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Old 08-23-2014, 06:11 PM   #41
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I'm not in favour or against the HA/PP...I have no experience with either. Like everyone else I've read numerous positive threads about it and I've received many direct recommendations for it. On the other hand I've also received direct (expert) advice from multiple people telling me its completely unnecessary and I wouldn't need it...."overkill" was used.

With this blurb I'm not trying to put anyones hitch/TV down, I'm also not looking to start a fight or for it to turn into a small TV vs large TV conversation. I'm merely trying to expand the conversion. Hear me out before you bash me

I'm curious about the relation of the hitch to the TV.

Some background...
I tow with what most people here would consider an under-sized setup (I'm within axle ratings). IMO, the dynamics of the vehicle are superb....low center of gravity, stiff lower profile tires (XL rated well above load limits), independent rear suspension, lots of power, powerful large brakes, good fuel economy etc etc etc. With the properly setup WD and custom hitch/receiver the AS feels like it's on rails...no exaggeration, not a HINT of sway. Even while towing a stubby (and tall) single axle white box (SOB) with an uber high centre of gravity JUST ON THE HITCH (with only a single simple friction sway controller) .....essentially the worst combination going.....did I ever feel unsafe or out of control. Towing the AS even feels miles better than that.

...to my point and what I believe "polarlyse" was partially getting at

Is it possible that the dynamics and associated towing experience of the TV before the HA/PP are translating to an "over-inflated" perception of it after the install? Maybe "over-inflated" isn't the correct wording, but I hope you know what I mean

Another way of putting it....perhaps some TV/TT combinations will see more benefit than others and it's not necessarily the "end all and be all" for everyone.

If you love it, and it's the crowning glory of hitches for you, keep using it, enjoy it. I'm not trying to change anyone's mind, I'm just trying to say that it might not be the pinnacle for everyones towing needs. It may just be an unnecessary expense that is designed to fix a problem that isn't present with a particular combination.

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Old 08-23-2014, 06:36 PM   #42
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Joy in driving.

I have towed for hundreds of thousands of miles, the change in the way my trailer tows with the HA is not wishful thinking.

Now, not trying to to start any trouble either, but in my observation, the folks who say these hitches really don't make any difference are the people who have never used one.

I have not seen a single first hand report from a HA/PP user that does not say they are unlike any other hitch, in a positive way.

<edit> i am not, and have not said that a HA/PP is NEDDED, I towed between twelve and fifteen thousand safe miles on the ball.

I am saying that these hitches make towing my Airstream much more pleasant and much less like work.
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Old 08-23-2014, 06:50 PM   #43
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Cory, You just gotta tow with one for several hundred miles...then, and only then will you know what we talk about. I'm just sayin.........
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Old 08-23-2014, 07:46 PM   #44
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This has been an interesting read and thanks to all for keeping the lid on the topic!

First; I have to comment on Cory's post that his TV will be considered by many to be a little small... Wow I just looked up the spec on your Q5 and it weighs about 2,000 lbs less than your trailer. Now please don't get me wrong - the amount I know about this you could put on the head of a pin. So I'm not being critical in anyway. I just wonder how you can use this setup without feeling like the trailer is pushing you around? I'm asking because I tow a 28' with a F150 and sometimes feel like the trailer is pushing me around a bit. I have always put this down to the fact that I have a heavy trailer and I'm running very close to the top end of the rated towing capacity - ( if not a little over)

Finally to circle back and try to stay on point. I tow with a PP and must say its been very good for me and i'm glad I spent the $$. I'm still wondering very much if my towing experience would be a lot better if I have a heavier tow unit (think F250) my problem is I just don't have the experience to know.

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Old 08-23-2014, 07:50 PM   #45
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When towing a heavy trailer, especially with a somewhat lighter vehicle there are three important things.

1. Good strong reliable trailer brakes.

2, Good strong reliable trailer brakes.

3. Good strong reliable trailer brakes.
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Old 08-23-2014, 07:56 PM   #46
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Cory, try one then compare.
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Old 08-23-2014, 07:58 PM   #47
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Thank you sir!

I guess it is just me not having enough time on the road with the trailer to know what i'm dealing with or feeling is actually normal.
I do have good brakes (I think) mind you I must say the dealer I purchased the trailer from was "0" help on how to set the controller - I sort of just guessed and set it around mid way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by J. Morgan View Post
When towing a heavy trailer, especially with a somewhat lighter vehicle there are three important things.

1. Good strong reliable trailer brakes.

2, Good strong reliable trailer brakes.

3. Good strong reliable trailer brakes.
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Old 08-23-2014, 08:02 PM   #48
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Joy in driving.

You should FEEL those trailer brakes at every stop.

I like them turned up where they are quite aggressive.

I wish I could explain what good trailer brakes feel like,,, here is an attempt....

When they are good you will feel the trailer stop your TV. When they are not good you will feel the trailer push you at a stop.

If your trailer brakes are. good you will NOT feel the trailer push you at a stop.
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Old 08-23-2014, 08:16 PM   #49
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It truly makes a huge difference with properly adjusted trailer brakes. Your life can literally depend on them. There is no reason to guess about the adjustment. Do it correctly or have some one do it for you. Learn from them so that can do it yourself. It is not a case of adjusting and forgetting it. You need to be able to adjust them to changing mechanical and road conditions.
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Old 08-23-2014, 08:23 PM   #50
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Joy in driving.

Smaller vehicle or larger vehicle, trailer brakes are just as important....it makes no difference. My vehicle may weigh less but it has large vented rotors with 4 piston Brembo callipers and excellent cooling. A large pickup truck wouldn't have any less to bring to a stop.....actually quite a lot more because all else being equal with the TT the TV probably weighs an additional 1000lbs. My Q5 stops from 60-0 inside 110ft repeatedly with no fade....I don't know a pickup that will come close. Add a trailer and the calculation doesn't change. The braking power is there and the potential for overhead is the same.

RE: weight of vehicle and getting pushed around. All I can say is that the Q5 feels incredibly planted....I don't get the sense that I'm being pushed around....perhaps it's a difference in the suspension geometry, tire metrics or lower centre of gravity....or a combination....can't say for sure.
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Old 08-23-2014, 08:35 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J. Morgan View Post
You should FEEL those trailer brakes at every stop.

I like them turned up where they are quite aggressive.

I wish I could explain what good trailer brakes feel like,,, here is an attempt....

When they are good you will feel the trailer stop your TV. When they are not good you will feel the trailer push you at a stop.

If your trailer brakes are. good you will NOT feel the trailer push you at a stop.
Ok so I can understand that - I will hook the trailer up again tomorrow and see if I can get them set.


Quote:
Originally Posted by AWCHIEF View Post
It truly makes a huge difference with properly adjusted trailer brakes. Your life can literally depend on them. There is no reason to guess about the adjustment. Do it correctly or have some one do it for you. Learn from them so that can do it yourself. It is not a case of adjusting and forgetting it. You need to be able to adjust them to changing mechanical and road conditions.
Thanks for the comments - I found this video on the net. Can I get you guys check it out and let me know if you think what this guy is says is correct and should I set the brakes up as he suggests:



Thanks

Doug
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Old 08-23-2014, 08:37 PM   #52
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Thanks Cory - interesting comments. Hope all is well down east!

Quote:
Originally Posted by cory_can View Post
Smaller vehicle or larger vehicle, trailer brakes are just as important....it makes no difference. My vehicle may weigh less but it has large vented rotors with 4 piston Brembo callipers and excellent cooling. A large pickup truck wouldn't have any less to bring to a stop.....actually quite a lot more because all else being equal with the TT the TV probably weighs an additional 1000lbs. My Q5 stops from 60-0 inside 110ft repeatedly with no fade....I don't know a pickup that will come close. Add a trailer and the calculation doesn't change.

RE: weight of vehicle and getting pushed around. All I can say is that the Q5 feels incredibly planted....I don't get the sense that I'm being pushed around....perhaps it's a difference in the suspension geometry, tire metrics or lower centre of gravity....or a combination....can't say for sure.
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Old 08-23-2014, 09:54 PM   #53
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You know I've read the posts about the PP/HAHA hitches since before I purchased my first AS, a 2012, 30 FC. They must be great since I see only glowing reports. It took a while, but I finally figured out the dynamics of the hitches and do now understand why they are such a stable towing platform. Maybe it's just me, but I love the equalizer I bought at the dealer. Have never felt the slightest sway or problem in wind, traffic, rain or any conditions. I certainly don't need to be any more relaxed at the wheel. At my age, if we stop for lunch, I tend to get sleepy. A little white knuckle then would probably be helpful. The wife drives some and like I, feels no problems with passing trucks, etc. I pull the trailer around town, back and forth to storage on the ball. On short trips to a close State Park, I have pulled it on the ball. The 2500 Chevy Diesel is obviously slightly lighter in the front without the Equalizer WD but to such a small degree, I can find no steering degradation.
Please guys, don't shoot, this isn't an argument. It's just for me and my TV the Equalizer works great. It can be adjusted for whatever weight you think needs to be put back on the front and does a great job with sway control (what ever small amount of sway one gets from an Airstream anyway). Now if I were towing with something lighter, a 1/2 ton or any TV with weaker suspension, my outlook might change. But for now, the big, heavy, expensive, difficult to hook up thing is not for me.
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Old 08-23-2014, 10:09 PM   #54
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What spoils the joy of driving my Airstream is when I have to travel down a busy 8 lane freeway with endless speeders passing on the left or right and constantly cutting me off. Tell me, what hitch fixes that?
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Old 08-23-2014, 10:10 PM   #55
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The only way to fix that is to stay off 8 lane freeways....
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Old 08-24-2014, 03:58 AM   #56
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If it helps this is how we usually explain the difference to people.

If you have a stable towing trailer like an Airstream, connect it to a precise handling stable tow vehicle and set it up precisely there is very little difference with a Hensley. The size and weight of the tow vehicle have very little to do with this is it more about how precise the steering tires and suspension are. If all three ingredients are optimal then I will likely lean towards the better ride with the conventional hitch. The ride is better because the vertical pivot point is much closer to the back of the tow vehicle and in some cases you can achieve better weight transfer.

Take away one of those three ingredients however and you get a very different experience. If you have an poor tow vehicle or hitch set up then the Hensley makes a substantial difference. Another way to put it, a lot can be wrong and the Hensley will still tow well very well.

If I go to an Airstream rally and I take our customers out of the mix I rarely find a truly dialed in set up so for most people a Hensley is going to be a substantial improvement.

I hope this helps.

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Old 08-24-2014, 07:44 AM   #57
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I towed the 25FB with a Hensley hitch with both a Mercedes and the Dodge.

The Classic arrived at the dealership and I decided to take it to the storage unit to install the PP when it arrived from Sean. Thus I towed it home just on the ball at much less that the posted 65 mph on the freeway. Since the truck has a level ride air bag suspension, the truck was level with no WD system. The trailer did wag some when the semi trucks blew past. The Cummins diesel loaded the front axle pretty well so the steering was not negatively impacted.

After the PPP was installed, the driving experience was just like with the Mercedes towing the 25FB with the Hensley. Steady in the winds and truck passing is a desirable feature for me.

At best, there is about a 300 pound transfer to the front axle with the PP. The difference between 4,500 and 4,800 pounds on the front axle is negligible.
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Old 08-24-2014, 08:49 AM   #58
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Okay so I'm a little lost....

I went this AM and jumped on a Transport Canada weight Scale.

First a little background
My truck is a 2013 F150 with a 5.0 engine and 3.55 rear-end
GCWR: 13,500 lbs
GVWR: 7350 lbs
Max Payload: 1242 lbs

First Trip:
Went with the truck alone (full fuel) and here are my weights:
Truck Front Axle: 1590kg > 3505 lbs
Truck Back Axle: 1290 Kg > 2844 lbs
-------------------------------------------
Second Trip:
Hooked up the trailer (2013, 28' flying cloud) and here are the results:
Truck Front axle: 1530kg > 3373 lbs
Truck Rear Axle: 1770 kg > 3902 lbs

Trailer Axles: 2680kg > 5908 lbs
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Now I can get my head around the truck axle numbers changing with the trailer hooked on as my ProPride hitch is doing its job and distributing some of the trailer weights to the truck axles. I'm just not sure if it's doing it correctly, as my front axle got lighter (-132 lbs) and the back axle got heavier (+1058)?
Do these weigh differentials sound about right?
So does this tell me I have a hitch weight of 926 lbs? (1058-132)

For context, the stated weights of my trailer are as follows:
Stated base weight: 5979 lbs
Stated GVWR: 7600 lbs
Stated hitch weight: 976 lbs

Yet the trailer is weighing in 71 lbs under the stated base weight. This should not be possible, as the trailer was full of water and had our normal things that we leave in it all the time. (dishes, pots, bedding etc.) So it should have weighed more than the "base weight" not less?

In the end, I’m trying to figure out if my truck is safe to pull this trailer? Or should I be looking at changing it out for something heavier. Changing TV is not my first option as this truck is only a year old and I’ll take a beating as it only has 62,000 km on it.

Any input of comments into the above would be GREAT!

Thanks

Doug
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Old 08-24-2014, 09:25 AM   #59
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The total weight of your trailer is:

(5908+3373+3902)-(3505+2844) = 6834

The total hitch weight (depending on someones definition) is technically the total of what your truck is seeing but some is being distributed forward.

I'm no expert, but it seems to me that more should be moved forward. Lighter front drive wheels doesn't sound right to me.
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Old 08-24-2014, 09:37 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cory_can View Post
The total weight of your trailer is:

(5908+3373+3902)-(3505+2844) = 6834

The total hitch weight (depending on someones definition) is technically the total of what your truck is seeing but some is being distributed forward.

I'm no expert, but it seems to me that more should be moved forward. Lighter front drive wheels doesn't sound right to me.
Thanks very much for this Cory! I was wondering the same, as front axle has gotten lighter and i'm not sure if that is good or not.
Thanks again

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