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Old 12-05-2011, 08:49 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by BAB View Post
Good question! When the dealer installed my hitch they questioned the 250 torque number. "Wow, that's a lot of torque!" So they called Sean, to verify....and he said, "yup, it's 250."
Yes, I'm the "they" that called. I do have Sean's number on my cell phone, though usually the contact has been through the forums here, or email.
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Old 12-05-2011, 10:26 PM   #58
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One of the big problems is that ...
... The stiffness is bad, right?
....
I feel a viagra joke coming on.
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Old 12-06-2011, 01:12 AM   #59
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PHBARNHART--

Hey thanks. If you don't mind my asking, how did you like the Sutton experience on delivery, walk thru, hookup and whatever? Were you happy when you towed out?

I had found the Tow Pro guys in the Yellow Pages, so they are on my list to call. But if Sutton has the Reece 2-cam set, I may just go with them doing it for convenience.

Thanks for the tips.
My experience with Sutton was really good. The walk-through was thorough but you'll be coming back here pretty often regardless. The guy who did ours had a three-week-old at home and was a little scatter-brained (understandably) but he hit all the topics and took a couple of hours doing it all.

Bottom line is that I was happy when I left. There's some construction going on around where the lot is right now and it's not totally obvious how to get back out and onto the main road, just tell them that you're not a local and would like to follow someone out if you're not comfortable with doing it yourself.
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Old 12-06-2011, 01:46 AM   #60
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Equal-i-zer bars too stiff?

Hi, Lets review Andy's chart on spring bar flex. The Equal-i-zer and the Reese 1000# bars had the same flex all the way up to their 1000 lb ratings. The Easylift was obviously weaker, but still rated at 1000#s, and fell right in between the 800# bars. The other bars tested showed quite a bit more flex, but were 800 lb bars. [DUH] And where were the Propride and Hensley bars? Conclusion; This test is/was useless. [my opinion]
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Old 12-06-2011, 03:43 AM   #61
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And where were the Propride and Hensley bars?

Neither of these depends on bar flex for anti-sway "tension".

WD and antisway operate independently of one another (not that proper TV/TT "loading" via leverage isn't part of best practice).
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Old 12-06-2011, 07:40 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by ROBERTSUNRUS View Post
Hi, Lets review Andy's chart on spring bar flex. The Equal-i-zer and the Reese 1000# bars had the same flex all the way up to their 1000 lb ratings. The Easylift was obviously weaker, but still rated at 1000#s, and fell right in between the 800# bars. The other bars tested showed quite a bit more flex, but were 800 lb bars. [DUH] And where were the Propride and Hensley bars? Conclusion; This test is/was useless. [my opinion]
I don't think so Robert. (IMHO,Reeeeaaaaally don't want to start something here) I believe that the recommendation to "match" max tongue weight with bar rating is improper. (Many times we hear of bar ratings far in excess of max tongue load rating) In my case I made the switch from 1000# Eq bars to 800# Reese.
What I think we need to look at on the graph is not the flex up to....say 1000#....but what happens on up the slope, when the forces get high enough to presumably do damage.

It's more about the flexibility of the bars when put under extreme flex situation, like a steep drive entrance.

I believe I would be "over-barred" with a 1000# Eq or a 1000# Reese.
Now compare the slope of an 800# Reese to a 1000# Eq.

In my case, let's assume I have about 1.5" of flex sitting level and WD adjusted properly per weights and measures. (800# Reese) I have about 1000# of force exerted at the chain snap-up.

With the EQ (1000#) at the same force (1000#) I am flexed 1"

Now I am going to enter a steep gas station drive in which the angle between the TV frame and AS frame requires 2.5" (an additional 1" over static) of bar flex. With the 800# Reese I am at around 1600#.. With the EQ (at 2" total, or 1" additional flex) I am at about 2200#.

You have to extrapolate the lines out to get the enormous loads at higher flexes, but we know the slopes will stay relatively constant.

All that being said, IMHO there are only 2 things wrong with Eq:
1) They don't offer the ability to lower your bar rating with a sufficiently rated head. (ie, I would choose a 600# bar, but NEED a 10,000# head.....can't do it!)

2) I believe the non-tapered bar does not allow for the bar tip flexibility to give a reduced vibration and shock load during normal driving on level pavement. (sorta like two fishing rods with the same rating: one has the same diameter all the way to its tip and the other is tapered like we're all used to. Which one is more sensitive and flexible?)

All this is MY OPINION base on towing with an Eq (1000/10,000) and a Reese dual cam (800/10,000) and backed up by data and quite a few OPINIONS of those on this forum whose opinions I have grown to trust.

Edit: Corrected loads at RELATIVE flex change...sorry.
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Old 12-06-2011, 07:44 AM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ROBERTSUNRUS View Post
Hi, Lets review Andy's chart on spring bar flex. The Equal-i-zer and the Reese 1000# bars had the same flex all the way up to their 1000 lb ratings. The Easylift was obviously weaker, but still rated at 1000#s, and fell right in between the 800# bars. The other bars tested showed quite a bit more flex, but were 800 lb bars. [DUH] And where were the Propride and Hensley bars? Conclusion; This test is/was useless. [my opinion]
I tend to agree with your opinion. First of all, the bars are rated as to weight, in sets. If he had actually tested the bars, the weight they would have carried, and flexed from, would have actually been half of the pair's stated weight. The other thing is, he had a point he was trying to prove about the Reese bars and hitches he actually sells. The last thing is, if he had actually gone to the trouble of constructing a jig to do these tests with, he would have documented it all with photos, etc. Can you say boilerhouse? And last, there is no "tortion" going on with any weight distribution bar. If you don't believe me, look up the definition, and search all of the hitch mfgs. sites. I have.
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Old 12-06-2011, 07:52 AM   #64
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Steve, I see where you are coming from, but again, IMHO it's is more about the ramp up of stresses as the required flex changes due to the angle change between the AS frame and the TV frame. The SLOPE is what is important.

I am sure if Andy wanted to be an Eq dealer, he could. Why doesn't he?

Torsion is an old colloquialism in the trailer hitch industry......as incorrect as it is....I have noted MANY people who have been in the industry for a long time use the phrase. It is a mis-nomer, non-the-less.
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Old 12-06-2011, 08:59 AM   #65
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How in the world could the tests be made without a jig?

I am waiting for someone else, anyone else, to spend some time and money making similair tests with other brands.

While some may disagree, it's interesting to note what circumstnces they, in their opinion state, having zero actual facts.

Those tests were done to demonstrate that there is a difference between brand ratings.

What we sell, is what the public usually asks for.

We are not a research institute, but simply an Airstream dealer having the desire to help the majority.

We feel that since we to date, are the "ONLY" company that has run comparitive tests on what we call "torsion bars", and published it, that hopefully someone else may become interested enough to continue where we left off.

That, we feel, would be productive to the industry.

It's sort of sad, how sometimes an opinion can stray into hogwash.

We publically wish to thank those that have sent us letters, e-mails, and even phone calls, to thank us for taking the effort and under going the expense, to provide what we did with the chart.

Perhaps someday, some other company will continue where we left off.

Andy
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Old 12-06-2011, 09:11 AM   #66
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I tend to agree with your opinion. First of all, the bars are rated as to weight, in sets. If he had actually tested the bars, the weight they would have carried, and flexed from, would have actually been half of the pair's stated weight. The other thing is, he had a point he was trying to prove about the Reese bars and hitches he actually sells. The last thing is, if he had actually gone to the trouble of constructing a jig to do these tests with, he would have documented it all with photos, etc. Can you say boilerhouse? And last, there is no "tortion" going on with any weight distribution bar. If you don't believe me, look up the definition, and search all of the hitch mfgs. sites. I have.
Fortunately, anyone can name anything they may so choose.

Hitch bars are sometimes used as a boat anchor.

The subject matter was performance, not a name.

Could a person, in this case, interpret boilerhouse to mean "falsely?"

No further comment we feel, is necessary, relative to a persons individuals objections and/or statements.

Andy
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Old 12-06-2011, 01:22 PM   #67
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I don't think so Robert. (IMHO,Reeeeaaaaally don't want to start something here) I believe that the recommendation to "match" max tongue weight with bar rating is improper. (Many times we hear of bar ratings far in excess of max tongue load rating) In my case I made the switch from 1000# Eq bars to 800# Reese.
What I think we need to look at on the graph is not the flex up to....say 1000#....but what happens on up the slope, when the forces get high enough to presumably do damage.

It's more about the flexibility of the bars when put under extreme flex situation, like a steep drive entrance.

I believe I would be "over-barred" with a 1000# Eq or a 1000# Reese.
Now compare the slope of an 800# Reese to a 1000# Eq.

In my case, let's assume I have about 1.5" of flex sitting level and WD adjusted properly per weights and measures. (800# Reese) I have about 1000# of force exerted at the chain snap-up.

With the EQ (1000#) at the same force (1000#) I am flexed 1"

Now I am going to enter a steep gas station drive in which the angle between the TV frame and AS frame requires 2.5" (an additional 1" over static) of bar flex. With the 800# Reese I am at around 1600#.. With the EQ (at 2" total, or 1" additional flex) I am at about 2200#.

You have to extrapolate the lines out to get the enormous loads at higher flexes, but we know the slopes will stay relatively constant.

All that being said, IMHO there are only 2 things wrong with Eq:
1) They don't offer the ability to lower your bar rating with a sufficiently rated head. (ie, I would choose a 600# bar, but NEED a 10,000# head.....can't do it!)

2) I believe the non-tapered bar does not allow for the bar tip flexibility to give a reduced vibration and shock load during normal driving on level pavement. (sorta like two fishing rods with the same rating: one has the same diameter all the way to its tip and the other is tapered like we're all used to. Which one is more sensitive and flexible?)

All this is MY OPINION base on towing with an Eq (1000/10,000) and a Reese dual cam (800/10,000) and backed up by data and quite a few OPINIONS of those on this forum whose opinions I have grown to trust.

Edit: Corrected loads at RELATIVE flex change...sorry.
Being that the Equilizer bars are perfectly square, I would not hesitate for a minute to sleave a 600 pound bar for use in a 10,000 pound head.

What's the worst that could happen? The bar could break? I've heard of several Reese bars breaking, and everyone survived.

You could even do a test to see at what point the bar broke, but if you do, please provide us with documentation.
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Old 12-06-2011, 03:32 PM   #68
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Being that the Equilizer bars are perfectly square, I would not hesitate for a minute to sleave a 600 pound bar for use in a 10,000 pound head.

What's the worst that could happen? The bar could break? I've heard of several Reese bars breaking, and everyone survived.

You could even do a test to see at what point the bar broke, but if you do, please provide us with documentation.
Does anybody have a pair of 600# EQ bars laying around. I have the rest of the setup. If you want to donate (or loan) I'll have a set of sleeves made up and test them out.
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Old 12-06-2011, 04:05 PM   #69
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I tend to agree with your opinion. First of all, the bars are rated as to weight, in sets. If he had actually tested the bars, the weight they would have carried, and flexed from, would have actually been half of the pair's stated weight. .
One of each of the bars tested was used. The weights in the chart are for 2 bars, not one.

As an example, when we applied 200 pounds to one bar, we posted that as being 400 pounds, which is for 2 bars.

Testing one bar or two, makes no difference as long as the correct weight is charted correctly.

Andy
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Old 12-07-2011, 12:52 AM   #70
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Ok I know I shouldn't ask and get dragged into this may lay but here I go anyway. If your talking about slope as getting into a gas station or any other up hill grade from the street, wouldn't your WD bars just transfer more weight to the front of your TV and not bend the A frame? That is after all what their designed to do, isn't it? I'm also not a fan of the duel cam that rease has after mine started to pull of the frame ( the front mounts for the arms ) and twist the arms which made them then cut into the sides of the cam lobes. I don't have pics I know, and I no longer have the set up, seeing no need to keep something that failed. I just think its a poor design. But I'm sure it's been improved and is no longer sold. I knew I should have taken pics before it was removed. Any thoughts?
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