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Old 01-12-2011, 09:51 AM   #141
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Thanks ANDY
Great data .
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Old 01-12-2011, 10:56 AM   #142
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Thanks for all your time and trouble, Andy.

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Old 01-12-2011, 11:10 AM   #143
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Originally Posted by Inland RV Center, In View Post
We will gladly wait for the results of your tests, for comparison purposes.

When might you consider starting them?
I am not trying to court controversy. I am attempting to confirm your findings.

Due to the lack of information on how the tests were conducted, I or anyone else are unable to repeat your tests and produce comparison data, even if we were inclined to.

That makes your data unverifiable and unsupportable.

That's why I asked the questions - to clarify the method used and to rule out any potential problems with your protocol. Without those answers, you can't even say, "controlled tests" because no-one beside you knows what the controls were.

Answering everyone's questions simply removes uncertainty about your 'data' and allows ALL of us to have more confidence in it.
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Old 01-12-2011, 11:28 AM   #144
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I am not trying to court controversy. I am attempting to confirm your findings.

Due to the lack of information on how the tests were conducted, I or anyone else are unable to repeat your tests and produce comparison data, even if we were inclined to.

That makes your data unverifiable and unsupportable.

That's why I asked the questions - to clarify the method used and to rule out any potential problems with your protocol. Without those answers, you can't even say, "controlled tests" because no-one beside you knows what the controls were.

Answering everyone's questions simply removes uncertainty about your 'data' and allows ALL of us to have more confidence in it.
So far, only you and one other person are not satisfied without having gobs of details.

You have free time, I do not, as I still work 10 to 12 hours a day. Therefore I do not have time to make a dissertation for the purposes of satisfying those 2 people.

They are certainly free to make any tests that they may so choose, with whatever parameters they desire, as I did.

So far, it looks like most people understand the tests and are appreciative as well. That accomplished the goals we set.

Andy
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Old 01-12-2011, 11:43 AM   #145
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It would be interesting to see the other Andy weigh in on this but he's probably too smart for that.



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Old 01-12-2011, 11:44 AM   #146
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Since when does airforum threads offering information need to be complete, verifiable, supportable, repeatable, with complete certainty and confidence? Take it for what it is.

Now that this thread has reached it's predictable conclusion, time to move on.
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Old 01-12-2011, 12:28 PM   #147
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Well, it would be interesting to have the note at the bottom of Andy's article elaborated on...."Information from sources deemed reliable have been used in this article".

Like, what "information", and what "sources", and who "deemed" it reliable.

Just saying.......
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Old 01-12-2011, 12:33 PM   #148
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Thank you, Andy, for taking the time and effort to do this. And for posting your results. As always, the silent majority appreciate your efforts.

Now to watch the responses
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Old 01-12-2011, 12:36 PM   #149
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I appreciate that you published the data.

I am happy for you that most people "understand" the tests, even though there is not enough information to do so.

However, your data cannot be scrutinized in any meaningful way by any third party.

Therefore, your data is not informative. It cannot be used in any meaningful way in making purchase or set-up decisions, and adds nothing to the resolution of the interminable debate.

You had an opportunity to bring clarity. Instead, you have obfuscated the protocol to the point where this effort of yours is meaningless, and a waste of your, my, and everyone else's time.
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Old 01-12-2011, 12:37 PM   #150
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Thanks Andy;
Again you have taken the time to pass on your knowledge to this forum. There will always be those few that can't just say thanks for your time and effort. Thankfully I'm not their spouse!! can you imagine.
Thanks again Andy
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Old 01-12-2011, 12:54 PM   #151
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Andy:

Thanks for your report. I appreciate the effort and time you put into this.

Can you tell me please how to apply these test results to real-world setups? For example, given a 1998 34' Airstream tied to a 2006 Dodge Ram 2500 Cummins 4X4, how would one select the appropriate spring bars?

Thanks again. I think a simple "here's how to apply this..." would go a long way towards helping all us poor folk.

All my best,
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Old 01-12-2011, 01:06 PM   #152
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Andy:

Thanks for your report. I appreciate the effort and time you put into this.

Can you tell me please how to apply these test results to real-world setups? For example, given a 1998 34' Airstream tied to a 2006 Dodge Ram 2500 Cummins 4X4, how would one select the appropriate spring bars?

Thanks again. I think a simple "here's how to apply this..." would go a long way towards helping all us poor folk.

All my best,
The purpose of the tests was to show how different bars bend, under a given load.

The idea is to use a load equalizing hitch rating, that is adequate for the job, without beating the trailer to pieces.

You have a heavy duty tow vehicle, which in itself provides some road shock to the trailer. The heavier torsion bar you use, the more of that same energy is transfered to the trailer.

I would think an 800 pound and certainly not more than a 1000 pound torsion bar rating would do a good job for you, along with a torsion type sway control, auch as Reese offers.

The chart also shows what happens to the bars, when, as an example, you go up a driveway, such as they now have a gas stations. That suggests that you should go up the driveway at an angle, instead of straight, as that will minimize the added stress to the bars, as well as the front end of the trailer.

Andy
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Old 01-12-2011, 01:11 PM   #153
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Geeee Dave, did you question your mother how she cooked your meals?
HAHAHAHAHA...having heard about Dave's mum from him, I don't think she was the cookin type
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Old 01-12-2011, 01:14 PM   #154
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Since when does airforum threads offering information need to be complete, verifiable, supportable, repeatable, with complete certainty and confidence? Take it for what it is.
But, wouldn't is be nice if the information was "complete, verifiable, supportable, repeatable".

I appreciate Andy's effort to bring information forth a little more light to a topic that is usually characterized by endarkenment.

I hope this, so far, unending controversy will someday result in someone testing hitches in a professional laboratory. Nobody would like their prescriptions to only be tested by a local pharmacy or airplanes to only be tested by each small town airport to see if either were safe.

Even well equipped labs with experienced engineers can make mistakes, use improper protocols and be biased. It's all part of the scientific method and eventually the back and forth should lead to information that we can all rely on. Before a lab does the testing, we are relying on anecdotal information, varying analysis by people with varying degrees of expertise, and tests by vendors. This seems to me a natural process and each person is moving the debate forward. I don't think we will see those professional lab tests until someone has either an economic interest in paying for it, a regulatory agency has the authority and budget to pay for it, or a university lab does it for altruistic reasons, for graduate research or to train students. If someone with an economic interest is a hitch manufacturer or a trade association, the results will be suspect for bias. If a insurance trade association, also having an economic interest, does testing, the results may be more reliable, but there could be bias if the effort has a hidden agenda of increasing rates.

So, like newro' said, take it for what it is. It more than we had before.

Questions from my unscientific mind—wouldn't a stiffer bar provide more sway control? Which is worse—an accident caused by poor sway control or a trailer beat up by stiff bars? The last question does not mean I agree that stiffer bars beat up trailers—I don't know. My experience is that the obvious answer is not always the correct answer and that the obvious answer is often the correct answer. This is not a paradox.

Gene
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