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Airstream01 · 11-23-2009, 11:42 PM

Ok, so I should probably confess <donning flame suit> I currently do not have any sort of sway control or wd hitch to use with my 'Stream

There, I said it. So far I've towed her over 2500 miles with absolutely no issues, up and down fairly significant grades, passing semis, etc. No problems.

I've towed a LOT of heavy trailers in my day, most without trailer brakes, and none with any sort of sway or wd devices and never, ever had any problems. Never any close calls, no sway, no nothing. But I've always towed with big @$$ trucks and drove at reasonable speeds. Same goes with my current truck, it outweighs the 'Stream by about 1k lbs. With the diesel and the 400lb bumper on the front the the ole F250, I don't even think WD is necessary in my case.

However, after reading more than a couple threads on this very forum about folks rolling their TV and 'Stream due to severe sway, I'm going to bite the bullet and get a WD and sway control system. Granted, in my opinion, all the folks who crashed that I've read about, were towing too much 'Stream with too little truck, but I digress.

So, tell me your opinions on the two hitches mentioned in the title of this thread. I'm getting one or the other.

Here are my concerns:
1. I don't like the cost of the ProPride, but I firmly believe you (usually)get what you pay for. I have the cash, so that is not the main issue
2. The weight of the ProPride is, best as I can tell, in the neighborhood of 250 lbs. That is a lot of extra tongue weight, but I'm assuming the a-frame of the 'Stream can handle the extra mass and inertia it brings with it (whether or not it is distributed).
3. I don't want any issues on slippery surfaces which is why I've excluded any friction type sway control. How is the ProPride on slick roads?
4. Reese, from all I've read, can be extremely difficult to set up correctly. Not good.
5. I like overkill, but I don't like throwing money away either. If I had a 34'er, I'd definitely go ProPride, but I only have a 25'er with a big truck. Is the ProPride stupid overkill? A waste of money?

Thats all for now. Let me hear your thoughts.

ROBERTSUNRUS · 11-23-2009, 11:57 PM

Hi, you may have opened a can of worms. I think the Propride is probably a great hitch and many swear by the Reese too. I'm very happy with my Equal-i-zer, but you didn't ask about that so I will say no more. The weight of the hitch might be more of a concern to me than the price. I also think the high dollar hitches are more suited for the longer than 25' trailers and those who feel a bit insecure while towing. [driver ability] So far it seems to me that you don't fit into this category. Some feel that these hitches are magic for under sized tow vehicles; And for that I say no hitch will make up for that.

Airstream01 · 11-24-2009, 12:26 AM

Robert, the weight of the ProPride is one of my major issues. That is a lot of extra mass on the tongue. That would put me over 1000lbs of tongue weight. Also, about the Equalizer, it is my understanding it is a friction type sway control and that those are not good in slick conditions. I am going to be doing a cross country trip in late December and I do not want any issues if I encounter snow covered roads. Someone school me if I'm all dorked up.

I should probably say I'm leaning towards the Reese Straight line but haven't made a firm decision yet.

Foiled Again · 11-24-2009, 12:31 AM

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f464...p-51958-2.html

Larry has towed about everything... He's all about sensible towing.

Paula

2airishuman · 11-24-2009, 12:49 AM

'01

a few quick thoughts...

and it's no secret what i favor for relaxed, stable towing.
__________

the R/dual cam IS a friction based device.

the friction is IN the cams/notches but the primary functions are still based on friction between 2 metal surfaces.

discussed many places, here is one...

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f238...ice-47188.html

and many folks like this product a lot.

there are several threads dealing with setup and selection and nuances of the strait line/dual cam.
__________

the pp is ~220 lbs. compare that to the reese weigh and consider the NET difference as the 'extra.

but that weight doesn't pose any hazard to the A frame in my experience.

i've used a haha for several years and it weighs more than the pp.

while the hitch is semi permanently installed ON the A frame the load is actually carried by the TV once the w/d bars are tensioned.

many (non owners) suggest that LONGER trailers might 'need' these fancy hitches and shorter ones don't.

but the fact is, multi axle trailers track BETTER than singles, and triple axles even more so.

i know many folks using the haha or pp with ALL sizes and axle configurations...

the performance is excellent with them all, even bambis.
____________

it's impossible to sort out why some of the disaster/wrecks happen.

and i would never suggest that this gadget PREVENTS those accidents.

but the trailer CONTROL is uncanny and the experience while towing relaxed in ALL conditions.

every tow rig combo relies on roadway traction/grip for control, no hitch apparatus alters that basic concept.

towing IN snow is a challenge. i've crossed mountain passes several times with fresh snow or patches of hard pack...

but would NEVER intentionally set out to tow into heavy snow or ice conditions, the oem trailer tires are NOT designed for this.

it's much safer and wiser to wait out the snow, let the ice melt or take an alternate route.

even with a big truck and popular hitch bad things can happen...

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f238...one-27195.html
__________

we've discussed the MERITS of the haha/pp in many threads, i'm sure u can find those.

i don't know ANYONE who owns or uses the expensive hitches that thinks of it as a "waste of money", no one.
__________

used versions of the older orange model are often 4sale on ebay or other sites...

i am very satisfied with the pp now and suspect u would be as well.

it's best not to make EITHER choice as an impulse purchase.

proper w/d is imo also important, which means weighing things and adjusting the w/d bars based on axle loads.

good luck deciding and safe travels

cheers
2air'

Airstream01 · 11-24-2009, 01:13 AM

2air, didn't know that about the Reese cams. That muddys the water a bit.

I should say that so far, the 'Stream is the best towing trailer I have ever towed and if I hadn't found this forum, I would probably never buy a WD and sway control system. But after seeing the carnage on these very webpages, it makes me think maybe I've just dodged a lot of bullets. Probably not, but you never know.

I also want my friends and family, who may not have as much towing experience as I do, to be able to tow without me worrying about them crashing my trailer due to sway. After I broke my leg a couple weeks ago at a race, I had to have someone I barely even know drive my 'Stream back to my house. He knew what he was doing, and even commented to me at the hospital that it was the smoothest tow he's ever experienced. But if he hadn't been there, my girl would've had to tow it, and that scared me a little bit. Not because she's a bad driver, but because she has no towing experience.

Maybe I should just get the PP

Airstream01 · 11-24-2009, 01:18 AM

2air, I don't intend to seek out snow covered roads, but I don't want a hitch exacerbating the problem if I do find myself in that predicament.

2airishuman · 11-24-2009, 01:21 AM

the multiple driver/inexperienced driver issue...

that comes up form time to time...

there was a cyclist/doc here who posted last year about his wife/gf towing with one of these and HOW easy it was for her.

most of the time the 'other driver' scenario is an older couple with both wanting relaxed control.

but there are a LOT of issues with the random/occasional driver...

speed, braking distance, awareness of LENGHT and width, clearance on turns, and so on.

so IF u r expecting others to tow consider these things too.

testimonials are always a bit suspect or best taken with salt...

but many guys report about how their gals will finally drive once they've added this fancy/expensive/heavy hitch.
_________

in my experience the pp/haha do NOT exacerbate the issues of snow or ice or rain...

so as long as the tv tires are capable and sudden braking is avoided, moving through PATCHES of hard pack is easy.

and 'chain up' requirements in many western states keep us from going WHERE we should not with a trailer.

cheers
2air'

Sean Woodruff · 11-24-2009, 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Airstream01

2. The weight of the ProPride is, best as I can tell, in the neighborhood of 250 lbs.

The weight is 200 lbs. (with 1400# spring bars) when you put each individual part on a scale.

-

SteveH · 11-24-2009, 08:44 AM

Airstream01,

I tow a 25' also, but with a smaller 1/2 ton truck. I recently switched from a Reese Dual Cam hitch (the new version), to a ProPride hitch. I've towed lots of different travel trailers thru the years and used several different hitches.

My experience with the Reese was it was a pretty good hitch, but a real PITA to get adjusted correctly and if it's not adjusted absolutely corectly, the anti-sway function just does not work. I had the earlier version of the Reese years ago, it worked better because it was much easier to adjust. They both use friction along with increased lift on the bars to control sway. Here is how if finally figured out how to adjust it after a year of using it: http://www.airforums.com/forums/f464...ams-52579.html

The ProPride on the other hand, is a totally different devise. By design, it totally eliminates sway. I contemplated spending the money for a long time, researched how it worked, and talked to lots of Hensley and ProPride users before I "bit the bullet". At this point, even though I've only towed with the hitch a little bit, I am VERY HAPPY with it's performance.

One other thing...the Reese sway control depends on weight on the bars for sway control, and if there is not much weight on the bars, the sway control does not work. The ProPride and the Hensley, however, do not depend on weight on the bars to control sway.

Hope my experince is of some help to you.

Steve

Airstream01 · 11-24-2009, 09:46 AM

Thanks for all the comments thus far. Sean, I may be calling you in the next few days.

What is the recommended bar size for my application (2001 Ford F250 SuperDuty 4x4 extended cab, short bed diesel with a ginormous (and heavy) front bumper)?

Based on Inland Andy's recommendations, I was going to go with 600lb bars if I got a Reese, and planned to do the same if I got a ProPride. I want a soft ride (which I have now).

reddogfox · 11-24-2009, 10:25 AM

2 Air
If your claim that all sway control with a Reese Dual Cam hitch is caused by friction then Reese's
statement that the Dual Cam Sway Control is fully automatic and self centering would be false. A friction system would only resist movement, a system that self centers would only occur when there was differential pressure on the trunnion bars.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Airstream01

4. Reese, from all I've read, can be extremely difficult to set up correctly. Not good.

Thats all for now. Let me hear your thoughts.

Airstream01
The installation instructions are not that complicated. I watched Randy the RV Tech at Weekley RV install the hitch on my trailer. He first centered the Cam Arm Yoke so that there was an equal amount of threads on either side of the yoke. Then following the instructions he measured and marked the position of the frame plates and snap-up brackets, before mounting the components he double check the measurements. We have towed our trailer about 19,000 miles with no problems or complaints about hitch. How you spend your money is your business, but for our $3000.00 we bought a full awning package, a solar package, a $600 dollar hitch installed, with money left over to buy other accessories.

2airishuman · 11-24-2009, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Airstream01

...What is the recommended bar size for my application...

bar size/rating is based on TONGUE mass.

get the 1000 lbs.

the primary features of the pp do NOT rely on w/d bar tension,

so they can be tighten as LITTLE as needed to adjust axle load.

IF you ever opt for a larger/heavier trailer having the extra capacity IN the bars is useful...

there is really no down side to the extra bar rating for THIS style hitch.
__________

the dual cam relies on BAR FLEX/bending to engage the cam system.

using lighter bars provides for that flex but MAY NOT redistribute adequate loads...

it's really not comparable to how a pp is set up.

these 2 systems function SO DIFFERENTLY that comparisons are confusing for most users of 1 or the other.

cheers
2air'

Sean Woodruff · 11-24-2009, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Airstream01

Thanks for all the comments thus far. Sean, I may be calling you in the next few days.

What is the recommended bar size for my application (2001 Ford F250 SuperDuty 4x4 extended cab, short bed diesel with a ginormous (and heavy) front bumper)?

Based on Inland Andy's recommendations, I was going to go with 600lb bars if I got a Reese, and planned to do the same if I got a ProPride. I want a soft ride (which I have now).

I would normally recommend a 3P-1000 for a 25' Airstream. Andy's recommendations are based on what he knows to be true with the Reese systems he sells and that does not hold true for either a ProPride or an Arrow.

However, considering your HEAVY front bumper you could use the 3P-800.

Sean Woodruff · 11-24-2009, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by reddogfox

Reese's statement that the Dual Cam Sway Control is fully automatic and self centering would be false.

This sentence about Reese's statement is true.

How does a hitch "self center?" The force to center it has to come from somewhere other than the hitch. That makes it something OTHER THAN "self centering."

Airstream01 · 11-24-2009, 01:08 PM

Off the wall question: I'd like to get either hitch prior to my trip to the Mothership on 7 Dec. I'm having some very minor warranty work done, getting it leak tested, and doing the tour. Will I have to completely remove the 3P hitch so they can move the trailer wherever they need it (I think they use a tractor) or can I leave it attached?

I'm strongly leaning towards the 3P hitch now.

2airishuman · 11-24-2009, 01:12 PM

you can LEAVE it attached...

the factory service center has a special adapter for haha/ppz

so they can tow the trailer into the service bay with the hitch installed.

they service a LOT of trailers with these gizmos.
___________

the only reason to remove the contraption

would be for service/repairs DIRECTLY to the A frame or coupler.

cheers
2air'

Ben4762 · 11-24-2009, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Airstream01

I like overkill, but I don't like throwing money away either. If I had a 34'er, I'd definitely go ProPride, but I only have a 25'er with a big truck. Is the ProPride stupid overkill? A waste of money?

I think it's overkill and a waste of money. Like you said "I only have a 25'er with a big truck." Why would you spend $2500 on an anti-sway hitch if you don't have sway?

Sean Woodruff · 11-24-2009, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben4762

I think it's overkill and a waste of money. Like you said "I only have a 25'er with a big truck." Why would you spend $2500 on an anti-sway hitch if you don't have sway?

I like answering the overkill question with questions... there are a lot that can be asked.

Why would you spend money on an Airstream when you can camp in a tent?

Or, even a SOB square box, of the same length, at a much more reasonable price?

Why buy trailer insurance when you have no trailer damage?

I could go on but you probably get the point.

There has NEVER been a sway induced accident with either a ProPride or a HAHA. The same CANNOT be said for ANY OTHER BRAND OF HITCH IN THE WORLD.

The only thing the pivot point projection design has "overkilled" is the possibility of a sway induced accident.

Ben4762 · 11-24-2009, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sean Woodruff

I like answering the overkill question with questions... there are a lot that can be asked.

Why would you spend money on an Airstream when you can camp in a tent?

Or, even a SOB square box, of the same length, at a much more reasonable price?

Why buy trailer insurance when you have no trailer damage?

I could go on but you probably get the point.

There has NEVER been a sway induced accident with either a ProPride or a HAHA. The same CANNOT be said for ANY OTHER BRAND OF HITCH IN THE WORLD.

The only thing the pivot point projection design has "overkilled" is the possibility of a sway induced accident.

If I was looking to buy a new car I would not go to the car salesman that sold them and ask for his opinion. I think you probably get my point. I do own a Hensley Arrow and tow a 32' trailer.