a result, I find the best accident avoidance strategy is pretty simple - slow down, and leave plenty of distance between me and the vehicle in front. Yes, that's tricky in traffic, since people cut in a lot, but that's ok; I'd rather leave the room so I can stop my rig if I need to...

While a sway control system may help mask either improper loading or excessive speed, it seems better to prevent the cause of the problem than attempt to hide it.

- Bart
Hi Bart,
I am curious about something. From your above post, you seem to have experience towing and some definite opinions formed before you started this thread. Were you just trolling? If so, you seem to have been very successful.
Regards,
Ken
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Old 01-15-2010, 09:29 AM   #60
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This is an interesting video from you tube showing a trailer hit by a side gust and the little ball connection pivoted very nicely and wouldn't let go of the big heavy truck pulling it. One in a million a trooper was following behind. I bought a Reese dual cam for my little 22 foot lightweight trailer after seeing this.

YouTube - Winds of change
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Old 01-15-2010, 09:53 AM   #61
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Andy thanks for reinforcing my position. And I have not heard one comment yet as to why a major auto manufacturer does not use anti sway control devices on any of there trailer tow setups during tens of thousands of miles on open public highways with aveage( non profesional) drivers.
Adios,John
John.

Could be cost.

Could also be that a sway control, is usually a mechanical device of sorts, that has nothing to do with the tow vehicle.

I still feel very strongly, that the old, almost 40 years now, Safety Tow, was the best sway control "controller" yet to hit the market.

It advised you when an unstable condition began, as well as applied the trailer brakes faster than a human can, should a sway develop.

I just need to find some time to get that ball rolling again, as I used it for about 50,000 miles of towing and demonstrated it at many rallies, way back then.

Everyone, almost without exception, said "unbelievable", when they witnessed how it performed.

Andy
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Old 01-15-2010, 10:09 AM   #62
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This is an interesting video from you tube showing a trailer hit by a side gust and the little ball connection pivoted very nicely and wouldn't let go of the big heavy truck pulling it. One in a million a trooper was following behind. I bought a Reese dual cam for my little 22 foot lightweight trailer after seeing this.
Last night on the TV show, "it only hurts when I laugh" on the Tru channel, there was a very similar but not the same video. The only difference was that traffic was slower, so the truck (TV) only ended up on its side. It did not roll all the way over.

Last fall, I came upon the aftermath of this same type of accident about 10 miles from home. It was a gusty windy day. Both trailer and pickup TV were on their sides. There were TT parts all over the highway.

Ken
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Old 01-15-2010, 11:42 AM   #63
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Last night on the TV show, "it only hurts when I laugh" on the Tru channel, there was a very similar but not the same video. The only difference was that traffic was slower, so the truck (TV) only ended up on its side. It did not roll all the way over.

Last fall, I came upon the aftermath of this same type of accident about 10 miles from home. It was a gusty windy day. Both trailer and pickup TV were on their sides. There were TT parts all over the highway.

Ken
Modern technology has created very small and very efficient "hearing aids".

Hearing aids are designed for people who have a hearing loss, that want to hear.

But, hearing aids are not designed to make someone listen.

Andy
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Old 01-15-2010, 02:41 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by w7ts View Post
Last night on the TV show, "it only hurts when I laugh" on the Tru channel, there was a very similar but not the same video. The only difference was that traffic was slower, so the truck (TV) only ended up on its side. It did not roll all the way over.

Last fall, I came upon the aftermath of this same type of accident about 10 miles from home. It was a gusty windy day. Both trailer and pickup TV were on their sides. There were TT parts all over the highway.

Ken
Here goes again,is there a video showing the same thing with a anti sway hitch installed? I have no idea I am asking if anyone is aware. As of yet there has not been a shred of proof ofered only theory's and suposetions. The fact that a trailer turned over in the wind only proves a strong wind.
With seat belts as an earlier poster alluded too there are many studys proving that they are efective.
The closest to proof that I have heard is Andy's 1000 accident survey. So with a properly hitched rig and accounting for bad weather,and leaving out impaired drivers, how many crashes caused by sway? 578? 296? 12? none? How many documented crashes are there when the above conditions were meet and the rig had a anti sway device? 644? 321? 2? none?
The fact that most people say the empereer has clothes on when he is in fact naked does not clothe him.
Adios, John
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Old 01-15-2010, 03:14 PM   #65
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Here goes again,is there a video showing the same thing with a anti sway hitch installed? I have no idea I am asking if anyone is aware. As of yet there has not been a shred of proof ofered only theory's and suposetions. The fact that a trailer turned over in the wind only proves a strong wind.
With seat belts as an earlier poster alluded too there are many studys proving that they are efective.
The closest to proof that I have heard is Andy's 1000 accident survey. So with a properly hitched rig and accounting for bad weather,and leaving out impaired drivers, how many crashes caused by sway? 578? 296? 12? none? How many documented crashes are there when the above conditions were meet and the rig had a anti sway device? 644? 321? 2? none?
The fact that most people say the empereer has clothes on when he is in fact naked does not clothe him.
Adios, John
You are really starting to annoy me. I merely posted a reference to a TV clip . I said nothing about whether it had sway control or not.
In this whole thread, until now, I have not made specific reference to anything you have posted or quoted any of your posts. Would you please make whatever your point is without picking at and quoting my posts. If for no other reason than I request it.
Ken
PS your posts would be more credible if you would spell check them.
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Old 01-15-2010, 03:15 PM   #66
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I hate to even get into this debate, but I'm another person pulling a smaller Airstream with one helluva' big truck. I have the opposite setup from 90% of Airstreamers on the road. I run without any WD hitch at all, but I do have a friction type anti-sway device attached to the side. So far, I really like the way it pulls. I ran it for a long time with nothing but the ball, and only installed the sway device for peace of mind. I wasn't having problems before I started using it, but it doesn't negatively affect the way it pulls, so I use it. The gearing of my truck (4.10 rear end) means it gets the best mileage at 60mph, so that's how fast I drive.
Is my anti-sway device necessary? No. I also don't pretend that it will magically save me from having an accident. Not even the most high-tech whiz bang hitch will. There is no hitch that will erase stupid driving habits of the operator. However, my setup may help me maintain just enough control for long enough that experience and driving skill will let me avoid disaster.
There are too many opinions on this subject, and I agree with points made by folks on both sides of the fence. The bottom line here is that no particular setup is perfect for everyone. The possibilities are almost endless. What works for me won't necessarily even work for someone with the same truck and the same trailer. So, debate and discussion is great, but hostile arguments over this subject are just arguing for the sake of arguing.
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Old 01-15-2010, 03:19 PM   #67
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Old 01-15-2010, 03:54 PM   #68
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Sorry Ken I certainly did not mean to annoy you. Just trying to get a fact or two thrown into the fray. Adios, John
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Old 01-15-2010, 04:03 PM   #69
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Sorry Ken I certainly did not mean to annoy you. Just trying to get a fact or two thrown into the fray. Adios, John
Thanks John.
I think I'll hang out on a less controversial thread for awhile.
Maybe I'll start a thread about whether or not chocolate tastes good.
Regards,
Ken
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Old 01-15-2010, 05:53 PM   #70
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Sorry Ken I certainly did not mean to annoy you. Just trying to get a fact or two thrown into the fray. Adios, John
Diesel.

Your rehashing statments made from several owners.

First of all, you have no real reason other than to argue, about the subject.

But, to better answer your question, "It does not matter how many loss of control accidents happened, that caused a problem". If it was but "ONE" that's way too many already.

Anyone that does not want to listen to proven facts, based on person experiences, is fine with me. But to argue about it, solves nothing. To demand evidence, is being rather annoying. If you don't want to listen, that's your personal choice.

Past customers who want to have answers to questions, are always welcomed.

But to carry on and on, and argue a point, when they do not have the before, during and after experiences, is really being agrumentive instead of trying to learn.

People learn from others experiences, not from arguing.

Sorry, I enjoy helping others as I have for over 43 years, but I will not argue a point with anyone else, over issues that a small minority disagrees with.

Those that disagree, need to go thru the expense and time to do the research, as others have done. Quite well they may turn up their hearing aids, so not to hear, but to listen.

Andy
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