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Old 07-14-2008, 12:44 PM   #1
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Reese Dual Cam Set Up...

I have had a lot of problems with my Reese Dual Cam hitch set up.

I think that I finally have it corrected and would like some feedback from the following photo's.

First, here's a picture of the truck and trailer:

Click image for larger version

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ID:	63615


Here's another view:

Click image for larger version

Name:	Rig.jpg
Views:	598
Size:	81.8 KB
ID:	63616

And, last we have a close up of the hitch bits:

Click image for larger version

Name:	Hitch.jpg
Views:	2101
Size:	346.5 KB
ID:	63617

So, does this look correct?

Is there anything that jumps out at anyone that looks incorrect?

Here are the axle weights:

Front: 5450

Rear: 5300

Trailer: 8800

Note that this was with a full tank of fuel. When the fuel tank is down to a quarter of a tank (60 gallon tank) the weights change a bit:

Front: 5400

Rear: 5420

Trailer: 8860

Given that the front axle weighs in at 5150 when the truck has nothing on the flatbed I think this is set up fairly well.

The pictures don't really do justice to the space between the weight distribution bars and the "knuckle" for the dual cam sway control.

Also note that there is a plate between the trailer frame and the chain pull up mechanism that is a quarter inch thinck piece of aluminum. I found I had to do something to get more space between the bars and the "knuckle" of the dual cam.

Any/all input greatly appreciated...

Jim
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Old 07-14-2008, 01:14 PM   #2
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Things look pretty good. The trailer is level, the tuck is level.

If you notice any level of sway while towing tilt the ball back one notch at a time to put more load on the bars, they look like they are not taking much load now. If you move the ball back you may also have to adjust the length on the sway arms so the bars sit centered in the saddles. If you do this do it after you have towed for a 100 ft. in a straight line and stopped using the trailer brakes. This insures things are as close to road conditions as possible.
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Old 07-14-2008, 01:27 PM   #3
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Ball tilt...

Quote:
Originally Posted by HowieE View Post
Things look pretty good. The trailer is level, the tuck is level.

If you notice any level of sway while towing tilt the ball back one notch at a time to put more load on the bars, they look like they are not taking much load now. If you move the ball back you may also have to adjust the length on the sway arms so the bars sit centered in the saddles. If you do this do it after you have towed for a 100 ft. in a straight line and stopped using the trailer brakes. This insures things are as close to road conditions as possible.
HowieE,

Thanks for taking the time to respond.

Yes, the load on the bars is a concern. Having said that, it does take quite a bit of pull to get the chains up and locked even with the jack having raised the trailer/hitch ball quite high.

As for the towing, we traveled a bit over 250 miles going to the coast and back this past week over some freeway and 80+ miles (each way) of twisty mountain roads. Sway is a non issue. In fact it always has been a non issue with this hitch.

My previous problems were associated with the bending/breaking of the threaded rod that is the piece on which the weight distribution bars rest. The shim installation was intended to help with that problem.

Given the axle weights I have to ask about the need to have more pressure on the bars. The rear of the truck comes up a fair amount with the bars set where they are. I have tried one fewer link but it took so much effort to get the bars pulled up and locked in place that I deiced it really was not necessary; again, based on the axle weights.

I'm in a bit of a quandry to understand why I would want more pressure on the bars given the axle weights. I'm open to receiving info about this...

Jim
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Old 07-14-2008, 02:11 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by norsea View Post
... So, does this look correct?

Is there anything that jumps out at anyone that looks incorrect?

Any/all input greatly appreciated...
Jim - that's a pretty good looking set-up.

I would suggest you try to draw up the bars one more link -

I thought I was good on my Sovereign - 3/4 ton Dodge van set up with 3 links up, but I was able to find a 1 1/4" XX hvy aluminum pipe and picked up one more link (http://www.airforums.com/forums/f219...ign-14737.html) - what a difference that made.

You have a plenty heavy tow vehicle - but I would try to grab one more link to compare towing characteristics.

One more comment - twisting your chains to take up slack is really not a good thing to do - there may be way too much stress put in the chain should it be asked to do what it is supposed to in an emergency. Much better to take up a couple of links with a quick link (screw connected link) or, better still, permanently remove one or two links until the chain length is "perfect" for your tow/trailer combination.

Double click pic for enlargement.
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Old 07-14-2008, 03:02 PM   #5
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Don't kill me please!

I see people sweating like anything to raise their WD bars... and yet there is a solution that is so easy you'll cry when I say it.


Put the hitch jack DOWN on the ground solid and RAISE THE BALL, now hook up the tensioning chains on the bars, snap them in and lock them down.

THEN crank the hitch jack up and watch as the weight settles on the ball and the weight bars.


Paula
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Old 07-14-2008, 03:37 PM   #6
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Twisted chains....

Quote:
Originally Posted by 87MH View Post
Jim - that's a pretty good looking set-up.

I would suggest you try to draw up the bars one more link -

I thought I was good on my Sovereign - 3/4 ton Dodge van set up with 3 links up, but I was able to find a 1 1/4" XX hvy aluminum pipe and picked up one more link (http://www.airforums.com/forums/f219...ign-14737.html) - what a difference that made.

You have a plenty heavy tow vehicle - but I would try to grab one more link to compare towing characteristics.

One more comment - twisting your chains to take up slack is really not a good thing to do - there may be way too much stress put in the chain should it be asked to do what it is supposed to in an emergency. Much better to take up a couple of links with a quick link (screw connected link) or, better still, permanently remove one or two links until the chain length is "perfect" for your tow/trailer combination.

Double click pic for enlargement.
Dennis,

Thanks for taking the time to respond.

I have always wondered about twisting chains. While I have no definitive info from an engineering point about this being something to/not do I am inclined to agree that it would be MUCH better to trim the excess links and, "do it right".

As for the spring bars,my only concern about pulling up another link is the impact this will have on the transfer of weight to the front axle of my tow vehicle. Given the Big, HEAVY cast iron engine block that causes the truck to weigh 5100 lbs. in the front and 3100 lbs. in the rear when empty and nothing is on the hitch, I am somewhat reluctant to transfer more weight to the front axle given the current weight distribution.

Am I wrong in my thinking that more pressure put on the spring bars causes more weight transfer to the front axle and the trailer axle? I have been laboring under the thought that this was the purpose of the spring bars.

As I mentioned in my original posting the weight distribution does change a fair amount as the fuel in our 60 gallon tank is depleted. From a handling standpoint the rig does very well at the minute. This does NOT mean that it cannot be improved upon. I'm just not sure what pulling up another link will do for me other than redistribute more weight from the rear axle.

My thinking is that having the tow vehicle weight distributed as equally as possible to each axle is the best of all possible solutions. But, having said that, I have absolutely nothing other than my "thoughts" to back this up. In other words, I'm just taking a SWAG about this.

Jim
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Old 07-14-2008, 03:44 PM   #7
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When I look at the picture of the arms, I think the ball might be tipped too far back. That is why the arms are not parallel to the trailer frame. I would go through the Reese instructions for the setup.

I do not have a dual cam, but on the trunnion without the dual cam the ball angle is critical for getting the correct tension in the arms.
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Old 07-14-2008, 03:51 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by norsea View Post
I have had a lot of problems with my Reese Dual Cam hitch set up.

I think that I finally have it corrected and would like some feedback from the following photo's.

First, here's a picture of the truck and trailer:

Attachment 63615


Here's another view:

Attachment 63616

And, last we have a close up of the hitch bits:

Attachment 63617

So, does this look correct?

Is there anything that jumps out at anyone that looks incorrect?

Here are the axle weights:

Front: 5450

Rear: 5300

Trailer: 8800

Note that this was with a full tank of fuel. When the fuel tank is down to a quarter of a tank (60 gallon tank) the weights change a bit:

Front: 5400

Rear: 5420

Trailer: 8860

Given that the front axle weighs in at 5150 when the truck has nothing on the flatbed I think this is set up fairly well.

The pictures don't really do justice to the space between the weight distribution bars and the "knuckle" for the dual cam sway control.

Also note that there is a plate between the trailer frame and the chain pull up mechanism that is a quarter inch thinck piece of aluminum. I found I had to do something to get more space between the bars and the "knuckle" of the dual cam.

Any/all input greatly appreciated...

Jim

Jim.

The only thing that jumps out for me, is the torsion arm rating. Your bars are not bending enough.

In your case, with a heavy duty tow vehicle, you should be using a light rated bar, like 600 to 750 pounds.

It appears from your photo, that your using 1000 pound or more, rated bars.

The idea, is to transfer weight, "AND" to have a soft connection between the tow vehicle and the trailer.

If your hitch/suspension system setup is too rigid, you will cause damage to the front end of the trailer.

A simple test, is to stand on the coupler when hooked up to the truck. Bounce up and down. The coupler should move vertically about 2 inches or so.

If not, then your hitch arrangmemt is to heavy for your use.

Shearing rivets, damaging the sheet metal, causing water leaks, are just some of the problems that can happen, when the suspension is too rigid.

Andy
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Old 07-14-2008, 04:11 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foiled Again View Post
Put the hitch jack DOWN on the ground solid and RAISE THE BALL, now hook up the tensioning chains on the bars, snap them in and lock them down.

Paula
I think what you are trying to say when you mention Raise The Ball is while the trailer is on and lock to the ball raise the combination to a point that the load is reduced while hooking up the chains. This is common practice but some have not yet gotten the word.
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Old 07-14-2008, 04:12 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by norsea
...As for the spring bars,my only concern about pulling up another link is the impact this will have on the transfer of weight to the front axle of my tow vehicle... Am I wrong in my thinking that more pressure put on the spring bars causes more weight transfer to the front axle and the trailer axle?... From a handling standpoint the rig does very well at the minute. This does NOT mean that it cannot be improved upon. I'm just not sure what pulling up another link will do for me other than redistribute more weight from the rear axle....My thinking is that having the tow vehicle weight distributed as equally as possible to each axle is the best of all possible solutions. But, having said that, I have absolutely nothing other than my "thoughts" to back this up. In other words, I'm just taking a SWAG about this...
Jim:

Having a "safe" tow vehicle is what it is all about - I am definitely on the side of matching the TV to the trailer - certainly a couple of hundred pounds either on or off of the front OR rear axle would hardly be noticed on your rig - take up a link, weigh the thing on a CAT scale, take the link back out and re-weigh immediately - you can get both weighs for the cost of a few gallons of go juice. First weighs down here in Texas are 10 bucks - each reweigh is one or two dollars additional.

The additional "spring" in the arms will help IF you get into a side to side sway - and your tow vehicle will probably never realize you pulled up one more link in normal towing.

I would certainly measure known values before and after each weigh (bumpers to ground, wheel well to tire, etc.) and let the truck "talk" to you as to which set up feels and looks the best.

One advantage of the cheap re-weighs is that you can get an additional weigh with each trailer axle on a scale pad and see if the addition (or deletion) of links effects the weight on the front/rear axle. I found that my front/rear axle weights WERE slightly different with the various links I had taken up on the Reese.

Please share your results of the weigh-ins here in the Forums.
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Old 07-14-2008, 05:13 PM   #11
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Correct bars????

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inland RV Center, In View Post
Jim.

The only thing that jumps out for me, is the torsion arm rating. Your bars are not bending enough.

In your case, with a heavy duty tow vehicle, you should be using a light rated bar, like 600 to 750 pounds.

It appears from your photo, that your using 1000 pound or more, rated bars.

The idea, is to transfer weight, "AND" to have a soft connection between the tow vehicle and the trailer.

If your hitch/suspension system setup is too rigid, you will cause damage to the front end of the trailer.

A simple test, is to stand on the coupler when hooked up to the truck. Bounce up and down. The coupler should move vertically about 2 inches or so.

If not, then your hitch arrangmemt is to heavy for your use.

Shearing rivets, damaging the sheet metal, causing water leaks, are just some of the problems that can happen, when the suspension is too rigid.

Andy
Andy and Richard (I'm responding two to posts in one here),

Thanks to you both for responding.

First, for Andy (see below for my response to Richard and then for you both),

Right you are about the bars; in my case they are the 1000 bars.

I can understand how the connection being stiff would cause problems with the trailer front end; and the hitch for the tow vehicle too.

I have not done the "bounce up and down" test specifically, but from memory I do recall the hitch sinking a bit when I stand on it to get up onto the flatbed of the truck.

I am very happy with the weight transfer as it stands today. I'm not sure what I can do to get the weight distributed between my tow vehicle axles any better. As to the ride, I have not noticed anything that would imply the connection between the tow vehicle and the trailer is to stiff; but my comments result from "seat of the pants" feel while operating the vehicle. When we encounter terrible road surfaces there certainly is movement (up and down) between the truck and trailer. This movement is not prolonged and I have put that down to good suspension system components on both the tow vehicle and the trailer. FWIW, both were purchased new in Oct. and Nov. of last year.

To date, we have NEVER experienced any sway issues.

I have to admit that I am a bit confused about your recommendation for the 600 to 700 lb. bars. When researching the purchase of this hitch I was led to believe that a trailer with a GVW of 10,000 lbls. and a tongue weight of 1000 lbs. would require the 1000 or 1200 pound rated bars. Given that our trailer is a 30' Classic I thought I had purchased the correct hitch configuration.

FWIW, my tongue weight varies between 850 and 950 lbs. depending on the volume of the three holding tanks. The contents of the trailer other than that rarely varies except for the food we consume and it is replenished as it is eaten. Yes, we use the trailer a lot and we do not haul things in and out of it at all.

Andy, if I understand what you are saying, the use of the 1000 lb. bars is incorrect.

I do not mean to be inflammatory about this but everything I received from Reese stipulates the 1000 or 1200 lbs. bars for a trailer with a tongue weight of 1000 lbs..

Given the poor quality of the Reese installation instructions for this hitch and sway control (errors included in the instructions have been admitted by Reese) I now have to wonder if the recommendation for the specific spring bars Reese is making is also incorrect; yet another typo. Is that what you are saying?

Richard,

As to the ball angle.

I have tried many different ball angle positions. I have also tried a different draw bar that allows the hitch to be mounted in a lower position.

All of this was done testing differing weights on the back of the truck. The current set up is the best I have been able to come up with that gets the top of the trailer hitch to be at 19.75' from the ground when everything is connected and sitting on level pavement. I have been led to believe that 19.75" was the optimal position for the hitch with everything connected and level. I could be wrong.

As to the angle in relation to the spring bars. I can understand how changing the angle would have an impact on the position of the bars. I have also found that the angle also impacts the height of the hitch from the ground as well. In order to archive this 19.75" measurement this is the potion that my hitch must be in and it must be with the current draw bar. The other draw bar I have allows me to have the hitch at a lower position but with the weight the truck currently carries I cannot get the hitch height adjusted to 19.75"; the entire rig does not sit level with the other draw bar.

For both Andy and Richard and anyone else who cares to respond, I will hark back to my questions about the weight on my axles. From what I can tell I have achieved a "good" weight distribution with things as they are positioned. Fortunately for me, here in Oregon we have lots of truck scales on our highways that are used mostly for random weighing of log trucks (and any others on the road) when they are maned. 90% of the time they are not maned and one can drive right on and weigh with no fees whatsoever. :-)

I have tried lots of different combination of draw bars, hitch positions and links on the chain and the current set up reflects the best I have been able to do to distribute the weight evenly between my tow vehicle axles.

Having said all that, I am VERY concerned about Andy's comments about the spring bars being to "strong" for my application. Given his experience in this industry I would be a fool not to heed his words and I await his response.

Jim
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Old 07-14-2008, 05:50 PM   #12
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Andy and Richard (I'm responding two to posts in one here),

Thanks to you both for responding.

First, for Andy (see below for my response to Richard and then for you both),

Right you are about the bars; in my case they are the 1000 bars.
Lets take it a step further and you will easily see why that recommendation, is full of holes.

As an example, if I had the same trailer as you do, but I had a Peterbilt truck, would you still tell me that I needed a 1000 to 1200 bar. Of course not.

The real rule is simple Physics.

How much tongue weight you have is secondary to the suspension of the tow vehicle. In you case, you have a truck for the Queen Mary.

The selection of the bar rating is as follows.

Use whatever rating you wish, provided that it keeps the trailer level with respect to it self, and the same for the tow vehicle,AND at the same time the bars should bend 1 1/2 to 2 inches.

That setup allows the front of the trailer to move up and down when you jump on the coupler.

To say it moves a little, is not enough.

Saying a trailer does not sway can only come from a person who has ridden in the back of the trailer at 60 mph, and never from the driver.

As you will see, time will take it's toll in due time.

Having been in the Airstream service business for over 42 years, provides a person with considerable information.

Our service department makes "BIG" bucks, putting a trailer and it's furniture back together again, that was damaged by what your rig will do.

Airstream trailers love a soft ride. If you destroy that soft ride, you will slowly but surely destroy the trailer.

Guaranteed.

Keep in mind that I have witness thousands of trailers that have needlessly been damaged as we have talked about.

That information, is far superior, to opinions, as well as there is always an exception to every rule, except perhaps Physics, which will dictate the resultant damage to your Airstream.

Sorry, but you asked.

Andy
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Old 07-14-2008, 06:05 PM   #13
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Just to add to Andy's post, one of our forums members (Artstream) tows a 29' Excella with an E350 box truck, which is more-or-less the same suspension as your truck. He uses 500# Reese bars with his, and they work very well for him.
What we are telling you is not something noticeable in 500 or even a few thousand miles towing, it is cumulative over the life of the trailer.
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Old 07-14-2008, 07:17 PM   #14
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Spring bars....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inland RV Center, In View Post
Lets take it a step further and you will easily see why that recommendation, is full of holes.

<SNIPPY>

The selection of the bar rating is as follows.

Use whatever rating you wish, provided that it keeps the trailer level with respect to it self, and the same for the tow vehicle,AND at the same time the bars should bend 1 1/2 to 2 inches.

That setup allows the front of the trailer to move up and down when you jump on the coupler.

<BIG SNIPPY>

Sorry, but you asked.

Andy
Andy, thanks again for getting involved in this.

NOTHING to by sorry about! I have never been afraid of answers. I ask questions in order to learn the error of my ways.

You have forgotten more about the towing of trailers than I will ever know.

As I said previously, "I would be a fool not to heed his words". I meant that and will be placing an order for the lower rated bars as soon as I finish typing this message.

Your response is exactly why I made my original post; I need information in order to do things properly. I am an ignoramus when it comes to hitch set up. While I can read and understand lots of things I find that people with the experience that you have is invaluable.

Jim
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