Visit our Popular Forums

OhScottyOh · 11-24-2008, 05:19 AM

What to do?

The front axle load is approx 3550 lbs and rear is 2850 lbs when empty and no trailer. When I hook up trailer front stays about the same and rear takes all the weight, 3520 front, 3600 rear. I use a HAHA with 1000 springs bars and the jacks to max and a 2" drop. Towing a '08 27FB Safari and at this scaling the tongue load was about 900 lbs and 5640 at the axles, I didn't unhitch to get hitch weight so it is approx. TV is '08 Tundra Crewmax 4x4. Trailer is close to level.
Thanks

SteveH · 11-24-2008, 06:08 AM

First, I would say that "close to level" for the trailer is not really good enough. I would measure the trailer front and back, adjust the bars as necessesary to get the trailer level, and then weigh the truck axles again. In my opinion, and I base this from years of towing trailers with trucks, you don't really need to heavily load the front of the truck because it is a truck, and designed to carry it's additional loads over the rear axle. However the one thing you don't want to do, is reduce the load on the front axle. You need to increase the load on the front axle, but, again in my opinion, you don't need to actually split the tongue load between the front and rear axles as you would towing with a sedan.

I'm sure I have opened a BIG can of worms here and will be vigorously disputed, but this is my opinion developed from years of towing with a truck.

Road Ruler · 11-24-2008, 06:25 AM

It is common for weak, factory receivers to flex when a WDH is used.
The result is that it is difficult to transfer weight forward to the front axles of the vehicle.
Many folks get them reinforced by a qualified towing specialists or custom hitch builders. Others simply replace the weak receiver with a Heavy Duty model.

ROBERT CROSS · 11-24-2008, 06:45 AM

I agree with Steve, get that Airstream level. Very important, you need to get the load spread evenly over both trailer axles.
I used measurements to get the haha set up for the first time. Turned out it was very close to the weight settings.
Measure the truck height through the center of each wheel to the edge of the wheelhouse when loaded for trailering, on LEVEL ground.
Hook-up and measure again with NO tension on spring bars. Adjust the bars to transfer about 1/2 the difference to the front axle. Example: If you have a 4inch drop adjust bars so 2inches are transfered to the front. When I got to the scales I only needed about three turns on the bars to get the numbers right, so slight I never noticed any difference towing.

RR has a good point. Check that receiver. It may not have the leverage to transfer the weight forward. Note the difference in the length of the mounts on the OEM and the Resse replacement on our 06 Burb.

Hope this helps......Stream Safe
Bob

OhScottyOh · 11-24-2008, 09:14 AM

Thanks to all. I will look into sugestions. It was my understanding that the hitch is part of the frame on the Toyota. I will check on that as well.

SteveH · 11-24-2008, 09:37 AM

Quote:

I use a HAHA with 1000 springs bars and the jacks to max

Scotty,

Sorry, the above part of your original post just sunk in. If you have the bars up to their max, and still not getting enough weight transfer, is it possible to angle the hitch ball back some? If so, that would give you more lift from the bars, and more weight transfer to the front of the TV.

I don't know as I'm not familiar with the Hensley hitch.

Inland RV Center, In · 11-24-2008, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scotty Oh

What to do?

The front axle load is approx 3550 lbs and rear is 2850 lbs when empty and no trailer. When I hook up trailer front stays about the same and rear takes all the weight, 3520 front, 3600 rear. I use a HAHA with 1000 springs bars and the jacks to max and a 2" drop. Towing a '08 27FB Safari and at this scaling the tongue load was about 900 lbs and 5640 at the axles, I didn't unhitch to get hitch weight so it is approx. TV is '08 Tundra Crewmax 4x4. Trailer is close to level.
Thanks

A huge part of the problem is your tow vehicle.

Your not trying to tow the Queen Mary, only an Airstream trailer that years ago was towed with larger sized cars.

Next, you are grossly over hitched as well.

The trailer, to handle properly, should be as level as possible. If not, you can ruin one of the trailer axles.

Andy

boondockdad · 11-24-2008, 10:25 AM

'05 suburban 2500. replaced OEM receiver with REESE 'Tow Beast'. Have configured both an Equal-i-zer 1200/12000 hitch, and currently using a Hensley 1400/14000. Neither hitch, before or after the receiver swap, transfered more than a positive 100lbs to steer axle (I don't have the exact numbers spreadsheet on me...
A/S is within 1/2" perfectly level, but I'm still not entirely happy with the trucks attitude... using 4" drop... going to order a ProPride adjustable stinger... maybe help?)

I think the long and short of it is: (there's a ton of posts on this topic) transfering weight on HD trucks is difficult

btw- 3520/3600 spread looks pretty good to me...

mustang · 11-24-2008, 12:45 PM

Scotty I think that looks pretty close to perfect for me.

Keep in mind you dont want to overload that front axle. I did research and I think you are pretty much at max carrying weight up there. You might wanna check the door jam sticker for front axle GVWR not the gross GVWR though.

ROBERT CROSS · 11-24-2008, 02:23 PM

Think Mustang meant front axle weight rating.

mustang · 11-24-2008, 02:48 PM

yup thats what I ment ......Thanks Robt

Inland RV Center, In · 11-24-2008, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by finalcutjoe

'05 suburban 2500. replaced OEM receiver with REESE 'Tow Beast'. Have configured both an Equal-i-zer 1200/12000 hitch, and currently using a Hensley 1400/14000. Neither hitch, before or after the receiver swap, transfered more than a positive 100lbs to steer axle (I don't have the exact numbers spreadsheet on me...
A/S is within 1/2" perfectly level, but I'm still not entirely happy with the trucks attitude... using 4" drop... going to order a ProPride adjustable stinger... maybe help?)

I think the long and short of it is: (there's a ton of posts on this topic) transfering weight on HD trucks is difficult

btw- 3520/3600 spread looks pretty good to me...

To transfer weight you must bend the bars. If the bars are not bending, you cannot transfer weight, nor will you have any sway control.

Excessive rated bars, if made to bend, will raise the front of the trailer, above level. That is not a good thing, but it would allow weight to be transfered.

Proper rated bars, if using a Reese dual cam as an example, will bend, transfer weight and provide sway control.

My statements are not in any way, referring to weight towing capacity. That's a different subject.

Friction sway controls have no idea whats going on.

Torsion sway controls, if you wish, have a brain.

I am, at this time, writing an article, that will soon be published, resolving Airstream towing myths, which will also bust some myths, prove that many hitch manufacturers formulas and charts are fabrications by their advertizing departments, who also have made statements without fact or foundation that lack any examining in detail, as to "WHY" loss of control accidents happen. Not one hitch manufacturer has ever had such an research project.

I, on the other hand, have examined and researched over 1,000 loss of control accidents, specifically towing an Airstream or Argosy trailer, and proved why over 95 percent of them happened, most of which could have been prevented or avoided.

Debating opinions on this subject, has never really done more than stir the dust.

Hopefully, most owners will digest the information, and make necessary changes as necessary.

A thread then would be nice, that would contain the before and after results, should a change have been made.

That, I believe, would be extremely valueable, to those who are at that "Y" in the road, regarding proper hitching, proper tow vehicles, and it's why's and wherefore's.

Andy

ROBERT CROSS · 11-24-2008, 04:05 PM

Andy

Will you be posting your thesis?

Inland RV Center, In · 11-24-2008, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS

Andy

Will you be posting your thesis?

No.

It will be published, in a magazine that is readily available.

I don't want to start a cross fire, on this Forums.

If others wish to post about it, agreeing or disagreeing, that certainly is their choice.

Andy

OhScottyOh · 11-25-2008, 09:35 PM

Thanks Andy,
How do you figure I am over hitched? I chose the Hensley as a matter of safety. I still question why a person that spends the kind of money it takes to buy a new AS would skimp on the hitch. Just does't make any sense to me.
Scotty

OhScottyOh · 11-25-2008, 09:55 PM

Hi Mustang,
GAWF 4000, GAWR 4150, GVW 7200, GCWR 16000, Tow cap 10100.
Thanks
Scotty

Sean Woodruff · 11-26-2008, 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inland RV Center, In

It will be published, in a magazine that is readily available.

Hallelujah! Someone needs to publish that.

Hopefully you will discuss the butterfly effect and how chaos theory plays a role in towing.

Looking forward to reading it.

Mikethefixit · 11-26-2008, 11:17 AM

Scotty
Look at the weights Front and rear are within 100 lbs. If the trailer is level, park on the level and use your levels on the trailer or Put a shot level on the door sill. I think its as good as its gonna get. I do think however that the bars U have are way too heavy. I see the other problem is the TV But Id rather not get into a debate about that.

ROBERT CROSS · 11-26-2008, 12:37 PM

Scott,
Have you been able to get the measurements yet.(post4)
Can't stress enough, getting the coach as level as possible is very important. Once that's done the bar adjustments can be tweaked.
This is us loaded for two weeks of boon-dock'n. Set up using the measurements. Jacks set 1/2 way between second and third marks.
You can see the bar deflection at this setting in the second photo. Notice the trailer is NOT level.(now using a 6" drop)

fawr-4180#
rawr-5500#

at the scales
front-3620#
rear-4740#
trlr-7580# note that trlr is 280# overweight.
total-15940#
After bar adjustment at the scales, (now set at the third mark) I was able to unload the trailer 90#
If you notice I have plenty of leeway as far as the axle ratings go. And enough room in the Burb to transfer the rest of the trailer weight. Which was done before leaving the scales.

I know I'm a little anal about this, but I try to hit the truck stop whenever I'm not sure of how we're set up.

OhScottyOh · 11-27-2008, 11:55 AM

Thanks to all for your concerns and advice. I appreciate all you have to offer. I have some photo to post later but want to get to the turkey today.
Here are weights/ measurment you have asked questioned in addition to those previously posted. These were taken at scales.

Load truck no trailer:
Fender rt ft 36.25, lt ft 36.25, rt rr 38.5 lt rr 35.5
Inside top of reciever 17.75
Front axle 3620 rear axle 3160, total 6780.
Loaded trailer level, full fresh water, full propane:
Tongue 1100, axle 6060.

Truck and trailer no tension on bars:
Fenders rt ft 37, lt ft 37, rt rr 36, lt rr 36
Reciever 13.75
Bottom of frame ft 13, rr 18.75
Axle ft 3160, rear 4540, total 7700

Jack 3rd mark:
Reciever 15
Frame ft 14.75, rr 17.25

Jack 2nd mark:
Reciever 15.2
Frame ft 15.75, rr 17.00

Jack 3rd mark
Reciever 15.5
Frame ft 16.0, rr 16.8

Jack at the stop
Reciever 15.75
Frame ft 16.25, 16.75
Trailer axle weight 6200
Truck weights ft 3660, rr 3840
Measurment rt ft 36.25, lt ft 36.25, rt rr 36.75, lt rr 37.00

Got to get on the road to Bend, OR for turkey with the kids. Happy Thanksgiving to all

Scotty