Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 10-04-2014, 11:17 PM   #309
2 Rivet Member
 
2014 28' International
San Jose , California
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 54
Images: 1
guessing

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Gratz View Post
Jim, your scales numbers, combined with estimated dimensions for your TV/TT and estimated unhitched axle loads, indicate a FALR very close to 100%.

I'll report to the former art critics and theorists that the FALR of 100% causes you to be a happy camper.
Would I be going too far if I also reported you are ready to become a disciple?

Ron
quite concerned about your statements when you are only guessing and do not have the complete data of the empty vehicle weight. Also with these self proclaimed jesus type of opinions " this is the right path to perfection" or you are an infidele if you do not follow me. My concern is this obsesive compulsion that you have to desqualify other members on this forum that have a different opinion and approach and that have compilated real data on the field for a number of years and are still working on the field.what is the point then? l will suggest you write the book, the manual, and most than anything your field test and experience, what have you learned from your own experience, specially considering the tv and its capabilities, not all trucks will break or have a catastrofic failure if you overloaded them with extra 60pounds correct? good luck.
__________________

__________________
Flyingsilver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2014, 04:38 PM   #310
Prairie Schooner II
 
Jim Flower's Avatar

 
2012 30' International
1997 25' Safari
1967 20' Globetrotter
Burlington , Ontario
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,182
Hi Ron,
I got another set of weights this week end. Jeep unloaded front axel 3080, rear 2960, and for some unknown reason trailer axel but there was no trailer attached, 20 lbs, for a gross weight of 6060 lbs.
Jeep loaded front axel 3000, rear 3700, Airstream 7600 lbs.
So it would appear that I am not getting as much weight forward as I thought, based on my measuring wheel well heights and what has me really puzzled is that both the front and rear well well measurements were less loaded vs unloaded with the air suspension turned off. I really appreciate your comments and it would appear that I may be well on my way to becoming a FALR believer, even on a short wheel base vehicle. Jim


Sent from my iPad using Airstream Forums
__________________

__________________
Jim
Jim Flower is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2014, 10:29 PM   #311
2 Rivet Member
 
2014 28' International
San Jose , California
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 54
Images: 1
underhitched

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Flower View Post
Isn't that a riot. Now I am going to have to weigh the Jeep empty just to confirm that I will have to find another reason for sometimes being antagonistic. Yes, too far at this time. It takes a while get used to the idea. I will come back here to report. Again, thanks Ron. Jim


Sent from my iPad using Airstream Forums
Ron, from my previous reply, I did no mention that you started a tread called underhitched what exactly is your point, and since the underhitched is all about the " soft performance of the TT " so what goes, this is the forum to talk about it.... thank you man.
__________________
Flyingsilver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2014, 10:33 PM   #312
4 Rivet Member
 
Livingston , Texas
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 394
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Flower View Post
Hi Ron,
I got another set of weights this week end. Jeep unloaded front axel 3080, rear 2960, and for some unknown reason trailer axel but there was no trailer attached, 20 lbs, for a gross weight of 6060 lbs.
Jeep loaded front axel 3000, rear 3700, Airstream 7600 lbs.---
Jim, thanks for posting the new weights.
The 20# reading for the "unloaded" trailer axle pad represents the resolution of the scales. It's not uncommon for a weight to be off by plus/minus 20#.

The scales numbers indicate a tongue weight of 763# with 103# transferred to the TT's axles.
The indicated trailer weight is (3000+3700+7600)-(3080-2960) = 8260#.

The indicated TW of 763# is unexpectedly low for your trailer.
Also, the unloaded weight of 6040# is about 800# higher than the published curb weight for your TV.
Does it seem reasonable to you that you would have had 800# of occupants and cargo in the GC when it was weighed?
Was the load of occupants and cargo in the GC the same for both the unhitched weighing and the hitched-with-WD-applied weighing?

Quote:
---So it would appear that I am not getting as much weight forward as I thought, based on my measuring wheel well heights and what has me really puzzled is that both the front and rear well well measurements were less loaded vs unloaded with the air suspension turned off.---
If you hook up the WD bars by first raising the tongue with the tongue jack --
the upward force on the ball will cause load to be removed from the rear axle and added to the front axle -- just the opposite of what happens when TW is applied to the ball.
An upward force of 1000# could cause about 500# to be added to the front suspension. The added load would depress the front suspension.
When the tongue jack is retracted, the load on the front suspension will decrease -- but, hysteresis effects in the front suspension components could result in the front-end returning to a lower height than one would expect.
This could explain why the front-end height when hitched with WD applied was less than when unhitched -- even though the hitched load was less than the unhitched load.

Quote:
I really appreciate your comments and it would appear that I may be well on my way to becoming a FALR believer, even on a short wheel base vehicle.
Your new scales data indicate a FALR value of 78%.
This falls in the range of FALR specifications from Ford, GMC/Chevrolet, Toyota, Equal-i-zer, and Reese which vary from 50% to 100%.

However, we still need to consider the seemingly low tongue weight and high unhitched TV weight indicated by your scales data.

Ron
__________________
Ron Gratz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2014, 02:11 PM   #313
Prairie Schooner II
 
Jim Flower's Avatar

 
2012 30' International
1997 25' Safari
1967 20' Globetrotter
Burlington , Ontario
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,182
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Gratz View Post
Jim, thanks for posting the new weights.

The 20# reading for the "unloaded" trailer axle pad represents the resolution of the scales. It's not uncommon for a weight to be off by plus/minus 20#.



The scales numbers indicate a tongue weight of 763# with 103# transferred to the TT's axles.

The indicated trailer weight is (3000+3700+7600)-(3080-2960) = 8260#.



The indicated TW of 763# is unexpectedly low for your trailer.

Also, the unloaded weight of 6040# is about 800# higher than the published curb weight for your TV.

Does it seem reasonable to you that you would have had 800# of occupants and cargo in the GC when it was weighed?


No. I had a max of about 450 of passengers and cargo.

Was the load of occupants and cargo in the GC the same for both the unhitched weighing and the hitched-with-WD-applied weighing?


No. About 50 lbs more on the unhitched weighing.

If you hook up the WD bars by first raising the tongue with the tongue jack --

the upward force on the ball will cause load to be removed from the rear axle and added to the front axle -- just the opposite of what happens when TW is applied to the ball.

An upward force of 1000# could cause about 500# to be added to the front suspension. The added load would depress the front suspension.

When the tongue jack is retracted, the load on the front suspension will decrease -- but, hysteresis effects in the front suspension components could result in the front-end returning to a lower height than one would expect.

This could explain why the front-end height when hitched with WD applied was less than when unhitched -- even though the hitched load was less than the unhitched load.



Your new scales data indicate a FALR value of 78%.

This falls in the range of FALR specifications from Ford, GMC/Chevrolet, Toyota, Equal-i-zer, and Reese which vary from 50% to 100%.



However, we still need to consider the seemingly low tongue weight and high unhitched TV weight indicated by your scales data.



Yes. I did have full water and full propane. I also have 4 AGMs in the front area. No spare. I thought I had about 1200 pounds of TW. I think I should take all my junk out of the Jeep and try weighing it again. Jim

Ron




Sent from my iPhone using Airstream Forums
__________________
Jim
Jim Flower is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2014, 10:37 PM   #314
4 Rivet Member
 
Livingston , Texas
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 394
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Flower View Post
I think I should take all my junk out of the Jeep and try weighing it again.
Jim, if you make another weighing --
you can gain more information about load transfer if you take three sets of data:

1. TV front axle load on pad #1 and TV rear axle load on pad #2 for TV only. (WDH and bars should be in the receiver or in the rear of the TV).

2. TV front axle load on pad #1, TV rear axle load on pad #2, and TT axles' load on pad #3 for TT attached with no load on WD bars.

3. TV front axle load on pad #1, TV rear axle load on pad #2, and TT axles' load on pad #3 for TT attached with WD bars tensioned.

The occupants and cargo in the TV should remain the same for all weighings.
The air suspension should be "on" during the second weighing to keep the TT close to level.
The air suspension should be "on" when the WDH is adjusted. If not, the load transfer will be decreased when the air suspension does get activated.

Ron
__________________
Ron Gratz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2014, 11:14 PM   #315
Prairie Schooner II
 
Jim Flower's Avatar

 
2012 30' International
1997 25' Safari
1967 20' Globetrotter
Burlington , Ontario
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,182
Ron
Thanks for the description. I am away on business this week but will get the weighing done next weekend when I get home if I recover from being jammed into a cigar tube for 4 hours. It's getting harder. I would much rather spend 4 days driving with my own bed to sleep in and my own stuff around me, which is what I do when I have more time. Jim


Sent from my iPhone using Airstream Forums
__________________
Jim
Jim Flower is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2014, 11:07 AM   #316
4 Rivet Member
 
Livingston , Texas
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 394
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyingsilver View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Flower
Isn't that a riot. Now I am going to have to weigh the Jeep empty just to confirm that I will have to find another reason for sometimes being antagonistic. Yes, too far at this time. It takes a while get used to the idea. I will come back here to report. Again, thanks Ron. Jim
Ron, from my previous reply, I did no mention that you started a tread called underhitched what exactly is your point, and since the underhitched is all about the " soft performance of the TT " so what goes, this is the forum to talk about it.... thank you man.
Flyingsilver, I didn't notice that this post was directed to me. When I saw that you had quoted Jim Flower, I thought your comments were directed to him.

Yes, I did start a thread called "Underhitched" - Any Evidence of Damage to WD Bars? -- I had forgotten about it.

In Another thread on a different Forum, I suggested that WD bars could be sized on the basis of how much load one wanted to transfer rather than on the TT's tongue weight.
One member questioned whether this might result in overstressing of and damage to the WD bars.

Since I knew that some Airstream owners were using WD bars rated for considerably less than the TW, I posted here to see if anyone had experienced damage.
I didn't expect that there would be any damage, and none has been reported.

Sorry for the late reply.

Ron
__________________
Ron Gratz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2015, 10:26 PM   #317
Rivet Master
 
drboyd's Avatar

 
1978 25' Tradewind
Metro Phoenix , Arizona
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,428
Subscribing

......
__________________
"Between what matters and what seems to matter, how should the world we know judge wisely?" - E.C. Bentley, Trent's Last Case
drboyd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2016, 01:30 PM   #318
Full Time Adventurer
 
BoldAdventure's Avatar
 
2007 27' International CCD FB
Nomadic , USA
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 2,743
Question

Reviving this thread to get some opinions. I am using 1000 lb bars. ( I might need to double check that)

Seems I am almost at 100% FALR

Cat tickets

First, just the truck loaded with all of us and some gear.
Steer: 4620 .lbs
Drive: 3740 .lbs
Gross: 8360 .lbs

The second pass is truck and Airstream but no weight distribution.
Steer: 4180 .lbs
Drive: 5140 .lbs
Trailer: 6780 .lbs
Gross: 16100 .lbs

So tongue weight is 960 lbs. Not bad.

Third pass, truck + Airstream with weight distribution applied
Steer: 4580 lbs.
Drive: 4620 lbs.
Trailer: 6900 lbs.
Gross: 16100 lbs.



To me it doesn't look like I have any real bend in my hitch.





I'm wondering if I should consider using a smaller bar, like 800lbs so that the ride isn't as harsh using a 3/4 ton.

Or should I just keep it like it is. Thoughts?
__________________
Family of 4 living, working & exploring the USA in our Airstream.
OUR BLOG | FACEBOOK | INSTAGRAM
BoldAdventure is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2016, 01:51 PM   #319
Rivet Master
 
dznf0g's Avatar

 
2007 30' Classic
Oswego , Illinois
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 9,408
Images: 5
I used 800s with my 30' classic. Worked well.

Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG00204-20110315-1339.jpg
Views:	42
Size:	399.7 KB
ID:	260113
__________________
-Rich-

"If the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy." - Red Green
dznf0g is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2016, 02:35 PM   #320
Rivet Master
 
TomW's Avatar
 
1967 26' Overlander
Huntsville , Alabama
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 2,918
Images: 2
Half that

I would DEFINITELY not use 1000 lb bars with your HD truck.

It would be nice if you could borrow a set of 550 lb bars - That's what I use for 460 lb tongue weight hitched to my HD truck and they could easily bend more than they do.

I will bet that your 960 lb tongue weight would put the perfect bend in them.

Tom
TomW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2016, 02:41 PM   #321
PKI
Rivet Master
 
PKI's Avatar
 
2015 23' FB Flying Cloud
Walnut Creek , California
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 2,020
There is a rather extensive thread on the advantage of going to a lighter bar with a stiffer TV.

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f464...-up-43568.html

In general it says - use lighter bars with heavier TV. Use 1000# bars for a big car; 800# bars for a 1/2ton without overloads; 750# for 1/2 ton with overloads; 550# for 1/2ton with overloads and 3/4ton or larger tow vehicles.

Your 3/4 may not quite fit the trend as it is a bit softer sprung, but the thread is food for thought. It was recommended to me and it's only right to pass the info forward. Hope it helps.

Travel Safe. Pat
__________________
PKI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2016, 02:49 PM   #322
Rivet Master
 
dznf0g's Avatar

 
2007 30' Classic
Oswego , Illinois
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 9,408
Images: 5
Pat...you just referenced the same thread we are posting in!
__________________

__________________
-Rich-

"If the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy." - Red Green
dznf0g is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
new reese dual cam Bing-Bing Hitches, Couplers & Balls 11 05-27-2007 01:40 PM
Reese Dual Cam HP Problem uwe Hitches, Couplers & Balls 14 05-24-2006 09:41 PM
Reese dual cam HP junbe Hitches, Couplers & Balls 12 04-07-2005 07:10 PM
Reese friction to Reese Dual Cam ? Kistler Our Community 7 07-01-2003 08:53 PM


Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:10 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.