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Old 02-11-2007, 06:43 PM   #29
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Ok you want to go heavy duty, Here you go, 7,000 lbs times two is 14,000 lbs load.

Chain



I think you can use 4,000lbs rated chain.




That is a major boat supplier they have anything you need cheap.
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Old 02-11-2007, 06:59 PM   #30
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Check out the double lock snap hooks on page 1374 in the catalogue at

www.mcmastercarr.com

I've been using these on the Excella
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Old 02-11-2007, 07:17 PM   #31
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I just don't think if we're talking the best those will do???

Page 1366 is better IMO.
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Old 02-11-2007, 07:40 PM   #32
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Thanks - something there could surely work. Appreciate the info..
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Old 02-12-2007, 01:57 PM   #33
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WD add anything to the equation?

Michelle -

Question for you, since you had the mis-foturne of the most recent experience with trailer seperation.

Did the WD change anything on your 'experience'? I ask, since the discussion seems centered around the tongue coming off the ball, no mention of all the forces applied with proper WD. I recall a thread where it was 'shown' that the WD prevents the tongue from lifting - but that doesn't do anything for hitch failure... Heck, even with a ball failure, the WD ought to add some stability as the failure manifests, keeping the tongue from digging in and such.

I guess if things go that badly wrong, that seperation/ rollover is possible, then I want to be a far from the trailer as I can be in as fast a time as possible. I'll pick up the clothes, pieces and etc... later.

Come to think of it, I have seen SOB's come apart (it looked like wood, fiberglass & clothes confetti ALL OVER the road!) but never seen the aftermath of an AS (other than the Colows photos) and your's, Michelle. But yours didn't roll, right?

Anyway, would be interested on the thoughts, forces, changes that WD might inject into the discussion & debate.

Axel
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Old 02-12-2007, 02:07 PM   #34
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Chains only! Everyone above me who supports the use of chains has made mention of some very usefull information. Having seen a horse trailer breakaway off a hitch with two horses on board has convinced me that chains are they way. Chains have been in use for longer than most of us have been towing and there is a very good reason for it; they work. As driving down the highway at a reasonable speed, came upon a contruction area and hit a pothole, trailer tongue wheel hit the road hard, sheared the safety pin and threw the hitch right off the ball. The chains caught the tongue and were abel to coast off the highway without damage to us or others or the horses and rig, other than a good dent in the bumper. Extremely minor considering the event that just took place. So yes, the chains are meant to catch the tongue and keep the trailer in tow. The emergency break should only trigger if your chains fail!
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Old 02-12-2007, 02:27 PM   #35
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From horse trailer land...

okay... with the proviso that this is based upon experience with horse trailers and cowboys have their own way of thinking about such things...

when the trailer detaches, the trailer tongue part swings down under the reciever and if the chains are of equal length - kind of swings back and forth due to the effect of gravity. If the brakes don't activate a calm and moderated application of the brakes can bring things to a stop without much damage.

we would set things up so that the trailer tongue would barely touch the ground when the chains are connected and off hitch. This required some fiddling around with the location of the chains on the trailer and height/length of the chain connections on the TV.

my understanding of the brake activator on the trailer is that it should come on when the trailer is completly disconnected from the TV - last resort mechanism.

the truth be told... I haven't even looked at the Argosy to see how well or poorly it is set up to deal with a hitch dislocation.

rest assured, one de-hitch event causes you to become over cautious for the rest of your life

one man's understanding and experience...

thanks

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Old 02-12-2007, 07:10 PM   #36
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WD and accidents

Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverToy
Michelle -

Question for you, since you had the mis-foturne of the most recent experience with trailer seperation.

Did the WD change anything on your 'experience'? I ask, since the discussion seems centered around the tongue coming off the ball, no mention of all the forces applied with proper WD. I recall a thread where it was 'shown' that the WD prevents the tongue from lifting - but that doesn't do anything for hitch failure... Heck, even with a ball failure, the WD ought to add some stability as the failure manifests, keeping the tongue from digging in and such.

I guess if things go that badly wrong, that seperation/ rollover is possible, then I want to be a far from the trailer as I can be in as fast a time as possible. I'll pick up the clothes, pieces and etc... later.

Come to think of it, I have seen SOB's come apart (it looked like wood, fiberglass & clothes confetti ALL OVER the road!) but never seen the aftermath of an AS (other than the Colows photos) and your's, Michelle. But yours didn't roll, right?

Anyway, would be interested on the thoughts, forces, changes that WD might inject into the discussion & debate.

Axel
SilverToy
I do not think the WD had any affect on the accident. I never heard the trailer break free. The latch was destroyed. the WD bars came off and landed on the ground. the chains broke shortly there after. The Break away activated. The kept the trailer from rolling.

The ball was bent. The head looked treaked as well. They were replaced. The bars were fine.

Did that answer your question?
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Old 02-12-2007, 08:46 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverToy
Come to think of it, I have seen SOB's come apart (it looked like wood, fiberglass & clothes confetti ALL OVER the road!) but never seen the aftermath of an AS (other than the Colows photos) and your's, Michelle. But yours didn't roll, right?
I've seen pictures of a rolled Airstream - it stayed basically intact, on the outside. The cabinets and such on the inside were quite another story...
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Old 02-12-2007, 08:56 PM   #38
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As I understand it, one of the purposes of the safety chains is to support the tonque if the hitch fails (that's why you cross them), not merely to keep the trailer attached. It seems to me that the cables should be the same length? Be interested in how you end up terminating the cables.
Here is the way I understand the order of events;

• Chains, crossed to form a “basket” should the ball come un-hitched.
• Pig-tail. You want to be able to control the braking of you trailer as long as possible. Locking up the brakes is not a good thing.
• Break-away switch. If all the above systems fail, then you would want the pin to pull and the trailer to brake on its own.

One other comment; Fortunately I have never had any serious mishaps while towing. I do have a friend however, who tows a PUP, he camps a LOT and tows long distances, is a commercial fisherman and has towed a boat EVERY Day for a good 25 years. He is one of the most experienced towers I know. He did have his PUP come off the ball, the chains cradled it as designed, and he was able to stop with no damage. I was always skeptical about the safety chains actually working like this, after his experience it made me feel a little safer.

Bill
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Old 11-09-2007, 08:26 PM   #39
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Was reading this thread tonight looking for an pics of welded attachments at the trailer A-frame.

As a former OTR flatbed driver we were equipped with Grade 70 Transport Chain to tie down a variety of loads of steel. I have purchased much of my own and learned that it is best to go to an industrial supplier who can make up the proper links, hooks, etc for ones' use. Not cheap in my case (a couple of lengths, one of them an unusual configuration), but I knew EXACTLY what it could do. And I used that same tech/shop to inspect them several years later.

Example: my chains are rated to over 6,000-lb WORKING LOAD. The hooks I use are rated to 4,000-lbs. I had to know a good number of details to get the best out of them and going to a pro was the only way. I had to trust that the hooks would fail BEFORE the chain stretched and broke.

I'll keep searching, here and elsewhere, but if anyone knows a good thread on this subject I'd be most appreciative.

Here's a link on chain. I believe Grade 80 would be overkill, and G-70 already has a nice dull gold chromate finish to prevent rusting (it will, but just oil it occasionally); G-80 does not. But, then, nothing like overkill, eh?

Chain Grading



Here's an excellent quote from 87MH on chains:

Safety chain hookup requires more thought than “I don’t think that will drag on the road”.

There are two schools of thought on Safety Chains:

Stop the trailer if the hitch system fails, or,
Simply be installed to be in compliance with various laws but with a weak link to get rid of the trailer in a catastrophic situation.

To be sure, there have been situations where a good set of safety chains, properly sized and rigged, have brought an errant trailer to a safe stop.

On the other hand, a fully loaded 34 footer, if it should suddenly decide to gee to the curbside (especially if improperly rigged), will most assuredly take the rear end of most any tow vehicle (including one ton pickups) along with it to an early demise.
Proper rigging dictates that, upon separation from the tow vehicle, no part of the trailer is allowed to dig into the asphalt or concrete of the roadway. With the longer specialty hitches it is very difficult to properly rig and adjust adequately sized safety chains to prevent front end plowing.

When selecting chain and connection links, unfortunately, size does not always indicate ultimate breaking strength. This is especially true when analyzing impact loads (the first big jerk right before you mutter Oh S**t!). When purchasing a hitch system, always insist on paperwork (preferably with stamps and tags) on each individual piece of the system.

I have walked through campgrounds shaking my head in utter amazement at 5 to 10 thousand pound trailers with safety chains or connectors I know could not have been rated at more than 500 pounds.

In a former life I did a lot of rigging and design on offshore platforms, if a piece of rigging did not have proper paperwork, we would not use it. Dynamic loads ratings (which a trailer and tow vehicle, by definition of use, should use) were assumed to be 50% of static load rating, i.e. a safety factor of two. Impact loads (certainly probable in a breakaway situation) require a much greater safety factor, and each individual hookup should be analyzed for proper risk assessment.

It is up to each individual driver to assess the degree of safety (and ultimate liability) of each individual hookup.

Since this is one of my favorite soapbox diatribes, I will volunteer to be a “librarian” of safety hookup documents, videos, and cd’s. If anyone knows of a good video, let me know, and I will purchase it and send it to forum members as they request.

Give constructive criticism where it will help, offer opinions where they may be welcome, don’t associate with malevolent and malicious people.
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And this thread:


http://www.airforums.com/forums/f439...html#post57362
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Old 11-09-2007, 09:14 PM   #40
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Forgot to add that, to secure a 10,000-lb load against movement, [2 ea] G-70 chains are needed. Is this the same as "dymanic" as Dennis makes above, or is it static (by DOT definition)a? Well, I'm still reading . . .

The weak points still seem to be the attachment points.

And I also forgot the original reason I revived this old thread: I can't imagine using cables as a substitute for chains. They may be appropriate elsewhere (maybe a 56,000-lb moho pulling a 3,600-lb jeepney), but not, I think, here.
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Old 11-09-2007, 09:19 PM   #41
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That is the one thing that has always bothered me about safety chains - I know they are intended to cradle the tongue in an off-hitch situation, but I always have to wonder about a situation where something happens violently to the trailer (losing an axle, huge pothole, etc.) to unseat the hitch. With a strongly yawing trailer coming off the hitch, won't the chains attached to the TV make for an ugly wreck of the whole rig if rated for the higher working loads?

Always paranoid about safe towing,
Susan
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Old 11-09-2007, 09:27 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alumatube
That is the one thing that has always bothered me about safety chains - I know they are intended to cradle the tongue in an off-hitch situation, but I always have to wonder about a situation where something happens violently to the trailer (losing an axle, huge pothole, etc.) to unseat the hitch. With a strongly yawing trailer coming off the hitch, won't the chains attached to the TV make for an ugly wreck of the whole rig if rated for the higher working loads?

Always paranoid about safe towing,
Susan
Susan, I think that the standard trailer safety chains are basically useless in a real serious accident, like some of our forums members already have experienced. In a mild incident, it keeps the trailer with you, destroying YOUR property instead of others. In a severe incident, things break and go everywhere.
Every time I put mine on, I doubt that they will do much good either way. But that's just my thought, backed up by nothing more than a hunch.
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