Hitch weight with a bathroom scale

[Ag&Au]

Originally Posted by DreamStreamr

No ensuite scales in our house
------------------------------------------------
.

Is the word "ensuite" common in parts of the country?
I had to google it to find out what it means.

Ken

[Inland RV Center, In]

Originally Posted by arcamedies

Hi Andy

I knew I shouldn't have gotten a dual axle trailer for more reasons than it costing triple at toll roads.

Would measuring weight at the coupler be accurate if the trailer tongue is at the 19 1/2" recommended level? (assumed level angle)

Single axle, yes.

Tandem or tri-axle, no.

The tongue height is a function of the trailer weight and pay load, and also of the axle condition.

As an example, the trailer weight and pay load can be constant, but as the rubber rods age within the axle, the entire trailer drops closer to the ground.

That being the case, the tongue height, will, in time, lower.

Therefore the trailers "brand new" tongue height, will change, depending on the pay load, and, the condition of the axle/axles rubber rods.

Andy

[ROBERT CROSS]

Originally Posted by w7ts

Is the word "ensuite" common in parts of the country?
I had to google it to find out what it means.

Ken

No more so than..."outhouse"

[DreamStreamr]

W7TS, I didn't learn it on QRZ.com, but did hear it a lot from friends from north of the 49th parallel. Likewise my favorite, washroom. In their Safeways it might not work at all to ask for a men's room or a restroom. Ask for a washroom and you're readily directed to the necessary room.

Kinda makes me wonder if they men's room and restroom have connotations there and that store just doesn't have those hangouts?

AirsDream, you really need some kinda interactive weight sensing -- sort of a rock sensor. Or just put a lock on the bed cover. The trailer is hers, the truck is mine. She has all the pretty interior spaces, I have the cool stuff in the truck bed. Not a bad trade-off for me.

[IMG]file:///C:/Users/dreamstreamr/My%20Pictures/Picasa%20Exports/2005%20CCD%2025%20tech%20pics/IMG_2493.jpg[/IMG]
Another solution, if there's the right amount of stuff in the truck's bed then there's no room for 800 pound rocks. Or you might find a big rock and be wondering, where's the big toolchest used to be right here???

Jim

[Chief]

Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS

At around $100, it was worth it, gives the option of checking the tongue weight when loading for a trip. Less time at the Cat's when you need only check axle weights.

We now know when to put the junk in the trunk.

For real....it does make it easier to get the balance thing right!!

Bob,

I received my Sherline yesterday, and measured the tongue weight today. Our trailer is currently winterized, so it is as light as it is going to get.....no liquids, etc., etc. (I wanted to see the difference between dry and wet weights). I utilized the Sherline recommended procedure of using a floor jack with the scale.

I think my owner's manual listed the TW around 725 lbs....it measured 800 lbs. It will be interesting to do this again when it's loaded up for a trip.

Ron

[ROBERT CROSS]

Originally Posted by Chief

Bob,

I think my owner's manual listed the TW around 725 lbs....it measured 800 lbs. It will be interesting to do this again when it's loaded up for a trip.

Ron

Yeah...I about fell over the first time I weighed.
We were all packed for a two week dock'n trip so were loaded down pretty good, plus I knew the Hensley would add at least 150lb... but an almost 1200lb tongue weight for 25' trailer was a real surprise.

Interesting that my CAT scale weight for the trailer axles on that trip was 7680lb, 380Lbs over what the axles are rated for. GVWR 7300lb on two 3500lb axles. (might want to ck yours)

So be REAL careful folks, STUFF adds up quick!!!

Got me to moving things around while packing, and made towing even more comfortable knowing things were balanced a little better.

[arcamedies]

Originally Posted by Inland RV Center, In

Single axle, yes.

Tandem or tri-axle, no.

The tongue height is a function of the trailer weight and pay load, and also of the axle condition.

As an example, the trailer weight and pay load can be constant, but as the rubber rods age within the axle, the entire trailer drops closer to the ground.

That being the case, the tongue height, will, in time, lower.

Therefore the trailers "brand new" tongue height, will change, depending on the pay load, and, the condition of the axle/axles rubber rods.

Andy

Thanks Andy

Now I'm thinking I really like the 280 MH Lili and Hans bought that Vinnie's helping with, no juggling act on angles, sag, or calculating levelness.

As you can see in my avatar pic the trailer sits high but my guess is measuring where the rear notch is on the frame and the coupler receiver to see what height is really level and get the tongue weight there.

The Winnebago dealer that sold the trailer couldn't get the ball lower than 20 1/2" due to the high rear end on my FJ but when coupled it sits at 19 1/2". sooooo that would indicate that the tongue weight may be higher even though they measured what they said was level and the trailer tongue weight off the TV was at 540lbs. PHEWWW

In a nutshell where are good points on the frame to measure when the trailer is by itself so I can get a balance reference point for loading?
Concidering axle drop, tire pressure, and frame warp, just kidding.

Thanks John

[RLS]

Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS

Yeah...I about fell over the first time I weighed.
We were all packed for a two week dock'n trip so were loaded down pretty good, plus I knew the Hensley would add at least 150lb... but an almost 1200lb tongue weight for 25' trailer was a real surprise.

Interesting that my CAT scale weight for the trailer axles on that trip was 7680lb, 380Lbs over what the axles are rated for. GVWR 7300lb on two 3500lb axles. (might want to ck yours)

So be REAL careful folks, STUFF adds up quick!!!

Got me to moving things around while packing, and made towing even more comfortable knowing things were balanced a little better.

This is so true. Also, make sure to check your T V for max. tongue weight on the receiver. I too have to be VERY careful on loading since our T V has a max. of 1,000 lbs. tongue weight and the trailer has a tongue weight of 870 lbs. unloaded! The Sherline has been good to have in loading the trailer and keeping the weight distributed correctly.

[DreamStreamr]

The Sherline 1,000 is on my Amazon wish list -- when you buy it for me just be sure to check off on the wish list so no one else also buys me one.

Hoping, hoping, hoping . . .

Jim

[ROBERT CROSS]

Originally Posted by DreamStreamr

The Sherline 1,000 is on my Amazon wish list -- when you buy it for me just be sure to check off on the wish list so no one else also buys me one.

Hoping, hoping, hoping . . .

Jim

Jim

Be on the safe side and order the 2000lb model. Very glad I did.

Bob

[DreamStreamr]

Yeah, you're right Bob. When hitch weight could reasonably sit at 15% of 6,500 pounds, I'd already be at 97.5% of the scale's range. Let's go for the 2K model. Thanks for the reminder -- good advice.

Revising my Amazon.com wish list so you guys can get me the right one for my birthday this summer,

Jim

[B25guy]

Originally Posted by Inland RV Center, In

The bathroom scale works ok with single axle trailers, but presents a problem when attempting to weigh the tounge weight of a tandem axle trailer, along with most any other scale.

A tandem axle trailer, must be perfectly level, in order to obtain the correct tongue weight.

If the front of the trailer is higher than level, the weight reading will be higher than the actual true tongue weight.

Also, if the front of the trailer is lower than level, the weight reading will be lower than the actual true tongue weight.

Andy

Just for giggles; using the 2k Sherline model, my 25' Safari SS sitting winterized, i.e. no water, no food, 2 full LPG tanks, no adult beverages...

Measured at the coupler:
@15.5" (lower than towing) = 680#
@19.25" (normal towing height) - 790#
@ 22" (higher than towing) - 845#

[ROBERT CROSS]

Originally Posted by B25guy

Just for giggles; using the 2k Sherline model, my 25' Safari SS sitting winterized, i.e. no water, no food, 2 full LPG tanks, no adult beverages...

Measured at the coupler:
@15.5" (lower than towing) = 680#
@19.25" (normal towing height) - 790#
@ 22" (higher than towing) - 845#

Great post!!

Shows how important towing level is.

[Inland RV Center, In]

Originally Posted by B25guy

Just for giggles; using the 2k Sherline model, my 25' Safari SS sitting winterized, i.e. no water, no food, 2 full LPG tanks, no adult beverages...

Measured at the coupler:
@15.5" (lower than towing) = 680#
@19.25" (normal towing height) - 790#
@ 22" (higher than towing) - 845#

Now, if you could try those weights again, but do it in 1/2 inch increments, it would, I think, much better paint the picture, for many owners, as to "why" having the trailer level, "IS" important.

Andy

[B25guy]

Andy,

I'm in the process of loading for a trip this weekend so I'll grab some measurements as you suggest, this time loaded for the road.

Marc

[Lazerus]

I don't have an AirStream but this topic answered a few questions that should have been obvious to me so I figured I'd repay that with a necropost and clear up a couple of things for those that wanted accuracy on their hitch weights.



The bathroom scale trick. It's math, it works 100%, however.
All scales have a fudge factor, truck scales are something in the order of 50kg, 100lbs. The other problem is scales have a set point where that accuracy is set. Generally you set the scale at the intended target. So truck scales it's apx 40,000 lbs. At the extreme ends of the scale range it can be out 10%.
Bathroom scales are in the order of 1/2lb some as bad as 2 lbs. Target is generally 150 lbs. Put 5 packs of 1lb bacon on the scale and you'll be surprised, put something you know weighs 150lbs on it and it'll be much closer if not exact.
Why that matters, we're too light to use a truck scale for accurate hitch weight. When using a bathroom scale set your fulcrum distance so that you're aiming at 150-200 lbs on the scale.
Finished accuracey of the scale. multiply your fudge factor by the fulcrum distance. So if the scale is out 2lbs, and your multiplier is 4, you have +/-8lbs to work with. 1/2lb will be 2lbs. Very livable numbers.


Hitch height. How this will affect your hitch weight on single, double, or even tri axle depends on where the absolute CofG is on your trailer. The lower it is the less affect it has on the hitch.
A big oops that I've seen done many many times is setting the height with a dead level trailer. I've never yet seen one tow dead level, too many variables.
Seen many gentlemen come in and get the hitch set with an empty TV, then complain that the trailer was nose down on their trip.
Load both the tow vehicle and trailer as per trip, including people if you're not using a full size truck. Place trailer on TV with any hitch height (guess close). Measure the amount the TV drops, and whatever adjustment you need to get the trailer level. Use that to take your second measurement. Depending on how far out you were the first time you should only need one correction. Single axles with High C/G might find they need 2.

Even my 3/4 ton drops 2-4 inches when I drop 1k on the hitch. With 1k of 5th wheel and 1k of work tools she squats about 6". It's enough that I raise my hitch one bolt hole traveling to jobsites. Airbags soon. My Jeep will drop the hitch 2" with 2 adults in the back seat.

Angle is better than pipes, but I've never had anything roll... YET.. lol

[uncle_bob]

Hi

The same "expected range" thing comes in when you do the scale zero process outlined in the original post. The scale designer expected some drift over the life of the scale. He didn't expect ten pounds of pipe and wood. How much this impacts accuracy - who knows.....

If you are within 10% of one or another limit when you weigh the tongue, that's to close. Do something about the loading. None of this is NASA grade measurement (and they missed Mars ...). As mentioned in the thread, there are a bunch of variables between what you measure and what you may actually "see" on your receiver or hitch ball.

Bob