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Old 09-20-2014, 09:15 PM   #267
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Greetings,

I have a question for you.

We just drove over 1000 miles from Portland to Phoenix our new 28ft International signature, we towed ot with a Dodge Ram 1500ecodiesel. In a previous tread you recomended to me to use the Reese Dual cam, and we follow your advise. We left portland with the chains hooked to the 5th link, but once we got into I-5 I found the truck difficult to handle, ot was like i had no control of tje steering and it was quite bouncing on the back, so we dorve back to the dealership and after a brief description of the problem to the chief hitch installer we raised the links to the 4th one. Once we did that the whole thing changed, I felt then to have full control. We drove the whole trip with no incident, great control, no sway up to speds of 65 and short moments of 70mph. However i did weigh the truck empty.

STEER, 3420
Drive. 3140
GrossW. 6560
This is myself, wife and about 300 lbs of cargo, the truck has a leer shelf that weights about 300lbs

Out of Portland we stopped at the cat scale and jeee are the results.

STEER 3540
Drive. 3780
Trailer 5600
Total 12920

The trailer empty weight is 5923, tongue weight of 950lbs

I have to mention that all the cargo weight was to the front of the rear axle close the the cabin and the trailer had a full tank of fresh water.

On the road we disconected the unhooked the trailer a couple of times and each time i jad to raise the chain tensioner hook was not easy, i felt I was getting the chains to tense at the 4th link. My question is, did make a mistake in having all the cargo weight to the front of the rear axle? those 300lbs could have made a difference in have a equal balance with front and rear axle, or you think we should tilt the ball rearward a notch. Any help will be very appreciate it. And thank you again for recomending to use the Resse dual cam, we have the 800lbs bars. You have suggested the 600, but the dealer was hard to deal in delivering the set with shat we wanted. Cheers and thank you again.
Your almost there.

Ideally, 2/3 rd's of the 960 should go to the tow vehicle. Your weights show 760 pounds instead of 620 pounds. That means the bars are not doing the best job that they can.

Tilt the ball mount down ward some more, so that 5 links are stressed much more than originally, even more than with the 4 links.

The bars may bend 2 inches, or more, which would improve the handling even moreso.

With the present setup, how much are the bars bending?

Andy
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Old 09-20-2014, 09:33 PM   #268
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Originally Posted by Inland RV Center, In View Post
Your almost there.

Ideally, 2/3 rd's of the 960 should go to the tow vehicle. Your weights show 760 pounds instead of 620 pounds. That means the bars are not doing the best job that they can.

Tilt the ball mount down ward some more, so that 5 links are stressed much more than originally, even more than with the 4 links.

The bars may bend 2 inches, which would improve the handling even more.

With the present setup, how much are the bars bending?

Andy
Andy Thank you a lot for your prompt replay, the bars are bending about an inch, on the road i can feel the trailer bouncing a bit, I think you are right there is room for improvement with tilting the ball mount. You think the 600lbs will help with a softer ride? Anthony
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Old 09-21-2014, 08:44 AM   #269
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Right link set-up

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Originally Posted by Flyingsilver View Post
Andy Thank you a lot for your prompt reply. The bars are bending about an inch. On the road i can feel the trailer bouncing a bit, so I think you are right that there is room for improvement with tilting the ball mount. You think the 600lbs will help with a softer ride? Anthony
Just a quick note to apologize to the readers for my typos in previous messages to Andy. Cheers, Anthony
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Old 09-21-2014, 10:30 AM   #270
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When I was running my Reese DC, there was a lot of discussion on here, and Andy did some testing of various bars. This is the result for me:

Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG00213-20110318-1337.jpg
Views:	116
Size:	343.0 KB
ID:	222457

This was an 800# bar setup, with 850 - 900# tw.

It was the best setup I had ever had, prior to my HAHA.

This is still my go to backup hitch. I believe a good starting point is to choose a bar rating just below your actual TW and crank it to a good flex.
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Old 09-21-2014, 01:19 PM   #271
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Originally Posted by dznf0g View Post
When I was running my Reese DC, there was a lot of discussion on here, and Andy did some testing of various bars. This is the result for me:

Attachment 222457

This was an 800# bar setup, with 850 - 900# tw.

It was the best setup I had ever had, prior to my HAHA.

This is still my go to backup hitch. I believe a good starting point is to choose a bar rating just below your actual TW and crank it to a good flex.
Two nice things to bend in life, are tempers and load equalizing hitch bars.



Andy
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Old 09-21-2014, 03:32 PM   #272
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how bout elbows?
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Old 09-21-2014, 03:58 PM   #273
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how bout elbows?
aye, now yer talkin'!
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Old 09-21-2014, 08:23 PM   #274
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Originally Posted by Flyingsilver View Post
---My question is, did make a mistake in having all the cargo weight to the front of the rear axle? those 300lbs could have made a difference in have a equal balance with front and rear axle, or you think we should tilt the ball rearward a notch.---
If your objective is to make the front and rear axle loads equal -- having the 300# as far forward as possible will help to achieve that objective.
However, IMO, adding enough load to the front axle to make it equal to the rear axle is not a desirable objective.
If you were able to transfer enough load, you would end up with about 3640# on the front axle -- probably being close to exceeding the front GAWR.

Your recent scales data indicate a tongue weight of 1010# with 250# being transferred to the TT's axles.
The tongue weight would have caused a load of approximately 400# to be removed from the front axle.
The WDH was adjusted to add a load of about 520# back onto the front -- meaning the load restored to the front was equal to about 130% of the load which was removed.

Since about 2010, most of the major TV and WDH manufacturers have departed from the old "equal squat" approach.
They now specify that the front axle load, when hitched with WD applied, should not be greater than when unhitched.

I have not found any WDH-adjustment specs forRam trucks. Instead, they defer to the towing equipment manufacturers for guidance.
Reese now specifies, for some of its WDHs:
8. A new term in the industry is (“FALR” – Front Axle Load Return).
100% FALR Means the front fender is returned to the preload position.
That is our recommendation for best performance.
.

I would recommend that you not try to transfer more load to the TV's front axle.
I also recommend that you check the front and rear GAWR values for your TV (found on a sticker on the driver's door edge or pillar).
If you increase the load transfer, you might exceed the front GAWR.
If you decrease the load transfer, you might exceed the rear GAWR.

Ron
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Old 09-21-2014, 08:38 PM   #275
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Physics

Physics doesn't change.

If you have 900 pounds tongue weight, 300 should go back to the trailer axle/axles and 600 should go to the tow vehicle, with 1/4 of that weight on each wheel of the tow vehicle.

That was established decades ago.

Not adding weight to the front axle, or removing weight from it, is BEGGING for a sway and loss of control.

GUARANTEED

Insurance company data proved so, almost a half of a century ago.

Andy
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Old 09-21-2014, 08:53 PM   #276
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Physics doesn't change.
Tow vehicles do.

Ron
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Old 09-21-2014, 09:24 PM   #277
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Tow vehicles do.

Ron
Ron.

Your absolutely correct, and tow vehicles will forever change.

But the Physics of how you load them, or not, doesn't change.

A sway is almost always caused by improper loading and/or rigging.

That will never change.

How to avoid it, is a matter of communication.

Keep in mind, as of today, not one single load equalizing hitch manufacturer has ever done a research program regarding a sway.

Caravanner Insurance did that research in 1970, 1971 and 1972. I know, I was a part of it.

Andy
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Old 09-22-2014, 12:43 AM   #278
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Transfer load

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Originally Posted by Ron Gratz View Post
If your objective is to make the front and rear axle loads equal -- having the 300# as far forward as possible will help to achieve that objective.
However, IMO, adding enough load to the front axle to make it equal to the rear axle is not a desirable objective.
If you were able to transfer enough load, you would end up with about 3640# on the front axle -- probably being close to exceeding the front GAWR.

Your recent scales data indicate a tongue weight of 1010# with 250# being transferred to the TT's axles.
The tongue weight would have caused a load of approximately 400# to be removed from the front axle.
The WDH was adjusted to add a load of about 520# back onto the front -- meaning the load restored to the front was equal to about 130% of the load which was removed.

Since about 2010, most of the major TV and WDH manufacturers have departed from the old "equal squat" approach.
They now specify that the front axle load, when hitched with WD applied, should not be greater than when unhitched.

I have not found any WDH-adjustment specs forRam trucks. Instead, they defer to the towing equipment manufacturers for guidance.
Reese now specifies, for some of its WDHs:
8. A new term in the industry is (“FALR” – Front Axle Load Return).
100% FALR Means the front fender is returned to the preload position.
That is our recommendation for best performance.
.

I would recommend that you not try to transfer more load to the TV's front axle.
I also recommend that you check the front and rear GAWR values for your TV (found on a sticker on the driver's door edge or pillar).
If you increase the load transfer, you might exceed the front GAWR.
If you decrease the load transfer, you might exceed the rear GAWR.

Ron
Ron, thank you for the note, but you got me a bit confused now with the weight transfers. Here are my truck numbers, front, 3700, back, 3900, my max payload is 1432lbs, max towing is 7900 and my Gcvw is 13500. Since my tongue weight as is was 740, don't I need to transfer another 140lbs or so to the front axle? Considering my max weight to the front is 3700. we will be max out but not over the limit. What do you suggest? Thank you a lot for your input. Btw, I was not trying to achieve anything by having a bunch of DEF boxes to the front of the cargo box, it is just an old habit in storing the cargo close to the cabin. Anthony
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Old 09-22-2014, 05:43 AM   #279
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Originally Posted by Flyingsilver View Post

Ron, thank you for the note, but you got me a bit confused now with the weight transfers. Here are my truck numbers, front, 3700, back, 3900, my max payload is 1432lbs, max towing is 7900 and my Gcvw is 13500. Since my tongue weight as is was 740, don't I need to transfer another 140lbs or so to the front axle? Considering my max weight to the front is 3700. we will be max out but not over the limit. What do you suggest? Thank you a lot for your input. Btw, I was not trying to achieve anything by having a bunch of DEF boxes to the front of the cargo box, it is just an old habit in storing the cargo close to the cabin. Anthony
Disclaimer; I'm not Ron :-)

You highlighted his comments about FALR. What he's talking about is the effect on the front axle when you drop the trailer on the rear end of your truck. Lets say for sake of discussion your front axle (with tow vehicle loaded for camping with people, dogs, gear, fuel, etc) weighs 3000# on its own (no trailer attached). Then you connect the trailer without any weight distribution applied and the front end now weighs 2600#. The effect of connecting the trailer on the rear of your tow vehicle lifted 400# off your front axle in this example (use whatever numbers you got from the scales).

When you apply the weight distribution of your hitch, you want to restore a certain amount of weight to your front axle. If you restore all 400# you took off, you achieve 100% FALR (front axle load restoration). Check your owners manual for your tow vehicle. Mine wants 0%, 50% or 100% based on a lot of factors (50% for my specific situation). I think Ron was saying you don't want more than 100% FALR.
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Old 09-22-2014, 08:33 AM   #280
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Physics doesn't change.

If you have 900 pounds tongue weight, 300 should go back to the trailer axle/axles and 600 should go to the tow vehicle, with 1/4 of that weight on each wheel of the tow vehicle.

That was established decades ago.
Andy, can you provide the details on HOW "physics" was used to prove that TV/TT combinations should carry 1/3 of the tongue weight on the TV's front axle, 1/3 on the rear axle, and 1/3 on the TT's axles?

Since the TV and WDH manufacturers now are giving WDH-adjustment specifications which differ from that finding, perhaps the researchers now have different data and/or different analytical methods on which to base their conclusions.

Ron
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