Propride Power WD engineering

[rmkrum]

Ordered a set of sensors for experimenting. From the description it looks like a basic waterproof potentiometer with three connections.

Appears to run on about 5 volts or so, output from the center pin would be in the range of 0-5VDC, an easy device to read with an Arduino processor card analog input. A little spike protection and away we go.

Initial thought is to bracket one and connect to to each front suspension upper arm to get the height of each side, and one to the rear axle where the brake proportioning valve is locate to get rear axle height. A little massaging of sensor inputs in the software and I should be able to tell where loading is going... Biggest problem will be mechanical setup, but the other pictures supplied have some ideas in them. Adjustable links for calibration, and away we go.

Appreciate the rapid responses from all with very useful information. Amazing how smart this collective group can be when the right questions get asked!

[rmkrum]

Originally Posted by jcl

2012 Tacoma parts book does not list this sensor, but it was used up until 2008, which I understand is the same chassis.

One part number reference shows as Toyota part 89407-48020

One manufacturer site: https://www.dormanproducts.com/p-72313-924-755.aspx

Will-fit versions are $27 each on Amazon. Not sure about quality.

Hit amazon for a set to play with. I'm guessing two on the front and one on rear axle could do the job. Some mechanical fiddling and then some simple software to get a feel for the range of data at rest would be the next step.

Of course the first thing I'm gonna do is take the back cover off to see what's inside (grin)

[rmkrum]

Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS

I just don't understand why its rocket science for you and not for me.

Is your set-up so close the the edge that it requires constant adjustment?

Ours is not, once its set for a given load its good to go. A once a Season trip to to the scales has been all thats needed.

But that's just me....I still ware watches I have to wind.

KISS

Bob

It's not close to the edge given proper adjustment for the loading and conditions.

Where the fun comes in is when I CHANGE the loading of the AS and the TV from one trip to another. We have not ever achieved going camping with the same or similar loading. Tends to be different each trip

We have carried radically different loads in the back of the truck, and somewhat different stuff in the AS. Tank loads also vary a bit. Passenger loading is different as well. Sometimes it is just DW, me and the pups, other times daughter has been aboard as well...

So a little fine tuning has always been necessary for ride and handling comfort. We're talking a range from typical settings of plus or minus 1/4" to 1" on the weight distribution jacks. Since it is a ProPride, sway has not been an issue, but indecisive/sloppy steering because of front axle loading being too light has been an issue. That's why this investigation to see if I can quantify the tuning independent of external infrastructure, like a CAT scale.

Ideally, the sensors and automated WD jacks can play together in some logical manner to hit the sweet spot without a lot of stop and fiddle. As Barry (bapp1236) has noted, small adjustments on WD jack height and therefore WD bar tension, are discernible in perceptible handling improvements. The ultimate would be to have a button that I push parked on level ground, that quickly senses and adjusts the system for optimum handling after hitching up, and loading passengers with a given load.

Failing that, at least the ability to adjust the WD jack height while underway would be a good first goal.

As always, with engineering, the ability to measure the input variables and look for relationships among the data is necessary to understanding the entire system when it is in motion.

And on the watches, mine uses ambient light to recharge it's batteries, and synchronizes to WWV's time signals (NIST) each night so I don't have to fuss with it or replace batteries every year. I just have to look at it to see what time it is. The time is VERY accurate (unless I'm in Hawaii, but then who cares--its 'Island Time', bro!) The actual technology behind the outward simplicity is mind-boggling if you really look at it.

I'm going for similar apparent simplicity on towing my AS, by over-killing the heck out of the technology involved in adjusting it's driving characteristics...but when have engineers ever failed to complicate the heck out of things?

[jcl]

Originally Posted by Bill M.

You are right, of course. Jack position will tell you everything you need to know. A couple of trips across a CAT scale for the initial calibration and then you can dial in weight restoration to the front.

Jack position is an interim measure, with the goal being front axle load restoration. If one can easily and remotely measure front axle height (using common sensors the manufacturers use to correct the aim of headlights and adjust air suspension) why focus on jack position? The latter will vary with loading.

[jcl]

Originally Posted by rmkrum

Ordered a set of sensors for experimenting. From the description it looks like a basic waterproof potentiometer with three connections.

Appears to run on about 5 volts or so, output from the center pin would be in the range of 0-5VDC, an easy device to read with an Arduino processor card analog input. A little spike protection and away we go.

Initial thought is to bracket one and connect to to each front suspension upper arm to get the height of each side, and one to the rear axle where the brake proportioning valve is locate to get rear axle height. A little massaging of sensor inputs in the software and I should be able to tell where loading is going... Biggest problem will be mechanical setup, but the other pictures supplied have some ideas in them. Adjustable links for calibration, and away we go.

Appreciate the rapid responses from all with very useful information. Amazing how smart this collective group can be when the right questions get asked!

Seems like a neat project.

All the ones I have seen on my vehicles use one sensor per axle. No need for left/right differentiation, unless you are going to correct for left/right weight bias (as an air suspension with individual wheel pressures might). They are usually on the RF suspension, and RR. They all have a connecting rod with a rubber bushing or Heim joint. It would be easy to have an adjustable one. Some connect to the lower control arm with a clip, and that is where I would start with the 2008 Tacoma parts book, to use the same clip.

Toyota had a rash of failures with water ingress according to web documentation. There are reportedly updated designs available, but I would watch that if you are using the cheapest Amazon ones. I know that the BMW ones I have had never had a problem. They also cost more.

Keep us informed, really interested to see how this works out.

Jeff

[jcl]

Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS

I just don't understand why its rocket science for you and not for me.

Is your set-up so close the the edge that it requires constant adjustment?

There are incremental layers to this approach, and it is interesting to me to see what can be done.

First step is to motorize the WD jacks. Not essential. Do you have a motorized tongue jack on your trailer? Newer models have electric stabilizer jacks. Why not an electric WD jack? Especially since not adjusting it sufficiently can have a negative effect on safety. Make it easy.

Next step is to measure the front axle height. It can be done with a tape measure to the wheel well arch. One can also set front wheel toe-in using a tape measure, but an electronic wheel alignment rack does a better job. You can use a tape measure to see if a parking space is big enough, or you can use onboard distance sensors that beep when you get close. No real difference to these examples, IMO, just using technology to make things easier. Measuring front axle height (and rear) has been standard on many vehicles for 20 years. Why not use those sensors?

Now, restoring front axle loading (or a percentage of it, based on one's preference/manufacturer's guidelines/etc) can be done easily, powering the WD jacks and watching the readout (or a simple green light).

Scale tickets would be used to validate the calibration of front axle height measurement and set a target, easily checked with an onboard system each day without returning to the scales.

Doing it going down the road is interesting, and probably not required for many. But it would prove out the sensitivity of the WD adjustments.

And besides all that, the whole project is just neat. But then I'm an engineer

[rmkrum]

Great. Appreciate the added data. I have a 2012 Tacoma but there may be places with holes for brackets. I’ll look under the RF side first. I grabbed three sensors to have enough in case I need both sides in front. I can see where RF might be critical to detecting passenger load.

I’m in the desert, so rain is rarely an issue...

[jcl]

Get a workshop manual for a 2008 model (online, or at the library, and make a photocopy) or get a page printout from the parts book. See if anything significant changed from 2008 to 2012. The design work has already been done, most likely. It would give you a sense of what will work with range of motion of both the sensor and the suspension arm.

[rmkrum]

Originally Posted by jcl

And besides all that, the whole project is just neat. But then I'm an engineer

And here, in all it's glory, is the real reason we all went into engineering.

https://youtu.be/Dx6HojLBsnw

[rmkrum]

Originally Posted by jcl

Get a workshop manual for a 2008 model (online, or at the library, and make a photocopy) or get a page printout from the parts book. See if anything significant changed from 2008 to 2012. The design work has already been done, most likely. It would give you a sense of what will work with range of motion of both the sensor and the suspension arm.

Yup. Planning a short subscription to their online technical data website, and will snarf all the downloads for my vehicles I can grab. I have a shiny new 3 Terabyte hard drive ready to load up...

[ROBERT CROSS]

......>>>snip "And on the watches, mine uses ambient light to recharge it's batteries, and synchronizes to WWV's time signals (NIST) each night so I don't have to fuss with it or replace batteries every year. I just have to look at it to see what time it is. The time is VERY accurate (unless I'm in Hawaii, but then who cares--its 'Island Time', bro!) The actual technology behind the outward simplicity is mind-boggling if you really look at it."


SockRayBLU...now that 'splains a lot.

We be a bit more 'old school' >>>> my round slide rule. 1946 Chronomat


Sweet Streams...

Regards,
Bob

[rmkrum]

Heh, I still have my K&E Deci-Lon log-log duplex slide rule, scabbard, and book from when I went to college in the bad ol' days...Class of 1967 graduate (the first time)

I can do retro when I need to...

[slowmover]

Beautiful watch.

Might've thought it would've been a Glycine Airman.

[ROBERT CROSS]

Originally Posted by slowmover

Beautiful watch.

Might've thought it would've been a Glycine Airman.

Nope>>>>


Bob

[rmkrum]

The current hyped-up electronic watch is a Casio Sport...all titanium for a good reason.

But the first electronic one I still have is the transparent Bulova Accutron with the tuning fork movement from the 1970's--which I can no longer get batteries for.

I have a real old 1940's one I inherited from my grandfather, but I am rough on mechanical watches, so it sits in the safe...

Gotta admire the old technology--some were good enough to navigate with if you have a good sextant and Bowditch's Practical Navigator with all the log tables in the back...and yes, I know how to do that as well--no GPS required, just accurate time, and a star chart, and current almanac....and plenty of time to do the calculations~!

[rmkrum]

Minor update, and a chagrined expression...

Ordered a set of suspension height sensors suggested by 'jcl' earlier. Reasonable price, etc. ToyotaPart website is way too proud of them...

Just found out they are coming via China Post, which means "On a slow boat from China"...

May see them in January, sigh!

Will attack in other directions--the clever stuff will have to wait for parts--will work on installs of what I have already, wiring, and manual control of the WD adjustment power jacks...should keep me out of the bars for a while.

[jcl]

Suggest an interim project. A field trip to a local autowrecker with a 2004-2008 Tacoma, preferably with left side damage. Get the brackets and mounting hardware if possible. Use them with your new sensors when they arrive.

Jeff

[rmkrum]

Great idea. If I also find the right wiring harness parts that would make for a more sanitary job as well...connectors are real hard to find in the parts books.

I also need to crawl under the '12 Taco and see if anything like harness connector, sensor, etc. is already in there...or hanging around in the area. Might get lucky.

[jcl]

Good point on the electrical connections.

Not sure which site you used to purchase your sensors, but this one (for the same part number) lists all the vehicles that used it, with years and models. A good starting point for a look in local wreckers.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Head....fe23e0fbXC9K1

A very similar sensor is used on the Camry and Avalon up to 2012-2014 models

And if none of that works, this following link is for a sensor for the VW Golf, Beetle, Passat, and Audi TT, A3, A4, A6, and A8. Just tell people it came off an A8. Reason that I included this one is that it includes the bracket, link arm, and clip. Note this one has a six pin connector. Presumably three of those would be the potentiometer, with others used for diagnostics.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Orig...723563892.html

Or, just go to a wrecker with an on line listing for the whole kit. This one has the VW sensor, mounting brackets, link arm, and wiring harness end. All for $19, and it is in the US.

http://www.justparts.com/Auto_Parts/...Level%2bSensor

Jeff

[rmkrum]

Just crawled under front to have a look. Seem to be a few unused holes in fender area and a bolt on upper A arm that holds anti-skid sensor wire. Rear will take more crawling.

Front looks possible. Rear not sure yet. Will do a junkyard run eventually