Official? Blue Ox Sway Pro Hitch Thread, or, The Least Antagonistic Thread Ever

[franklyfrank]

Originally Posted by franklyfrank

Whatever you do do not go too heavy on the bars. It's counter productive. The closest to your .

To complete: I would suggest to use bars closest to your tongue weight after having the WD dialed in. I weighed my TV only loaded ready to go on the trip. Than I hitch up the Trailer, set the WD and reweigh the axles. With the WD set I transfer about 240 # off the rear axle of the TV. So in my case I found the 800# bars giving me the best ride and overall performance of the BO.

[AWCHIEF]

Originally Posted by NWRVR

As I recall the OP who got hit was unlatching the chain and the tongue bracket popped off hitting him in the head. The original installer must not have sufficiently tightened the bracket bolts and the tongue and TV must not have been elevated sufficiently to take the tension off the chains for it to release that kind of energy. I have periodically checked my bracket bolts and they remain tight. Also, BOSP makes brackets that bolt through the tongue. I don't know if it is a different bracket or just different mounting bolts.

That was me, I have the scar to prove it. It only took once to make me a believer in preventive maintenance on those pesky brackets. I check them for tightness before every hookup. As someone's assertion that it is common sense to lift the TV so there is no tension on the bars. I disagree. I had no reason to know or even assume that when I first got the BO. I learned it the hard way and will never forget that lesson. I rarely even require a tool to hook up or unhook now that I know the proper procedures.

[NWRVR]

Michael, lifting the tongue and TV to load and unload the chains is in the manual but not well noted as I also had quite the surprise the first few times with the wrench nearly jerking my arm off. After learning the trick I too can accomplish the procedure nearly without a wrench but still show it respect with a breaker bar and socket instead of that dangerous little wrench they supply!

Steve

[PKI]

Originally Posted by NWRVR

I believe that is for the AS tongue weight. The hitch, ball assembly and sway jewelry (except for the brackets bolted to the tongue) is on the TV, not the AS tongue. AS specs don't know what I have on my TV or what my TV is rated for, therefore, can't limit what I put on the hitch in addition to the AS tongue.

Understand your thought process, but the effect of weight is force. Gravity induced force and spring induced force are similar. Therefore the downward spring force from the WDH adds a point force on the A-frame. More force than is necessary is not a good thing.

Suspect that a prior comment which suggested the AS 1000# spec might be out of date is possibly valid making the 1000# cut off a questionable concern.

However, the point of the post was that considering a lighter weight bar might be worth a look. The extra weight could be from several gear load sources or might well not balance forward at all.

Thanks for clarifying the weight loading specifics. Wonder if the AS engineers included a WDH spring bar in their 1000# calculations when they developed the specifications. Pat

[NWRVR]

Originally Posted by PKI

Understand your thought process, but the effect of weight is force. Gravity induced force and spring induced force are similar. Therefore the downward spring force from the WDH adds a point force on the A-frame. More force than is necessary is not a good thing.

Suspect that a prior comment which suggested the AS 1000# spec might be out of date is possibly valid making the 1000# cut off a questionable concern.

However, the point of the post was that considering a lighter weight bar might be worth a look. The extra weight could be from several gear load sources or might well not balance forward at all.

Thanks for clarifying the weight loading specifics. Wonder if the AS engineers included a WDH spring bar in their 1000# calculations when they developed the specifications. Pat

Pat, I was was referring to adding the weight of the BOSP to the AS tongue as not relevant to the 1K AS limit for tongue weight. I agree, the load on the spring bars adds to the AS tongue weight. AS must have some concern for frame flex to have a 1K limit and remains in their current manuals.
Steve

[Plan-B]

Originally Posted by Alumitater

Gents: am in the process of purchasing a Blue Ox and have heard if your truck is equipped with anti-sway (as is my 2016 F-250) you should turn it off when using the Blue Ox as they tend to work against each other. Have you "experienced" Blue Ox users heard that? Thanks in advance.

I too have this question on my 2016 Ram 2500. My Airstream dealer started carrying the BlueOx SwayPro. He had nothing but great things to say. It sounds so great I thought it worth the try. But, he told me of a big caviat/warning. He said I 'MUST' disable the trucks's electronic trailer sway control system. If I do not the truck's elctronic sway control will be fooled by the mechanics of the SwayPro and the Ram will deliver un-needed brake signals to the Airstream and burn the brakes up in short order. He gave me examples of this issue they have had to resolve for customers. He noted a Ford F-150 that they installed recently and the customer fried the brakes on his new Airstream in less than 150 miles forgetting to turn the truck's sway control off. I am not exaggerating what he has told me.

My Ram's electronic trailer control system is integrated into the truck's overall stability management system. The only way to turn off the electronic trailer sway control is to turn off the overall trucks stability magement. If this is so, I might as well drive around with my seat belts off too.

Help, does my dealer know what he is talking about??? I know this dealer well, they know their business but maybe not so on BlueOx.

PS: I had a 2011 Ford F-250 prior to my Ram 2500. I would have had to do the same to f-250 to disengage the truck's trailer sway control, that is to turn off all the F-250's electronic stability capability.

[Overloaded]

I read this thread just recently myself. So I emailed Blue Ox, they did say that you must disable the sway control system in Fords. You might want to email them for Dodge.
Now my '16 Ford F250 you can disable just the sway control, without affecting the stability control. Might want to check your owners manual again to be sure.

[Plan-B]

Originally Posted by Overloaded

I read this thread just recently myself. So I emailed Blue Ox, they did say that you must disable the sway control system in Fords. You might want to email them for Dodge.
Now my '16 Ford F250 you can disable just the sway control, without affecting the stability control. Might want to check your owners manual again to be sure.

Good adivce on emailing BlueOx. I can not find anywhere in the 900 page plus Ram manual and the 350 page plus (luckily I have e-versions to search) diesel supplement manual anywhere that I can selectively and only turn off the truck's sway control. It appears all or nothing. One exception is it appears if you select 'electric over hydraulic ' on the integrated brake controller, it disables the auto sway control. But, that does not help me.

The dealer said BlueOx needs to put a giant sticker on their hitch warning customers about the effects that can happen if automatic sway control is not disabled. Hopefully some Ram owners can pitch in on what they have learned. When BlueOx answers my email I will get this update back into this post.

[Overloaded]

Yes I even mentioned in my email to them they should include sway control info. At the very least make a note of it on the web site. They didn't say anything about adding info to web site or manual.

[Longboard6]

The comment on having the hitch up slightly at the ball may work for some but I found I was constantly dragging the bars on even slight dips with my setup level. With boondocking on agenda this year, I am swapping out.

[Alumitater]

Originally Posted by Alumitater

Gents: am in the process of purchasing a Blue Ox and have heard if your truck is equipped with anti-sway (as is my 2016 F-250) you should turn it off when using the Blue Ox as they tend to work against each other. Have you "experienced" Blue Ox users heard that? Thanks in advance.

Thanks to all who have responded to my initial query on this issue. My local AS dealer also confirms this recommendation. I have not seen the BO installation or owners manual information as have not picked mine up yet, but certainly agree this should be conveyed to new or potential owners. Again, the BO tech I initially spoke with mentioned it right away when I identified my TV as a Ford, so much appreciate that. Certainly important information to share.

[franklyfrank]

Originally Posted by Plan-B

I too have this question on my 2016 Ram 2500. My Airstream dealer started carrying the BlueOx SwayPro. He had nothing but great things to say. It sounds so great I thought it worth the try. But, he told me of a big caviat/warning. He said I 'MUST' disable the trucks's electronic trailer sway control system. If I do not the truck's elctronic sway control will be fooled by the mechanics of the SwayPro and the Ram will deliver un-needed brake signals to the Airstream and burn the brakes up in short order. He gave me examples of this issue they have had to resolve for customers. He noted a Ford F-150 that they installed recently and the customer fried the brakes on his new Airstream in less than 150 miles forgetting to turn the truck's sway control off. I am not exaggerating what he has told me.

My Ram's electronic trailer control system is integrated into the truck's overall stability management system. The only way to turn off the electronic trailer sway control is to turn off the overall trucks stability magement. If this is so, I might as well drive around with my seat belts off too.

Help, does my dealer know what he is talking about??? I know this dealer well, they know their business but maybe not so on BlueOx.

PS: I had a 2011 Ford F-250 prior to my Ram 2500. I would have had to do the same to f-250 to disengage the truck's trailer sway control, that is to turn off all the F-250's electronic stability capability.

I was advised to turn of the sway control on my 2012 F-150 by the BO salesman when they installed my BO hitch. However I many times forget to do it because it needs to be done every time you restart the truck. I am happy to report also that none of the Calamity takes place as described above. Matter of fact I can't tell the difference even though the BO sway control works fine. I can tell as I am being passed by semis. No sway, nothing.

[phann]

So far we've put about 2000 miles on our 2016 Classic and Ram 2500 equipped with Blue Ox WD. The BO has done well preventing sway, and the Ram's automatic sway control has never kicked in.

[khollister]

Originally Posted by Plan-B

The dealer said BlueOx needs to put a giant sticker on their hitch warning customers about the effects that can happen if automatic sway control is not disabled. Hopefully some Ram owners can pitch in on what they have learned. When BlueOx answers my email I will get this update back into this post.

I have a 2016 Ram 2500 diesel. I have never noticed the ECS/TSC kicking in, but I will try setting the ECS to "Partially Off" the next time I tow and see if the mileage changes at all. According to the manual, If you momentarily press the ECS button, it is in partially off mode (the yellow idiot light will stay lit) and the TSC is disabled along with the ECS having higher thresholds of wheel slip before the systems kicks in. The ECS is only completely disabled if you hold in the button for several seconds and a chime sounds. And that mode is disabled at higher speeds.

I suspect this is a non-issue (at least on the RAM) based on my observations but it will be an interesting experiment when I tow our FC north at the end of the month. My general observation is that the traction control in the Ram is not nearly as quick to cut in as on my Toyota Prius, and even when I felt a bit of a push when something really big and fast blew by me, I never felt the ECS do anything.

[Plan-B]

Originally Posted by Overloaded

I read this thread just recently myself. So I emailed Blue Ox, they did say that you must disable the sway control system in Fords. You might want to email them for Dodge.
Now my '16 Ford F250 you can disable just the sway control, without affecting the stability control. Might want to check your owners manual again to be sure.

Below I have copied BlueOx's response concerning the need to disable Ram trucks 'trailer sway control'. Bottom line, they say it needs to be off:

BlueOx Response concerning Ram & their products:
===============================
' Thank you for contacting us. Yes you will need to turn off the sway control on the truck. Because the sway pro keeps the truck and trailer in line with each other when wind hits the combination it causes the truck sway control to activate. This applies the brakes at all corners of the truck intermittently and also can apply the trailer brakes. With disabling this feature on the truck the sway pro will do its job of preventing trailer sway and also keep the truck traveling straight. As to the reference of stability management it should consist of traction control and the sway control on the truck. With the applied tongue weight of the trailer the traction control shouldn't be an issue.'

[AWCHIEF]

I have a 2011 Jeep GC with built in sway control. One of my concerns was how would that interact with the BO. I talked too a Chrysler engineer via my local dealership right after I got the BO. I was told that the two systems operated independently of each other so no reason to attempt to disconnect the Jeep sway control. In fact it would take a major reprogramming of the EMS computer to accomplish this and that was not going to happen. After towing the combination over 10,000 miles I have never felt there was an issue. I have had several pucker factor stops and maneuvers where the Jeep system indicated operation by flashing lights on the dash. Everything continued to track true with no feelings of sway or other unusual actions.

[Jmacd]

I'm curious about the BO recommendation to the disable sway control of the Ford trucks. I tow my 2015 FC25 with an 2015 F250 CC 4x2 with a Blue Ox and 1,000 bars. Hitch weight 940Lbs. according to my Sherline scale. I've just returned from a 2,000 trip in a lot of rain and wind to Oregon. I noticed zero issues with sway or odd handling on steep descents or when passed by 18 wheelers. I've even "jinked" the truck and trailer around to see if I can feel any strange feedback from the braking system. Nothing to report. Has anyone heard the factual basis for this recommendation from Blue Ox? Jim

[No.15]

Can I get some opinions on these weights? This is 1500 lb bars with 3 link showing. I wanted to try 1k bars but I am wondering if they are to light.

This is with a 27fb (pendleton) with about half of tank fresh water both 30lb lp's full and the trailer mostly loaded with our gear.

Steer: 3320 lb
Drive: 3660 lb
Trailer: 5980 lb
Gross: 12960 lb

And this is the truck as I normally drive around. Fuel was off between 5 and 10 gallons compared to above.

Steer: 3320 lb
Drive: 2360 lb
Gross: 5700 lb

[PKI]

Please define the "three links showing" setting. My apology for asking, but I'm kind of slow on this issue. Which link is in the notch, counting from the u-bolt?

You have full return of steer axle loading with your weight distribution, so that is bang on. The question is, can you achieve the same with smaller bars? The hint is the number of links you have from the u-bolt on your current setting. If it is fewer than from the loose end, you are less likely to make the lighter bars work. If you have more links than it might be possible to go lighter.

The BO direction is to match the bars to the tongue weight. Not clear from your scale weights as to how much you have in tongue weight. With full return to the steer axle, you should have some tongue shifted to the rear trailer axle. The 1300# increase in TV weight is not all the tongue weight. Consequently, the 1500# bars may be close to what BO directs.

It was suggested by an ASer, with much more experience than I, to consider the ideal bars to be the smallest that would transfer enough weight to return the TV steer axle to original weight and have at least 2" of deflection for sway control.

The 1500lb bars have a lot of stored energy. Be very careful when adjusting. Raising the tongue jack to relieve the preload is very important and a socket with a long breaker bar will let you stay away from the hitch components when adjusting the preload. Always verify the brackets are securly attached to the frame before setting the preload on the bars.

Good luck with the fine tune. Pat

[franklyfrank]

Originally Posted by No.15

Can I get some opinions on these weights? This is 1500 lb bars with 3 link showing. I wanted to try 1k bars but I am wondering if they are to light.

This is with a 27fb (pendleton) with about half of tank fresh water both 30lb lp's full and the trailer mostly loaded with our gear.

Steer: 3320 lb
Drive: 3660 lb
Trailer: 5980 lb
Gross: 12960 lb

And this is the truck as I normally drive around. Fuel was off between 5 and 10 gallons compared to above.

Steer: 3320 lb
Drive: 2360 lb
Gross: 5700 lb

I have played this game with my BO. I had the good fortune to get an additional set of bars. My weights are fairly close to yours. I tried a set of 1,000 # bars and a set of 800# bars. The 1000# gave me a rough ride, the 800# is working perfect. Great ride, good WD and Sway Control. Most people have the tendency to go heavier than necessary and end up beating on the trailer too much. In MHO the 1000# bars would do a better job for you overall.