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Old 01-03-2011, 04:13 PM   #113
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1) One of the basis of scientific research is peer review, which is in many cases MORE important than the original research, in that it exposes errors and omissions and ignorance by the researchers, which often refutes the findings of the research altogether.

2) You won't avoid criticism by not posting your findings here. Probably just the opposite will happen.

3) We all want to discuss this.

Rich the Viking
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Old 01-03-2011, 04:19 PM   #114
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In this case, the word "criticism" means "the comparative discussion of the merits or accuracy of" the content of the copyright material. "Criticism" is a legal term without a negative connotation, in this case. It is the very definition of peer review.
Not in my dictionary.

Maybe, on second thought, so that those that are looking forward to criticising, even before publication, can find something more constructive to do, I should not publish it at all.

But instead e-mail it to those that request it, or maybe even an SASE.

I just sincerely wish, that those that are waiting, with baseball bats in their hands, could find something more important to do, than to slam data, they haven't even seen.

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Old 01-03-2011, 04:28 PM   #115
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Originally Posted by VIKING View Post
1) One of the basis of scientific research is peer review, which is in many cases MORE important than the original research, in that it exposes errors and omissions and ignorance by the researchers, which often refutes the findings of the research altogether.

2) You won't avoid criticism by not posting your findings here. Probably just the opposite will happen.

3) We all want to discuss this.

Rich the Viking
Rich.

Discussions, I have no problem with, that's what the intent of this Forums is.

But when someone offers new information, be it with or without errors, it should be the beginning perhaps of new ways to think and review a problem that has existed for 60 years or more.

That would be productive. But when demands are made by the select few, to do this and that, then the real fun ceases.

Once again, and for the last time, leave it alone. Your all welcome to do it yourself, if you so wish.

Lets put the fire out guys, and be fair and reasonable with each other. If not, then so be it, as I will not participate in such nonsense.

Andy
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Old 01-03-2011, 04:40 PM   #116
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I haven't seen anyone slamming the data. I've seen people express the desire that you publish the data with the conclusions, so your conclusions become supportable. You have the data and you indicated you would publish it on your website.

it was then mentioned (by me) that the data would ultimately be discussed in its entirety here, and that since you kept mentioning copyright, you were reminded that we have a legal right to do so under the fair use doctrine.

You denied that, and made a couple of erroneous comments about copyright law and were corrected by others. You then took issue with the word "criticism" which has a different meaning in academic circles, and here we are, with you suggesting that you may not publish your research at all, but send it privately to only those who might agree with you and not subject your work to rational peer review.

You're either going to publish the data, or you're not.

If you do, everyone will see the quality and quantity of your data, and draw their own conclusions. If their conclusions match your conclusions, you'll be hailed for doing this important research and credited with bringing some clarity to an otherwise vague area of towing knowledge.

If you do not, everyone will come to their own conclusions. Some will blindly support or oppose you. Others, like myself, will just be disappointed that you did not publish the data for peer review.

Personally, I have a high confidence that the data will have minor errors of methodology that do not affect the conclusions, and that the conclusions will match your own conclusions. Any initial research usually doesn't get it 100% right the first time, but opening it up to peer review usually allows the protocol to be revised so future data is collected that addresses the initial concerns - the second round of supporting research.

You took on this project using your own time and money to provide data and conclusions that would be a benefit to the community as a whole. Granted, it's a contentious area and people argue about it, and will continue to do so, without well-prepared data.

Once you put the public data out there, if you do, everything will change. The data is facts. The conclusions are suppositions. People who disagree with them will then either be right or wrong, and it will no longer be a matter of opinion.

Do you have confidence that your data would stand up to scrutiny? If so, publish and be damned. If not, why not have it privately reviewed by people who, welcoming or hostile, show a healthy respect of the scientific method? Get feedback under NDA then review your data, if necessary collect a little more data, and publish.

You have the opportunity to bring clarity. Bring it, or don't. It's up to you.

I would be willing to respect an NDA.

(Side note: I dispute a specific business practice of Inland RV, as stated here. This does not affect my high regard for Andy, his knowledge or the valuable/irreplaceable service he provides. I have high hopes for this research, and only joined this contentious debate to see that the data gets published and reviewed fairly. I truly find the previous debate in this thread pointless, negative and unhelpful. I think/hope Andy will publish shock and awe data that ends the bickering. I feel I lessen myself by participating in this bickering.)
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Old 01-03-2011, 04:48 PM   #117
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Andy

I dont own a baseball bat. We appreciate everything you do for us. Sal.
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Old 01-03-2011, 04:56 PM   #118
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I feel I lessen myself by participating in this bickering.)
You've got that right.
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Old 01-03-2011, 04:58 PM   #119
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Haha.
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Old 01-03-2011, 06:34 PM   #120
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Articles.

Andy
If, after a month of windup, this thread turns into a link to a commercial website, shouldn't it me moved to the Vendor Forum?
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Old 01-03-2011, 07:22 PM   #121
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Study Results

Andy -

Please add my name to the list of those to receive the published results of the study.

Many thanks,
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Old 01-03-2011, 07:30 PM   #122
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Andy,

I would like to see the results of your testing and learn what I can.

If you would like an SASE, say so, I will send it.
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Old 01-03-2011, 07:53 PM   #123
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Time to close this thread......
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Old 01-03-2011, 08:43 PM   #124
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I look forward to Andy's results to see how they compare to the articles that appeared last year in Airstream magazine. I don't fully understand what makes one hitch product any better or worse than others, but like others I am trying to learn what I don't know.
What I have seen is a very heated debate on data and its collection before it has been released. Let's wait for the results.
In closing, I agree with r carl, lets stop killing a dead horse
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Old 01-03-2011, 10:08 PM   #125
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False promises

Hi, someone said that they were going to run tests.

Someone said they were going to post the results on this forum.

And now the story changes by the hour, by someone.

Maybe someone should have run the tests, documented the results, posted them, and let the forum take it's natural course.

I also think the moderators should lock this thread, as it is of no use to anyone, except to argue about something, that someone isn't going to do.


[That's my opinion]
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Old 01-03-2011, 10:25 PM   #126
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