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Old 04-18-2011, 02:56 PM   #15
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I remember seeing this picture previously and compared it to my setup. Fortunately, I don't have that issue. You're yoke is almost parallel to the A-Frame, whereas mine hangs at an angle to the frame and that creates the contact problem. I can think of only two things that might affect yokes angle, the distance of the hinge from the ball socket and the number of links from the hanger bracket to the hook.

The yoke's hinge point on the mounting bracket should be 18" from the center of the ball socket according to the installation directions.

And then, generally, there should 5 links from the hangar bracket to the hook. That can be adjusted by tilting the ball.

I suspect you know all of this, but thought I'd lay it out anyway. BTW - beautiful workmanship on that kayak!

JimW
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Old 04-18-2011, 02:59 PM   #16
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Well, I am making some assumptions, since I never had the older bronze colored cam in Cats and your photo above. I have the black/silver unit in Cats photo. I can't tell if the black part is shorter, but it appears the gold cam has a lot more threaded length than mine. There is NO WAY my black piece (whatever it is called) can contact the spring bar. There is at least 1" of vertical distance between the jamb nut and the spring bar with 5 links under stress.

Is your frame 5" or 6"?
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Old 04-18-2011, 03:11 PM   #17
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Well, I am making some assumptions, since I never had the older bronze colored cam in Cats and your photo above. I have the black/silver unit in Cats photo. I can't tell if the black part is shorter, but it appears the gold cam has a lot more threaded length than mine. There is NO WAY my black piece (whatever it is called) can contact the spring bar. There is at least 1" of vertical distance between the jamb nut and the spring bar with 5 links under stress.

Is your frame 5" or 6"?
Don't say "NO WAY" until you back the rig up in a very tight turn, just short of Jack Knifing. Get out and then look at your clearance. As you turn the bar rides up off the cam and the head pulls the outer bar closer to the yoke the tighter the turn.

I have not had a failure to date but know of several that have destroyed more than one set.




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Old 04-18-2011, 03:42 PM   #18
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Don't say "NO WAY" until you back the rig up in a very tight turn, just short of Jack Knifing. Get out and then look at your clearance. As you turn the bar rides up off the cam and the head pulls the outer bar closer to the yoke the tighter the turn.

I have not had a failure to date but know of several that have destroyed more than one set.




.
Well, I purposely tried it, because of the other thread. With it cranked as far as I will ever try a CONSCIOUS maneuver, I still have pert near 1/4 inch of vertical clearance between the jamb nut and the spring bar. Could it contact in an accidental jack knife? Dunno, but it'll be a part of an insurance claim if that happens.
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Old 04-18-2011, 03:46 PM   #19
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Ya know, I wonder if the silver cam bar has a longer reach from the shaft to the shoulder of the cam? Hey, thecatsandi, if you still have the new ones off, could you lay the old and new parts side by side and shoot some pics? Disassembled maybe?
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Old 04-18-2011, 03:55 PM   #20
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HowieE, I think there are a couple of different ballmounts too. There were posts about the trunnions contacting the ball nut. These ballmounts had, I believe a flat across surface where the upper trunnion pockets and ball mounting surface are. Mine has a raised area which houses the ball and nut. This effectively eliminates trunnion/ nut interference, and now that I think about it, lowers the spring bar trunnion end relative to the trailer frame by about 3/4 - 1".
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Old 04-18-2011, 04:07 PM   #21
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I remember seeing this picture previously and compared it to my setup. Fortunately, I don't have that issue. You're yoke is almost parallel to the A-Frame, whereas mine hangs at an angle to the frame and that creates the contact problem. I can think of only two things that might affect yokes angle, the distance of the hinge from the ball socket and the number of links from the hanger bracket to the hook.

The yoke's hinge point on the mounting bracket should be 18" from the center of the ball socket according to the installation directions.

And then, generally, there should 5 links from the hangar bracket to the hook. That can be adjusted by tilting the ball.

I suspect you know all of this, but thought I'd lay it out anyway. BTW - beautiful workmanship on that kayak!


JimW
Jim,

18" is for the round bars. For trunnions, the instructions say 19 3/8"....and that's not enough with the new part numbers, as the OP and I have found out. They need to be about 20"! HOWEVER, I don't think that's why the bolts snapped. The stresses really don't change dependent on cam arm length...only by spring flex and some associated friction. I think the knowledgeable metalurgists above have the right answer. Now I gotta run out and get me some grade 8s. My AS is at the storage lot. Does anybody have the size and pitch we're looking for?
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Old 04-18-2011, 08:48 PM   #22
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My bolts were put on by a air wrench set very low. Just enough to snug them.
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Old 04-18-2011, 09:19 PM   #23
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Jim,

18" is for the round bars. For trunnions, the instructions say 19 3/8"....and that's not enough with the new part numbers, as the OP and I have found out. They need to be about 20"! HOWEVER, I don't think that's why the bolts snapped. The stresses really don't change dependent on cam arm length...only by spring flex and some associated friction. I think the knowledgeable metalurgists above have the right answer. Now I gotta run out and get me some grade 8s. My AS is at the storage lot. Does anybody have the size and pitch we're looking for?
dznf0g,

You're are looking at the new install instructions. It wasn't easy to find the pre-2010 directions, but check them out here on pg2, section 3:

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f464...tml#post980268

As far as snapping bolts are concerned, I'm going to have the brackets welded to the A-Frame.

Also, I know from experience that these bolts loosen and there may have been increased stresses do to this. Once the heads snapped off, one would never know.

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Old 04-18-2011, 09:25 PM   #24
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That link isn't going anywhere.....but if the old one states 18" and the new one states 19 3/8" both for the trunnion style square bars, that does support a shorter assembly. But as catsandi and I found, that is still not enough.
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Old 04-18-2011, 09:49 PM   #25
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Wait a minute. I have to rethink all the fiddling I did during my initial setup. I forgot some of it...thank goodness I took some pics so I can retrace my steps.

Initially, I had my yoke bracket set in the same direction as in post #3, with the bolt mount toward the rear of the trailer, mounted with the bolt head center 19 3/4" from ball center. After getting the proper WD setup, by adjusting head tilt and with 5 links under tension, there was not enough adjustment INWARD on the cam to get me to center of spring saddle. I ran out of thread, albeit, barely.

I then swapped sides with the yoke brackets, so that the bolt mount was toward the ball end of the tongue. I can't remember the distance from bolt to center of ball this way, but it extends the cam bar out too far. It's OK, I think but the threaded portion only just completely fills all the nut threads.....nothing sticking out. Operated fine for the 980 miles home.

Now I've got myself really confused on the differences between the new and old part number. It would be really nice to see the components laid out next to one another.
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Old 04-18-2011, 10:04 PM   #26
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I checked out the bars and there is some chipping on the bars paint so it might have come in contact while I was slow maneuvering the trailer. After u had the new bolts installed I did several laps around the rv center with the mechanic watching and they didn't bind or make contact.

The picture attached is where the second bolt sheared off.
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Old 04-19-2011, 11:32 AM   #27
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Given my uncertainy of the quality of the material used in the arm and cam assembly, I am giving up on Reese. I talked to the local Reese dealer this morning. They are going to accept my arms and brackets as a warranty return.

I am changing over the the Equalizer system.

Anyone want a Reese head and 1200lb bars cheap?
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Old 04-19-2011, 01:01 PM   #28
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Given my uncertainy of the quality of the material used in the arm and cam assembly, I am giving up on Reese. I talked to the local Reese dealer this morning. They are going to accept my arms and brackets as a warranty return.

I am changing over the the Equalizer system.

Anyone want a Reese head and 1200lb bars cheap?
Michelle

Not sure you will get any satisfaction from Cequent but here is their phone number. In the past they have replaced quite a few new parts because of poor quality in manufacturing. There parts are now made in Mexico and have ZERO quality control.

At least you can register your thoughts.
Cequent Towing 248 631 5450 800 521 0510




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