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Old 11-22-2006, 10:48 AM   #29
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We have a dual cam reese also and for the most part pleased, however just reciently ordered a Hensley Arrow for the following reasons. The sway control of a dual cam is dependent upon the presure applyed by the spring bars on the cams. The more pressure, the more it resist hinging at the ball. In our application our tow vehicle,{2004 HD Chev Duramax} is sprung in the rear enough that very little spring tension is needed to level the combo, thus lessing the resistance to turn and sway. I probably could have reduced the rear suspention of the TV by removing a spring leaf or 2 but that would have effected the use of the truck when not towing. The Hensley sway control is not dependent upon the load applyed to the baars to control sway, thus our reason for change. This is not to be critical of the Dual Cam system at all but to point out that even the very best of products must have the proper application.---Pieman
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Old 11-22-2006, 11:19 AM   #30
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what we don't know is the speed the first driver was doing. we have had folks here state they tow at 75 plus miles per. Gotta wonder how smart that is as well.
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Old 11-22-2006, 11:23 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Lewis
We just reciently ordered a Hensley Arrow .---Pieman
hey pieman welcome to the fold...

you are gonna love it!

hopefully you will join us now in this thread....

http://www.airforums.com/forum...de-26279.html?

and share your experience with the transitiion, tips and tricks and so on....

cheers
2air'
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Old 11-22-2006, 11:54 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Lewis
The sway control of a dual cam is dependent upon the presure applyed by the spring bars on the cams.
yes, but that is why they have different sized bars. for a more heavily sprung tow vehicle, you use lighter spring bars, which will function the same with less pressure on the cams.
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Old 11-22-2006, 01:51 PM   #33
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Uhhh, no.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck
...for a more heavily sprung tow vehicle, you use lighter spring bars, which will function the same with less pressure on the cams.
Lighter weight rating spring bars are preferred for heavily sprung tow vehicles because they will allow the Airstream & tow vehicle to flex independantly over something like a pothole in the road.

But any weight spring bar, when adjusted to make the tow vehicle level will put the same amount of pressure on the cams. The force exerted on the cams is what is making the tow vehicle level.

Tom
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Old 11-22-2006, 02:21 PM   #34
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ok cam heads...

i got no cams, so i know from zip...

and would not know the difference between a reese's hitch and a peanut butter cup...

but my interpretation of (inlandandy) bar selection is that the bars need an inch? or more of flex for the antisway function to fully engage...

with a big truck and little trailer the lesser rated bars must flex more to transfer a given mass....and sway control is maximized.

while sway control is reduced with heavier rated bars that are not flexed enough...

have i got that right?

cam heads..

2air'
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Old 11-22-2006, 02:32 PM   #35
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Chuck--- I agree with the part of your statment concerning sizing bars for the spring rate of the tow vehicle. I think we also agree that the more pressure on the cams the more sway control we have. Correct bar sizing is important but the size of the bars is not changed so as to increase or decreased cam pressure but more to help control the ride of the tow vehicle and trailer. To heavy bars cause harsh TV ride but cam presure remains the same as a weaker bar assuming both bars lift the same weight the same distance. Here's my reasoning. If you find fault with it please reply. An illustration:: a wheelbarrow with 2 inch diameter handles is loaded and lifted while measuring the load at the end of the handles. Now if we change handles to 1 inch diameter then lift the same load and measure it again you will find it takes the same amount to lift it as it did the larger handles. The difference is the smaller handles flex more. The presure applied at the hands remains the same. If you roll both wheelbarrows over bumps you would find the one with the smaller bars would "jar" the user less but the energy needed to lift remains the same. While not perfect,the wheelbarrow illustrates similar geometry as the spring bars when they are loaded. As I understand it the cam load is in direct proportion the the amount the bars have to lift the front of the trailer and the rear of the TV to a level attitude. I am not implying that sizing of bars is not important. It is very much so but the purpose is not to increase or decrease cam load.---respectfully ---Pieman
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Old 11-22-2006, 02:48 PM   #36
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Probably oversimplified, but

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2airishuman
i got no cams, so i know from zip...
...but my interpretation of (inlandandy) bar selection is that the bars need an inch? or more of flex for the antisway function to fully engage...
From your wonderful (...although...sometimes...hard to read.. ) insight on other topics, I find that difficult to believe.

You're right - Andy say, [paraphrased] "Crank the bars up! The more the better They're tested to five inches bend with no damage."

Materials have a property called the spring constant. For simplicity, let's say 1000 pound bars have a spring constant of 200 pounds per inch deflection. Bend the bar 1 inch and you get 200 pounds of force on the cam. Applying the same general line of reasoning, a 550 pound spring bar would have a lower spring constant on the order of 110 ppi.

Adjusting a 550 pound bar to deflect three inches would give you 330 pounds of force. The 1000 pound bar would only have to be deflected 1.65 inches to yield the same amount of force.

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Old 11-22-2006, 02:53 PM   #37
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yes, I believe you are all correct, and I mis-spoke. not "pressure", but "flex". I don't think it has to do with the load on the cams, so much, but when that spring bar is "flexed", it becomes a horizontal spring. <--> (pushing fore and aft). the "up/down" force, like in the wheelbarrow example, is only doing the weight transferrance. the right combination of pressure and flex in the bars puts the cams and saddles in an orientation that will allow the fore/aft spring action to absorb the force of the a-frame as it tries to swing out and move toward the rear of the tow vehicle. the resistance on the bars pushes the a-frame back into a straight orientation. If the spring bars don't deflect, because they either aren't tightly attached, or are just too stiff, they won't bend when forward force is applied; something will either break, or the saddles will just pop off of the cams, and you got nuthin'. Because of the shape of the cams/saddles, movement initiated by the truck allows the saddle to slide off the cam; but movement initiated by the trailer ("sway") causes the 2 to lock, resisting further movement.

that's my story, and I'm sticking to it.
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Old 11-22-2006, 03:03 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomW
From your wonderful (...although...sometimes...hard to read.. ) insight on other topics, I find that difficult to believe.

You're right - Andy say, [paraphrased] "Crank the bars up! The more the better They're tested to five inches bend with no damage."

Materials have a property called the spring constant. For simplicity, let's say 1000 pound bars have a spring constant of 200 pounds per inch deflection. Bend the bar 1 inch and you get 200 pounds of force on the cam. Applying the same general line of reasoning, a 550 pound spring bar would have a lower spring constant on the order of 110 ppi.

Adjusting a 550 pound bar to deflect three inches would give you 330 pounds of force. The 1000 pound bar would only have to be deflected 1.65 inches to yield the same amount of force.

Tom
Tom-- I agree completely but if it takes,for example 200lbs of upward lift on the end of a bars to bring the vehicles to a level attitude the difference between the large and small bar with 200 lbs of force on them is simply more deflection in the smaller bar. As I see it 200 lbs is 200 lbs no matter what size bar is being used. ----pieman
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Old 11-22-2006, 03:08 PM   #39
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Up...Down...Even

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Lewis
Tom-- I agree completely...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Lewis
...but ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Lewis
... As I see it 200 lbs is 200 lbs no matter what size bar is being used.
Yes, you are correct. That is the point I was hoping to make.

Tom
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Old 11-22-2006, 03:09 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck
yes, I believe you are all correct, and I mis-spoke. not "pressure", but "flex". I don't think it has to do with the load on the cams, so much, but when that spring bar is "flexed", it becomes a horizontal spring. <--> (pushing fore and aft). the "up/down" force, like in the wheelbarrow example, is only doing the weight transferrance. the right combination of pressure and flex in the bars puts the cams and saddles in an orientation that will allow the fore/aft spring action to absorb the force of the a-frame as it tries to swing out and move toward the rear of the tow vehicle. the resistance on the bars pushes the a-frame back into a straight orientation. If the spring bars don't deflect, because they either aren't tightly attached, or are just too stiff, they won't bend when forward force is applied; something will either break, or the saddles will just pop off of the cams, and you got nuthin'. Because of the shape of the cams/saddles, movement initiated by the truck allows the saddle to slide off the cam; but movement initiated by the trailer ("sway") causes the 2 to lock, resisting further movement.

that's my story, and I'm sticking to it.
I agree with you Geometeeee---pieman
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Old 12-02-2006, 08:51 AM   #41
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Straight line dual cam Reese

We just picked up our new 77/31 AS (Avalanche 1500 with Michelin 10 ply tires TV). I have been reading the forums and talked to Reese for recommendations. I decided to go with the dual cam straight line model#66082. I bought it from Camping World and had there tec. install it. I towed the AS for about 200 miles with nothing, kept my speed down to 55 or 60. It actually did not feel to bad but wouldn't have wanted to do anything drastic. With the new Reese setup it tows amazingly well! I don't feel any push or sway with trucks passing. It tracks great through the turns. If money was no object I would have probably gone with the HaHa. So far I am very happy. I will keep reading and looking and maybe I will end up changing but for now it seems great I can't even fathom it being any better! I also am able to open the tailgate now while hitched up. This is a big plus for me because I want to be able to carry a motorcycle or scooter in the bed. I am planning on modifying a tailgate basically cutting the top or back corners off to allow for sharp turns with the tailgate down. Anyway thanks to everyones input and info here. It's been very helpful with this new adventure!
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Old 12-02-2006, 09:01 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jacobwellcom
Someone on the Burnstream list



In both cases it was apparently sway that overwhelmed their control. Very sad. I have hardly any experience towing, but those pictures seem like a pretty strong argument for sway control (and they may have had sway control - things happen - but anything that would reduce the likelihood seems worth it). Certainly makes me think I'll be getting the rest of the parts for the Reese dual-cam hitch that's on my trailer before going on any trips with it.
This post clearly shows why folks like me (and you know others are out there too) why you SHOULD NOT TOW with the wrong T.V. That Bronco's wheelbase was WAY TOO SHORT to be towing that size Airstream or that size anything. I never saw the hitch setup, but even if this person used the proper hitching gear, including sway control, it might have only given a slight advantage IMHO given that they appear to have started with the wrong tow vehicle to start with. Looking a bit further, they had 4 people in the truck. This was nearly exactly what I saw on my way back from the summer of 04 Midwest Rally. Too much trailer for too little of a T.V. Now the one I saw didn't have sway control or weight distribution either which was simply the trifecta of stupidity. I can't say that in this case.

What I can say is that the the price of the cams, why not? I have towed with and without the bars, with and without the cams and I have to say, it was a far more comfortable exp with them, particularly in higher than normal wind conditions. If we were talking about the cost of the cams and comparing that cost to that of say a Hensly ($3000) I might have a different take, but I paid something like $200 for the cam system and it works!

I followed Inland RV's suggestion of not being overhitched and downgraded the bars so that I would get some flex. Worked great!
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