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12-09-2013, 06:40 PM
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#61
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Rivet Master
2012 27' Flying Cloud
W
, New England
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 7,402
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I dunno. The Cayenne diesel can do well over 7000# (not an issue for your 20' trailer with a GVWR of 5000) but the Porsche tongue weight max is 616. Airstream lists your tongue as 635 and most here have commented on how low that number is when compared with actual use.
Moreover, apparently Porsche says no WDH on the Cayenne and claims that's because the suspension is engineered to handle a trailer dropped on the ball.
Last, even if you can get past the trailer and tongue weight issue - what does that leave for passengers, fuel and gear?
Have you talked with your dealer? I can't imagine towing without a WD hitch but if that's what they recommend, "A" might be the right decision. I would definitely recommend a discussion with your Porsche dealer.
Good luck!
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12-10-2013, 05:49 AM
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#62
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worried...happy...wo...ha
2015 25' FB International
Menlo Park
, California
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 213
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The issue with the dealer is that they really do not know and they will basically repeat the manufacturer's recommendations. Although I am tempted to give "A" a try, I think that the safety first is something I should stick to.
I'd love to trek North to Canada, but it is just not going to happen anytime soon.
Perhaps, this is now the point for the obvious question . If I go with option "C", what brand of WD hitch would you recommend? For putting strain on the vehicle/AS with the manufacturer hitch installed, how does Hensley/PP compare with the other friction-based hitches? The stories of hitches braking are scary and I am wondering whether risking a breaking hitch by choosing the wrong setup could be worse than option "A"...
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12-10-2013, 06:23 AM
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#63
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"Cloudsplitter"
2003 25' Classic
Houstatlantavegas
, Malebolgia
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 20,000
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Don't know how many 'pepper' spurts' we have here.......
Might get some helpful info here.
Bob
__________________
I’m done with ‘adulting’…Let’s go find Bigfoot.
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12-10-2013, 07:50 AM
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#64
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Lost in America
2015 27' FB International
2006 25' Safari FB SE
2004 19' International CCD
Santa Fe
, New Mexico
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,151
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The towing capacity for Cayennes and Touaregs is 7700lbs. The hitch receiver capacity is 10% of that or 770lbs. In Europe, the capacity is rated at 8% or 616lbs, because they do not use WD hitches and entirely different coupler system and the trailers are smaller and lighter. You can tow your 20' trailer in any configuration of A,B,C. However you may find that you will feel more secure and safe with B or C.
You will not need the full capacity of a WD hitch due to the air suspension but with a Hensley, I have found that it is much easier to adjust the distribution of any weight.
__________________
This is the strangest life I've ever known - J. Morrison
2015 Airstream International Serenity 27FB
2017 Chevy Silverado 2500HD Duramax Diesel
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12-11-2013, 01:17 PM
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#65
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Rivet Master
2013 25' Flying Cloud
Cat City
, California
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 854
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While air suspensions may adjust the ride height, they won't of course transfer any weight on the axles.
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12-11-2013, 02:21 PM
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#66
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Lost in America
2015 27' FB International
2006 25' Safari FB SE
2004 19' International CCD
Santa Fe
, New Mexico
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,151
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mstephens
While air suspensions may adjust the ride height, they won't of course transfer any weight on the axles.
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Yes, but too much weight distribution can affect the air suspension system of a Touareg/Cayenne causing the system to over compensate. It is a true air suspension, there are no shocks or springs, and the car is always compensating for level unlike manual air ride assist found on American vehicles. The point is that the OP is within the weight parameters and if he should decide to use a WD hitch, a HA or PPP have finer adjustments than Reese/Equalizer.
__________________
This is the strangest life I've ever known - J. Morrison
2015 Airstream International Serenity 27FB
2017 Chevy Silverado 2500HD Duramax Diesel
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12-12-2013, 05:47 AM
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#67
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Rivet Master
Vintage Kin Owner
N/A
, N/A
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 989
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mstephens
While air suspensions may adjust the ride height, they won't of course transfer any weight on the axles.
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Air suspension raises the rear of the TV. This transfers weight on axles, in a similar way to WDHs, and levels the vehicle.
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12-12-2013, 06:05 AM
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#68
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"Cloudsplitter"
2003 25' Classic
Houstatlantavegas
, Malebolgia
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 20,000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rostam
Air suspension raises the rear of the TV. This transfers weight on axles, in a similar way to WDHs, and levels the vehicle.
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..... go to the scales, get some tickets and photo's to prove your hypothesis.
I don't believe you have the leverage needed to transfer enough weight to balance the TV & trailer.
Level is good but WD bars provide the pivot point to facilitate the weight transfer necessary.
Bob
__________________
I’m done with ‘adulting’…Let’s go find Bigfoot.
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12-12-2013, 09:46 AM
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#69
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Rivet Master
Vintage Kin Owner
N/A
, N/A
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 989
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Will do, but u need to wait till the summer
If you lift the back of the car (via air suspension, WDH bars, or even by hand), the effect is the same. Which method achieves the best result, is a different story though.
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12-12-2013, 11:25 PM
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#70
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worried...happy...wo...ha
2015 25' FB International
Menlo Park
, California
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 213
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mojo
Yes, but too much weight distribution can affect the air suspension system of a Touareg/Cayenne causing the system to over compensate. It is a true air suspension, there are no shocks or springs, and the car is always compensating for level unlike manual air ride assist found on American vehicles. The point is that the OP is within the weight parameters and if he should decide to use a WD hitch, a HA or PPP have finer adjustments than Reese/Equalizer.
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So a HA or PP would be easier for fine tuning; on the other hand, Reese/Equalizer is about 1/5 the the prize and would be ok as well. Our TV (rental) for the holiday trip has an equalizer. We took it out a few weeks ago and I likes the simple setup, quick and straight forward. Still 2 months before the Cayenne is supposed to be arriving, so still time for pondering...
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12-12-2013, 11:27 PM
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#71
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worried...happy...wo...ha
2015 25' FB International
Menlo Park
, California
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 213
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BTW,
The rental TV is an F150.
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12-13-2013, 01:06 AM
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#72
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Rivet Master
1976 Argosy 22
Pasadena
, California
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 533
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Where did you find a place to rent a TV? I have been liking for a winter trip rental...
__________________
1976 22' Airstream Argosy
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12-13-2013, 02:07 PM
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#73
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Rivet Master
2013 25' FB Flying Cloud
Longmont
, Colorado
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,105
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Air suspension does not transfer weight like WDH
Rostam,
I am responding you your comments "Air suspension raises the rear of the TV. This transfers weight on axles, in a similar way to WDHs, and levels the vehicle" and "If you lift the back of the car (via air suspension, WDH bars, or even by hand), the effect is the same".
Actually, air suspensions and WDH hitches have significantly different affects on the vehicle. WDH imparts a rotational force on the tow vehicle, rotating around the hitch. Air suspension expands the suspension of the vehicle in the vertical direction, but makes almost zero change in the forces involved.
I have an SUV with auto-adjusting air suspension in the rear, and I have weighed it at the scales. Here is what I found.
Tow vehicle only, with driver and passenger: 3080 on front axle, 3040 on rear.
Then I hitched the trailer without the WDH bars. I waited for the air suspension to raise the vehicle to its normal height, then weighed again:
2600 on front axle, 4420 on rear axle, 5160 on trailer axles. That rear axle weight is 220 pounds over the manufacturer's stated weight rating.
Then I connected the WDH bars, waited again for the air suspension to stabilize, and weighed again:
3000 on front axle, 3880 on rear axle, 5300 on trailer axles.
So weight distribution really changes the axle loadings.
Note that this trailer is a 25FB. The tongue weight was about 900 pounds on this day.
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12-13-2013, 02:37 PM
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#74
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Moderator
1968 17' Caravel
Battle Ground
, Washington
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 12,254
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Thank you for posting those real numbers, that's very interesting.
__________________
Stephanie
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12-13-2013, 02:39 PM
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#75
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Rivet Master
2013 30' Classic
Greenwood
, Mississippi
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 12,111
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I am dreaming about buying a used Porsche Cayenne as a tow vehicle.
What will I have to do to make it so?
Does anyone have experience towing with a Cayenne?
__________________
2013 Classic 30 Limited
2007 Silver Toyota Tundra Crew Max Limited 5.7 iForce
2006 Vivid Black Harley-Davidson Road King Classic
1999 Black Nissan Pathfinder LE
TAC #MS-10
WBCCI #1811, Region 6, Unit 56
Airforums #70955
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12-13-2013, 02:40 PM
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#76
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Rivet Master
2016 30' Classic
Trenton
, Illinois
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 846
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Another major advantage of a properly adjusted weight distribution hitch is in performance. Spring bars transfer weight in the direction they're pointed. If you have the hitch ball tilted toward the trailer the inner spring bar unloads when you corner and the outer bar transfers all the weight toward the INSIDE edge of the tow vehicle. It actually causes the tow vehicle lean into a corner, but this performance advantage only occurs if the hitch ball is properly tilted (Step 1 in the EaZ-Lift setup instructions).
__________________
Steve
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12-13-2013, 03:20 PM
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#77
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"Cloudsplitter"
2003 25' Classic
Houstatlantavegas
, Malebolgia
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 20,000
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"Then I connected the WDH bars, waited again for the air suspension to stabilize, and weighed again:
3000 on front axle, 3880 on rear axle, 5300 on trailer axles.
So weight distribution really changes the axle loadings.
Note that this trailer is a 25FB. The tongue weight was about 900 pounds on this day."
^
Reason triumphs.....
Bob
__________________
I’m done with ‘adulting’…Let’s go find Bigfoot.
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12-13-2013, 10:28 PM
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#78
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worried...happy...wo...ha
2015 25' FB International
Menlo Park
, California
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 213
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crabbey1
Where did you find a place to rent a TV? I have been liking for a winter trip rental...
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Bay Area airstream, where we got our AS.
Very happy with them.
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12-13-2013, 10:31 PM
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#79
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worried...happy...wo...ha
2015 25' FB International
Menlo Park
, California
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 213
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SSquared
Rostam, I am responding you your comments "Air suspension raises the rear of the TV. This transfers weight on axles, in a similar way to WDHs, and levels the vehicle" and "If you lift the back of the car (via air suspension, WDH bars, or even by hand), the effect is the same". Actually, air suspensions and WDH hitches have significantly different affects on the vehicle. WDH imparts a rotational force on the tow vehicle, rotating around the hitch. Air suspension expands the suspension of the vehicle in the vertical direction, but makes almost zero change in the forces involved. I have an SUV with auto-adjusting air suspension in the rear, and I have weighed it at the scales. Here is what I found. Tow vehicle only, with driver and passenger: 3080 on front axle, 3040 on rear. Then I hitched the trailer without the WDH bars. I waited for the air suspension to raise the vehicle to its normal height, then weighed again: 2600 on front axle, 4420 on rear axle, 5160 on trailer axles. That rear axle weight is 220 pounds over the manufacturer's stated weight rating. Then I connected the WDH bars, waited again for the air suspension to stabilize, and weighed again: 3000 on front axle, 3880 on rear axle, 5300 on trailer axles. So weight distribution really changes the axle loadings. Note that this trailer is a 25FB. The tongue weight was about 900 pounds on this day.
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Very useful information.
What kind of hitch are you using?
What is the TV?
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12-13-2013, 11:38 PM
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#80
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Rivet Master
2013 25' FB Flying Cloud
Longmont
, Colorado
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,105
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Tow vehicle details
Knuff,
My tow vehicle is a 2010 Yukon Denali (short wheelbase). The numbers I quoted were when we had a Blue Ox SwapPro hitch. Using that hitch, we experienced a little sway from time to time, enough that we decided to change hitches. The Yukon requires a fairly large drop (the receiver is in the bumper), and the receiver flexes somewhat, which I think messes up the geometry for the Blue Ox.
We had Can-Am reinforce the hitch, and install an EazLift hitch. The rig is more stable now. Andy T. has us set up with heavier bars and more weight transfer. On this vehicle, you can feel the difference when you change the tightness of the chains--more chain tension increases stability going down the road.
I don't have experience with the more sophisticated SUVs like the VW, Porsche, and BMW, so I wouldn't recommend hitch brand or target weights based on my experience.
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