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Old 11-12-2013, 10:02 PM   #99
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Indeed none of us ever quit learning and it often costs us something. Enjoy your travels and continue to seek help anytime. This is surely not a big deal.
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Old 11-13-2013, 06:04 AM   #100
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Sorry Jim, my inability to communicate well. The sarcasm wasn't directed to you. The "two conspiracies" suggestion was making light of those who are trying to inflate the bending of a hitch bar assembly from backing too sharply, while possibly limiting the ProPride's movement with improperly positioned safety chains. When you posted the Hensley hitch damage from something similar, I snickered to myself "two conspiracies", and made a dumb reply.
Doug,
I understood exactly and join you in your assessment. I think Bob just had his spoon out. Jim
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Old 11-13-2013, 06:17 AM   #101
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Doug,
I understood exactly and join you in your assessment. I think Bob just had his spoon out. Jim
Me?
I use a fork for my sarcasm.

"There is a definite banal lack of appreciation for the subtleties of the absurd around here lately."
RLC

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Old 11-13-2013, 08:25 AM   #102
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Me? I use a fork for my sarcasm. "There is a definite banal lack of appreciation for the subtleties of the absurd around here lately." RLC Bob
Good one. Your chuckles have skipped off the lake, bounced up against the escarpment, and settled on Hamilton Harbour. I appreciate them. They are contagious and liven up the day. Jim
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Old 11-13-2013, 08:33 AM   #103
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To the OP, if it turns out there is a fair amount of expense involved in fixing this, if you are person that believes using your insurance policy to cover things like this, I would imagine that in fact the trailer insurance would cover this, minus of course whatever your deductable is.
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Old 11-13-2013, 10:24 AM   #104
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To the OP, if it turns out there is a fair amount of expense involved in fixing this, if you are person that believes using your insurance policy to cover things like this, I would imagine that in fact the trailer insurance would cover this, minus of course whatever your deductable is.
GMW - Thank you for bringing up the insurance issue. Now I can hijack this thread. As someone who recently filed her first ever insurance claims (rolled the tow vehicle and Airstream) and had a rather long thread following that accident I want to make two only semi-related comments:

First - INSURANCE - I have a couple of very good friends who work in the industry. I've also seen this happen to other people.... You have an accident and call the claims department only to find your damages are barely over your deductible... do that two or three times and even if you NEVER FORMALLY FILE A CLAIM your rates go UP! Your rates also go up if you file and collect on two or more small claims. Insurance is best used for catastrophic claims that you cannot cover out of pocket. My rates didn't go up because I'd never had a claim until now. (and I'm going to be super careful to avoid getting another one). Insurance companies raise rates because they can... because handling small claims has the same overhead as major ones... and because the person who keeps reporting accidents is probably NOT learning to change her/his behavior as a result of the "oops" moments. I know people who drive like speed demons and tailgate even after they've been in wrecks. I also noticed that after I got my first pair of glasses I tended to give other vehicles more room... hmm.

SECONDLY - the damnedest stuff can happen in a single second regardless of being a "grizzled veteran" (seven years successful towing then I'm in a ditch saying naughty words, with NO idea what really happened) and STILL no idea what really happened.

OH and by the way I do have two new pieces of interesting info about my wreck that I didn't know at the time. They HAD to flatbed my trailer to the lot - and about two months after my wreck there was a post here where a member had hit a pothole or big rock while turning at low speed and worried that the axle might have been damaged as was the rim. Over two years ago, I bent a rim without even knowing it until the tire lost pressure - a week later when I was camped! I never considered that the axle could have been misaligned or damaged and never had it inspected - so again I don't know that I WAS damaged, but now...
  • all four tires had air and they still had to flatbed it. Why?
  • looking at pictures post accident one wheel was up in the wheel well more than the other... same one where I bent the rim!
  • damaged shock? damaged axle? something that finally gave way after being weakened by the rim bending incident?
The original incident - got gas, pulled out of the station, heard a "whack scrape" and felt the trailer buck a bit. Pulled off ASAP and noticed a decorative boulder about 10 inches high near the driveway. A hearty "OH SPIT" and a quick relieved inspection showed I'd scraped my stairs against the boulder letting them be cockeyed. BIG WHEW... had visions of a whole side panel and wheel well being toast. A week later the tire went flat and I couldn't get it to air up. Finally took it off and saw the inside of the rim was bent. Got a new rim and had the old one repaired to be a spare and went on with my happy little life. NEVER OCCURRED to me to have the shock, the alignment or the axle inspected for damage. But imagine a hairline stress damage in the axle or the shock or the shock bracket... and add 5000 miles of towing.

Real cause uncovered? NO. Just have another potential "cause" - still don't know and since poor old "Foiled" is now probably packaging your favorite beers will never know for sure. Cause and effect is NOT always that simple. If your pencil lead breaks, you're probably putting too much pressure on it... but the lead itself MIGHT be defective or you might have a number 1 lead pencil accidentally mislabeled as a number 2.

NOW back to the real topic - bending a hitch. On my first trip out in 2005, I pulled into my Aunt Martha's driveway and on my way out had to carefully back the trailer at fairly sharp angle to get headed out to the road. I didn't know or didn't know why other than the noise factor, why I should loosen the anti-sway bar on my Reese hitch. I carefully avoided trees and took two or three back and forwards to get situated and leave. Heard the anti-sway bar groaning and the next day saw that the trunnion itself had BENT upward about 30 degrees where the bar connected to the small ball! Two miles per hour and backing at a sharp angle BENT THE FREAKING HITCH? Cast iron bends... A LOT. Remember the anti sway bar was tightened by HAND by a woman in her mid 50's!!! Why didn't the BAR bend or break or just come loose? Well probably it compressed to it's max then the trunnion bent.

I was astounded when I saw the damage - and shocked when a local commercial trailer company sent a guy with a sledge hammer out to the parking lot to "re-align" it for me. Five or six whacks and the bend - unbent! I was the one who ordered a new trunnion because I didn't think one could be bent that badly without internal damage. Never mentioned it to anyone because it was such a dumb-ass newbie thing to do.

Some personalities are very organized, logical, cautious... and make great engineers. I'm not stupid, but I do tend to learn some things by experience - or as the critics say "by mistake". And even the engineers make mistakes - we've all seen videos of "galloping Gertie" the suspension bridge that changed bridge design when it failed.

Judgement is GOOD... Judgmental, not so much.

I love this forum because we ARE all trying to help each other stay in a state of NON-recovery from our Aluminitis, let's try to keep the HELPFUL in the forefront and be a little more aware that curiosity poorly expressed comes across as snarky or mean-spirited even when intentions are good.

(signed) Been there, done that, got the T-shirt and the damage!
(or) Yes I was born at night... but not Last Night.
(or) Katherine of Arrogance
(or) Yes, I am getting delusions of adequacy.
(or) EVERYONE is ignorant... just on different subjects

Love All y'all, Paula
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Old 11-13-2013, 10:50 AM   #105
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Nice writeup, Paula!
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Old 11-13-2013, 12:08 PM   #106
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I'd like to nominate Paula's post as "Post of the Year."
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Old 11-13-2013, 01:43 PM   #107
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Well you can bend any hitch into a pretzel on sharp turns with safety chains that are too short or misrouted. Even one with no anti-sway or wd features.

That the stinger bent so far without any of the welds breaking, supports, in my mind, the assertion that current production stingers do not have the weld problem that led to the broken stinger (photo upthread and also discussed elsewhere).

Having towed with the PP hitch for four years now I will observe that the limited hitch angle while backing is probably the largest operational nuisance. The need for manual handling of the comparatively heavy stinger would be the runner up with 3rd place going to the hassle inherent in moving the trailer with non-receiver equipment (tractor, skid loader, etc). HA is no better on any of these.

Nothing to see here, move along...
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Old 11-13-2013, 08:52 PM   #108
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I love this forum because we ARE all trying to help each other stay in a state of NON-recovery from our Aluminitis, let's try to keep the HELPFUL in the forefront and be a little more aware that curiosity poorly expressed comes across as snarky or mean-spirited even when intentions are good.
The only thing I would add to this is that it is probably 10X more likely to "come across as snarky or mean-spirited" in written communication then when talking in person.

Without tone of voice and body language it's much easier to take things the wrong way.
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Old 11-14-2013, 08:55 AM   #109
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The only thing I would add to this is that it is probably 10X more likely to "come across as snarky or mean-spirited" in written communication then when talking in person.

Without tone of voice and body language it's much easier to take things the wrong way.
Well, yeah, but there's also a factor of people saying things here (or on Facebook, or in comment sections of news sites, or...) that they'd never say in real life. One only needs to look upthread for a couple examples of things you probably wouldn't hear someone say if we were all sitting around the campfire.
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Old 11-14-2013, 10:50 AM   #110
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I am not sure, on the relatively long wheelbase of the Tundra, that you can turn sharp enough to reach the stop angle of the hitch head assembly. (85* I think on a PP)
I think that bind could only occur upon backing very sharply.---
Rich, I think that is addressed very well in this post by Steve Rankin.

I believe the Hensley Arrow and the PP have the same 4-bar linkage dimensions, so I assume the backing angle limitation would be the same for both hitches.

As I mentioned in a previous post, all PP users should be aware that they can reach the angular limit of their hitch before there is contact between TV and TT.

Ron
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Old 11-14-2013, 10:57 AM   #111
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Hi Ron, I'm not sure if you are agreeing with me or not...or if I was not clear. I mean that I don't believe it is possible to reach the max rotation of the HA or PP WHILE TRAVELING FORWARD due to wheelbase and TV turning radius limitations. You certainly can get there while backing.
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Old 11-14-2013, 11:04 AM   #112
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Hi Ron, I'm not sure if you are agreeing with me or not...or if I was not clear. I mean that I don't believe it is possible to reach the max rotation of the HA or PP WHILE TRAVELING FORWARD due to wheelbase and TV turning radius limitations. You certainly can get there while backing.

You can get there while backing with any hitch. Backing at a severe angle is not a hitch issue. With a conventional hitch the crunching of metal is in a different location.

For anyone who wondered what the "ripple" in an earlier post may have been you can actually zoom in and see the paint on the chain. I know there are quite a few people who do not believe the chain is strong enough to cause any damage but here is some more evidence for the judge.





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