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Old 05-07-2016, 02:57 PM   #29
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1/3, 1/3, 1/3 is a myth as being necessary and physically impossible unless tv wheelbase is very close to the distance between ball and trailer axle. There are some other variables in there as well, but that's the big one. TV manufacturers don't even discuss the 3rd, 3rd 3rd split anymore.
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Old 05-07-2016, 03:25 PM   #30
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What I do is to set it up in a way that I think is good, test drive it a bit and adjust if needed.

When it feels really good, I leave it alone and try to put it back the same way next trip and then repeat the process.

I do this this way even though I own my own truck scale that I can use whenever I want.

What I have found in my experience is that if I try to set up WD "by the book", this method takes too much weight off of the rear tow vehicle axle.

My combination tows MUCH better with just a little squat on the back of the tow vehicle.


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Old 05-07-2016, 03:31 PM   #31
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Looking for a few to try out a WDH spreadsheet

Quote:
Originally Posted by dznf0g View Post
1/3, 1/3, 1/3 is a myth as being necessary and physically impossible unless tv wheelbase is very close to the distance between ball and trailer axle. There are some other variables in there as well, but that's the big one. TV manufacturers don't even discuss the 3rd, 3rd 3rd split anymore.

You let us know once you've tried it. The minimum is still front axle load restoration. If you can't get past that, then you've still a starting point.

1/3 is a guideline. If you want worst, try the 50% crap. That sells pickups to the unwary. It doesn't designate best lash up.
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Old 05-07-2016, 03:34 PM   #32
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What I do is to set it up in a way that I think is good, test drive it a bit and adjust if needed.

When it feels really good, I leave it alone and try to put it back the same way next trip and then repeat the process.

I do this this way even though I own my own truck scale that I can use whenever I want.

What I have found in my experience is that if I try to set up WD "by the book", this method takes too much weight off of the rear tow vehicle axle.

My combination tows MUCH better with just a little squat on the back of the tow vehicle.


Superat stultitia.

1/3 is difficult. And pickups tend to be too light on rear axle. Thus why one leaves the final 10% or so on that axle.

The earlier suggestion has little to do with exactly how "you" run yours. But it would help the spreadsheet developer (past what you may wish to change, if anything).
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Old 05-07-2016, 03:58 PM   #33
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You let us know once you've tried it. The minimum is still front axle load restoration. If you can't get past that, then you've still a starting point.

1/3 is a guideline. If you want worst, try the 50% crap. That sells pickups to the unwary. It doesn't designate best lash up.
Use the sheet and make up fictitious wheel bases and axle to ball and ball to trailer axle and use actual math to back up your statements. 3rds would only be possible if your wd was AT the rear axle, there was no overhang, axle and truck wb and trailer ball-to-axle were equadistant. Doesn't matter much whether it's a truck or car.
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Old 05-07-2016, 04:07 PM   #34
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Wrong. Done many times with long overhang cars.
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Old 05-07-2016, 04:21 PM   #35
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Wrong. Done many times with long overhang cars.
Not unless you had a very short trailer. Work the math and prove me wrong.
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Old 05-07-2016, 06:11 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slowmover View Post
1/3 is difficult. And pickups tend to be too light on rear axle. Thus why one leaves the final 10% or so on that axle.

The earlier suggestion has little to do with exactly how "you" run yours. But it would help the spreadsheet developer (past what you may wish to change, if anything).

My comment was just a general comment, I wasn't really addressing any specific post at all, but just throwing something out there that works for me.

My goal is a combination that tows excellent, kinda like a class 8 tractor trailer is an excellent benchmark.

As for me, my setup reaches this benchmark and maybe even a little more. (And I know that is a bold statement. )


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Old 05-07-2016, 06:17 PM   #37
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Fwiw, next time I hook or unhook I will endeavor to get you some information for your spreadsheet.

I think what you guys are doing is cool and worthwhile.

I have a lot of weight data from my last unhook, but I did not unhook and measure tongue weight. I never have done that. But I will before I leave NM.


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Old 05-07-2016, 06:30 PM   #38
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Thank you Morgan. And also I was a bit short in #35. I mean prove in the mathematical sense of proof, not in the playground sense. We need proof checkers to make sure there are no errors in the application on the indesputable theories of physics and math.
I still say, unless you make up a vehicles dimensions which don't exist, you can't achieve a 3rd 3rd 3rd split of added rear axle weight.
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Old 05-07-2016, 07:27 PM   #39
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You let us know once you've tried it. The minimum is still front axle load restoration. If you can't get past that, then you've still a starting point.

1/3 is a guideline. If you want worst, try the 50% crap. That sells pickups to the unwary. It doesn't designate best lash up.
I don,t disagree with you here relative to the "restore 50% of the original ride height" thing...and it brings up a slightly off topic head scratcher for me. I've read on here repeatedly, that folks have difficulty restoring even 50% of the ride height with a long hitch bar or a Hensley/PP stinger. I have no problem, with a maximum load or a minimal load restoring a front ride height well past the original loaded TV ride height.....with still 1 notch of pull left on the HAHA jacks. I mean hiked up in the rear and nose dived in the front. I am not in the camp of believing that the length of the stinger has any appreciable effect on that issue. I think something is off in the setup if that is occurring. It certainly has an effect on the amount of force required on the spring bar ends, but not past the range of adjustment available. The sheet predictions seem to verify this, but I do have some additional work to do on the spring bar force exerted at various settings to be confident of the values of those predictions. When my setup is balanced per the sheet and verified by scales, (this was my "baseline" weighing with not much in the truck) the rear of the truck was squatted 2" and the front was at it's original unladen ride height with WD hooked up. With WD hooked up at the third notch and 900#s of receiver weight.
With WD relaxed front is up 1/2" and rear is squatted 2 5/8".
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Old 05-07-2016, 07:35 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by J. Morgan View Post

What I have found in my experience is that if I try to set up WD "by the book", this method takes too much weight off of the rear tow vehicle axle.

My combination tows MUCH better with just a little squat on the back of the tow vehicle.


Superat stultitia.
J.M. ( and Slowmover), thanks for joining the fray! I must admit, I was a bit intimidated by starting this, being a relative newbie and all. And I knew I would be getting input from some, if not many, who have towed for many years and have set their rigs up by feel, by eyeball, or by 6th sense. And there is really nothing wrong with that. Whatever works for you and gets you safely to the next campsite is what it's all about.

In my situation, with a new F150, Ford recommends putting 25% of the weight back to the front axle, thus the section of the spreadsheet where you can input the % to return to the front and see how many lbs. that is. This seems to agree with your comment about squatting a bit in the rear end.

I hope that you will give it a try and help us find out if there is something about the spreadsheet that needs to be tweaked. You can post your filled in sheet here and we can review it. I have protected all cells in the sheet except user inputs, so the formulas and basic structure can't be changed.
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Old 05-07-2016, 08:36 PM   #41
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J.M. ( and Slowmover), thanks for joining the fray! I must admit, I was a bit intimidated by starting this, being a relative newbie and all. And I knew I would be getting input from some, if not many, who have towed for many years and have set their rigs up by feel, by eyeball, or by 6th sense. And there is really nothing wrong with that. Whatever works for you and gets you safely to the next campsite is what it's all about.

In my situation, with a new F150, Ford recommends putting 25% of the weight back to the front axle, thus the section of the spreadsheet where you can input the % to return to the front and see how many lbs. that is. This seems to agree with your comment about squatting a bit in the rear end.

I hope that you will give it a try and help us find out if there is something about the spreadsheet that needs to be tweaked. You can post your filled in sheet here and we can review it. I have protected all cells in the sheet except user inputs, so the formulas and basic structure can't be changed.
clamb, I'm confused by the 25% Ford statement and meant to ask you about it earlier, but forgot. Is that 25% of the weight removed from the front axle with no wd hooked up....or 25% of the added rear axle weight with no WD hooked up....or 25% of receiver weight? Surely they don't mean 25% of the weight removed from the front axle?????? That would be as weird...or wrong as the 50% of ride height restoration, IMO.
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Old 05-07-2016, 09:16 PM   #42
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clamb, I'm confused by the 25% Ford statement and meant to ask you about it earlier, but forgot. Is that 25% of the weight removed from the front axle with no wd hooked up....or 25% of the added rear axle weight with no WD hooked up....or 25% of receiver weight? Surely they don't mean 25% of the weight removed from the front axle?????? That would be as weird...or wrong as the 50% of ride height restoration, IMO.
The manual says to measure the front height unloaded, then measure the height with TW, not hitched, then adjust the hitch tension to bring the front end down 1/4 of the way. I just double checked the manual, and that is the way it is stated.

When I first tried out my new Blue Ox, at the nominal recommended link, it brought the front end down 2/3.

I have no idea what the logic is behind this.
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