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Old 01-23-2009, 06:31 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TROPHYJIM2 View Post
On a Hensley or a Propride, once your jack it in......I don't think anything moves anyway
There might be conditions under which the drawbar does move relative to the receiver. The following is a question/answer from Hensley Hitch Hints:

What's the loud clunk I hear when turning a corner?
The hitch bar is sliding inside the receiver of the tow vehicle. This is no cause for concern, there is always a little play in the receiver, otherwise you'd never get the bar in. However, as dirt or rust builds up on the hitch bar or the inside of the receiver, the hitch bar won't slide smoothly. The clunk is the hitch bar essentially "breaking loose" from a rough surface.

Ron
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Old 01-23-2009, 07:18 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by SteveH View Post
I have read on this forum where Hensley users have stated the trailer will "move around" behind the tow vehicle, but not sway. I wonder if this "move around" is not because of side to side movement of the draw bar, or whatever Hensley calls the part that goes into the receiver.
Steve,

The "moving around" more likely is due to yaw-axis play than to side to side movement of the drawbar.

If the drawbar has a 2 degree yaw relative to the TV, then the HA's front unit will be rotated by 2 degrees relative to the TV. If the front (lower) unit rotates by 2 degrees, and the rear (upper) unit does not rotate, the rear unit will shift laterally a couple inches.

Perhaps it is the lateral moving from side to side which is being observed by the HA users.

Quote:
Additionally, in theory, the Reese will transfer the same amount of weight as the ProPride or Hensley given all else is the same, so the amount of "weld" to the receiver should be the same.
The nature of the contact forces and friction forces between the top and bottom insides of the receiver and the top and bottom sides of the drawbar depend on what percentage of the tongue weight is being transferred.

With no load transfer, the rear of the drawbar is pushing down on the rear of the receiver opening and the front of the drawbar is pushing up on the front of the receiver opening.

As WD is applied the contact force at the rear increases and the contact force at the front decreases until the front of the drawbar is no longer in contact with the top of the receiver.

With yet more WD applied, the front of the drawbar makes contact with the bottom of the front receiver opening. The downward force between front of drawbar and receiver begins to increase, and the downward force at the rear begins to decrease.

At some point, the rear of the drawbar will lift away from the bottom of the receiver and will move up to make contact with the top of the rear receiver opening.

As more WD is applied, the downward force exerted by the front of the drawbar will increase, and the upward force exerted by the rear of the drawbar will also increase.

The point of all this is to say that the "welding" (actually static friction forces) between drawbar and receiver occurs, not distributed along the drawbar at its top, but rather over relatively small areas at the bottom front and upper rear.

Ron
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Old 01-23-2009, 07:40 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by SteveH View Post
....why is the "pressure" on the receiver greater on the ProPride and the "orange" hitch than any other weight distributing hitch?
Steve,

The Hensley Arrow and the 3P are about 12" longer than other WD hitches. This means the ball, and the downward force acting on the ball, are located about 12" farther from the TV's rear axle.

Due to the longer lever arm, the HA and the 3P, for a given tongue weight, cause more load to be added to the TV's rear axle and more load to be removed from the front. And, this means the WD system must transfer more load to achieve a given amount of net loading on the TV's front and rear axles.

More load transfer requires more pitch-axis torque to be transmitted to the TV via the receiver. So, with an HA or 3P, and all other things being equal, there will be more "pressure" on the receiver.

However, with the HA or 3P, the receiver also must transmit significantly more yaw-axis torque. All sway-control hitches, except for the PullRite, must transmit yaw-axis torque via the receiver -- the more, the better. That's why the Equal-i-zer and Dual Cam are more effective than a single or double friction bar, and the HA and 3P are more effective than the EQ or DC.

Ron
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Old 01-24-2009, 07:41 PM   #32
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Steve,

Aren't you glad you asked about a very simple issue?

I love me some daily Ron Gratz posts.
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Old 01-25-2009, 08:47 AM   #33
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IMHO

Bite the rivit, replace the OEM.

The class V Reese has the insert welded in, solved much of the slop problem. My reason for changing was the quality of the OEM receiver. Working at a G.M. store I have seen quite a few failures. Note the differences in the photo's.

Just MY opinion though.
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Old 01-25-2009, 01:00 PM   #34
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First, I want to thank everyone for your input.

Second, We just got back from our rally trip a couple of hours ago, and thought I'd report about the hitch mods. They are GREAT! The hitch does not move AT ALL! The anti sway properties are noticably improved. The whole rig has that "locked together" feeling while driving. There is a noticable improvement in anti sway when a truck passes. It now drives and handles like the Reese I had years ago in the old Suburban.

I am happy with the new setup.
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Old 01-26-2009, 03:56 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS View Post
IMHO

Bite the rivit, replace the OEM.

The class V Reese has the insert welded in, solved much of the slop problem. My reason for changing was the quality of the OEM receiver. Working at a G.M. store I have seen quite a few failures. Note the differences in the photo's.

Just MY opinion though.
Robert,

I've seen the illustrated comparaisons of the OEM hitch with the Reese before, and the difference looks impressive.

However, you, and/or whoever put up the others that I saw, do not show the other cross member that the OEM attaches to that forms part of the bumper, and by leaving that part out of the illustration, you are being unfair and misleading. After all, a cross member that the hitch attaches to, become part of the stuctural integrety of the hitch.
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Old 01-26-2009, 05:08 PM   #36
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I was pretty impressed with the "other cross member that the OEM attaches to that forms part of the bumper" part on my Hidden Hitch.

Can't speak to the Hidden part though, sticks out like a capstan on a tugboat
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Old 01-26-2009, 07:32 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveH View Post
Robert,

I've seen the illustrated comparaisons of the OEM hitch with the Reese before, and the difference looks impressive.

However, you, and/or whoever put up the others that I saw, do not show the other cross member that the OEM attaches to that forms part of the bumper, and by leaving that part out of the illustration, you are being unfair and misleading. After all, a cross member that the hitch attaches to, become part of the stuctural integrety of the hitch.
You must be referring to the one that rusts and cracks....

The "box" has very little fore/aft support and the 8" or so welds tend to crack under the strain.

I have personally seen more than a dozen fail. And have replaced several under factory warranty. Only problem, they are being replaced with a unit that has not been up-graded. Most folks opt for an aftermarket, and just keep the warranty replacement in storage. FWIW.
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Old 01-26-2009, 08:55 PM   #38
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That one on the Left looks like it rusted in two....suppose that could happen with salted roads.

I did hear early on that the welds had a tendency to break, so I cleaned them and ran a good bead over the existing small bead. Don't think mine will break.
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Old 01-27-2009, 08:33 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveH View Post
First, I want to thank everyone for your input.

Second, We just got back from our rally trip a couple of hours ago, and thought I'd report about the hitch mods. They are GREAT! The hitch does not move AT ALL! The anti sway properties are noticably improved. The whole rig has that "locked together" feeling while driving. There is a noticable improvement in anti sway when a truck passes. It now drives and handles like the Reese I had years ago in the old Suburban.

I am happy with the new setup.
Steve,

Glad to hear the mods appear to be working...We'd be really impressed with your feat if you could post a few photographs.

Regards,

Kevin
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Old 01-27-2009, 08:54 AM   #40
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Kevin,

I actually tried to get a couple of picture, but where it is and the fact that it is black, they did not come out very good.

If you want to do this mod, and you are using a Reese hitch, I would only caution you to make sure the side set screw is placed so it will hit the metal of the hitch and not the extra hole in the hitch.
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Old 02-10-2009, 06:51 AM   #41
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Well, I have a friend who has a saying, "nothing is ever useless....worst case, it can be used for a bad example".

After towing a while with the set screws in the receiver, I've found it has problems. The side set screw comes loose rather quickly. This is even using a grade 8 bolt, and blue Locktite on the threads.

The relevance of my friends saying in this case is that these facts tell me something. First, it tells me there is indeed movement of the hitch in the receiver when towing, as I suspected. Second, it tells me there are some rather strong forces at play making it move.

I'm fortunate to have made a new friend at the vintage rally, and he told me he had experimented by inserting two pennies between the hitch and the receiver, and his results were two smashed pennies, which supports my finding of movement there under great force.

In retrospect, I think the set screw idea will work if TWO set screws are used on the side plane, one in front, and one in back. This would greatly increase the strength of the system, because with one set screw in the middle, the hitch has leverage to "work" back and forth in the receiver. Up and down movement seems not to be a problem as the bottom set screw does not become loose. Unfortunately, two set screws are not a practical option for me as the forged Reese hitch I have does not have enough material in the center to let set screws front and rear work.

The free space between my hitch and receiver was almost .120", and so I've searched around the trailer parts stores here, and have forund a receiver constructed from thicker metal, resulting in a free space of about .060". I am now in the process of removing the original receiver from the stock cross member in preperation for installing the new heavier piece. I will fabricate a shim with this setup, and hope a shim with four contact points will secure the hitch from movement, and be able to withstand the forces.
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Old 02-10-2009, 07:20 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveH View Post
I am now in the process of removing the original receiver from the stock cross member in preperation for installing the new heavier piece. I will fabricate a shim with this setup, and hope a shim with four contact points will secure the hitch from movement, and be able to withstand the forces.
Steve,

Excellent....
I replaced the OEM for different reasons but with the added benefit of reducing the slop factor. I admire your candid approach to the attempted repair. It helps us all. Thanks
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