Visit our Popular Forums

SteveH · 01-21-2009, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TROPHYJIM2

On a Hensley or a Propride, once your jack it in......I don't think anything moves anyway

It might not move on the Hitch end, but with the clearances I measured, it would move on the receiver end. And, I have a dual cam Reese.

TROPHYJIM2 · 01-22-2009, 05:27 AM

I am not familiar with the Reese, but with the significant weight transfer to my TV with the Propride I get VERY little if any movement in the reciever once jacked up. With the Jacks up and hitch pin out I could (and have by mistake when drifting away to separate from the TV) pull the trailer if I forget to let the Jacks down. That happened once and now I don't forget to always relax the jack system. Essentually the Hitch "welds" itself to the top of the reciever when the jacks are engaged, no side movement either that I can tell.
I also have what appears to be a wider than needed reciever and considered the same issues........but I just don't seem to have any problems with this with the Propride set up.

Jim

SteveH · 01-22-2009, 05:36 AM

Jim,

I have read on this forum where Hensley users have stated the trailer will "move around" behind the tow vehicle, but not sway. I wonder if this "move around" is not because of side to side movement of the draw bar, or whatever Hensley calls the part that goes into the receiver.

The reason I even started with this idea was I have had Reese hitches in the past with a tight receiver (88 GMC Suburban), and the thing just drove like it was on rails. The hitch I have now, although a later model with the newer generation of cams, just does not have the quality of sway control my older hitch had. Yes there are differences in the two systems, but only in looks and installation method....the theory of operation is the same. However, as I remember, the hitch head fit snugly in the receiver of the old Sub. So........

Additionally, in theory, the Reese will transfer the same amount of weight as the ProPride or Hensley given all else is the same, so the amount of "weld" to the receiver should be the same.

TROPHYJIM2 · 01-22-2009, 07:19 AM

I can only speak from my experience....no movement that I can tell with the Propride when jacked.

Prior to Propride I had an old Reese set up with chains, and had movement with the same reciever, you would actually hear the bump bump when stopping or turning. I did have the very same concerns you had at that point, and actually thought my reciever was the wrong size for the hitch. There is a lot of room there.

Sean Woodruff · 01-22-2009, 08:19 AM

When towing down the road with either the ProPride or the orange the hitch bar will not move in a sloppy receiver due to the force of the weight distribution. However, when navigating through a campground, at slow speeds and on uneven ground between the TV and Airstream, the hitch bar can hit against the side of the receiver and cause a noise.

The load that is applied by the weight distribution stores the energy that is released by changes in elevation between the TV and Airstream. Even a small gap between the hitch bar and receiver will release the hitch bar and "slap" it against the receiver.

The fix for that with the ProPride or the orange is some dry lube in the receiver so that the bar will not suddenly release and cause the noise. If I had this issue with a conventional hitch I would be looking at doing what has been discussed here because it can affect the pivot point location.

SteveH · 01-22-2009, 08:38 AM

Sean,

I would only ask one question of you....why is the "pressure" on the receiver greater on the ProPride and the "orange" hitch than any other weight distributing hitch?

Not trying to be argumentative, just curious as I have no experience with those hitches.

Sean Woodruff · 01-22-2009, 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveH

Sean,

I would only ask one question of you....why is the "pressure" on the receiver greater on the ProPride and the "orange" hitch than any other weight distributing hitch?

Not trying to be argumentative, just curious as I have no experience with those hitches.

I don't think it is. I didn't mean to insinuate that it is.

However, the side to side forces on the hitch ball with a conventional hitch, multiplied by the distance of the hitch ball to the receiver, may be great enough to overcome that weight distribution force and allow the hitch bar to shift in the receiver.

Ron Gratz · 01-23-2009, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveH

---The objective is not only to have no rattle, but to have NO movement between the hitch parts which should, in my opinion, improve the anti-sway caracteristics of any hitch system.

Steve,

I fully agree. Every sway-control hitch, except for the PullRite, must transmit a yaw-axis torque between TT and TV via the receiver.

If the front end of the drawbar moves 1/8" toward one side and the rear moves 1/8" toward the other side and the distance between the front and rear contact points is 8", you will have a yaw-axis "play" of about +/- 2 degrees.

A yaw-axis "play" of +/- 2 degrees will produce a lateral movement of about +/- 1' at the rear of a 30' trailer. If there is any yaw-axis "play" between the drawbar and the receiver, the effectiveness of the sway control will be diminished.

Ron

Ron Gratz · 01-23-2009, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TROPHYJIM2

On a Hensley or a Propride, once your jack it in......I don't think anything moves anyway

There might be conditions under which the drawbar does move relative to the receiver. The following is a question/answer from Hensley Hitch Hints:

What's the loud clunk I hear when turning a corner?
The hitch bar is sliding inside the receiver of the tow vehicle. This is no cause for concern, there is always a little play in the receiver, otherwise you'd never get the bar in. However, as dirt or rust builds up on the hitch bar or the inside of the receiver, the hitch bar won't slide smoothly. The clunk is the hitch bar essentially "breaking loose" from a rough surface.

Ron

Ron Gratz · 01-23-2009, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveH

I have read on this forum where Hensley users have stated the trailer will "move around" behind the tow vehicle, but not sway. I wonder if this "move around" is not because of side to side movement of the draw bar, or whatever Hensley calls the part that goes into the receiver.

Steve,

The "moving around" more likely is due to yaw-axis play than to side to side movement of the drawbar.

If the drawbar has a 2 degree yaw relative to the TV, then the HA's front unit will be rotated by 2 degrees relative to the TV. If the front (lower) unit rotates by 2 degrees, and the rear (upper) unit does not rotate, the rear unit will shift laterally a couple inches.

Perhaps it is the lateral moving from side to side which is being observed by the HA users.

Quote:

Additionally, in theory, the Reese will transfer the same amount of weight as the ProPride or Hensley given all else is the same, so the amount of "weld" to the receiver should be the same.

The nature of the contact forces and friction forces between the top and bottom insides of the receiver and the top and bottom sides of the drawbar depend on what percentage of the tongue weight is being transferred.

With no load transfer, the rear of the drawbar is pushing down on the rear of the receiver opening and the front of the drawbar is pushing up on the front of the receiver opening.

As WD is applied the contact force at the rear increases and the contact force at the front decreases until the front of the drawbar is no longer in contact with the top of the receiver.

With yet more WD applied, the front of the drawbar makes contact with the bottom of the front receiver opening. The downward force between front of drawbar and receiver begins to increase, and the downward force at the rear begins to decrease.

At some point, the rear of the drawbar will lift away from the bottom of the receiver and will move up to make contact with the top of the rear receiver opening.

As more WD is applied, the downward force exerted by the front of the drawbar will increase, and the upward force exerted by the rear of the drawbar will also increase.

The point of all this is to say that the "welding" (actually static friction forces) between drawbar and receiver occurs, not distributed along the drawbar at its top, but rather over relatively small areas at the bottom front and upper rear.

Ron

Ron Gratz · 01-23-2009, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveH

....why is the "pressure" on the receiver greater on the ProPride and the "orange" hitch than any other weight distributing hitch?

Steve,

The Hensley Arrow and the 3P are about 12" longer than other WD hitches. This means the ball, and the downward force acting on the ball, are located about 12" farther from the TV's rear axle.

Due to the longer lever arm, the HA and the 3P, for a given tongue weight, cause more load to be added to the TV's rear axle and more load to be removed from the front. And, this means the WD system must transfer more load to achieve a given amount of net loading on the TV's front and rear axles.

More load transfer requires more pitch-axis torque to be transmitted to the TV via the receiver. So, with an HA or 3P, and all other things being equal, there will be more "pressure" on the receiver.

However, with the HA or 3P, the receiver also must transmit significantly more yaw-axis torque. All sway-control hitches, except for the PullRite, must transmit yaw-axis torque via the receiver -- the more, the better. That's why the Equal-i-zer and Dual Cam are more effective than a single or double friction bar, and the HA and 3P are more effective than the EQ or DC.

Ron

Sean Woodruff · 01-24-2009, 06:41 PM

Steve,

Aren't you glad you asked about a very simple issue?

I love me some daily Ron Gratz posts.

ROBERT CROSS · 01-25-2009, 07:47 AM

IMHO

Bite the rivit, replace the OEM.

The class V Reese has the insert welded in, solved much of the slop problem. My reason for changing was the quality of the OEM receiver. Working at a G.M. store I have seen quite a few failures. Note the differences in the photo's.

Just MY opinion though.

SteveH · 01-25-2009, 12:00 PM

First, I want to thank everyone for your input.

Second, We just got back from our rally trip a couple of hours ago, and thought I'd report about the hitch mods. They are GREAT! The hitch does not move AT ALL! The anti sway properties are noticably improved. The whole rig has that "locked together" feeling while driving. There is a noticable improvement in anti sway when a truck passes. It now drives and handles like the Reese I had years ago in the old Suburban.

I am happy with the new setup.

SteveH · 01-26-2009, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS

IMHO

Bite the rivit, replace the OEM.

The class V Reese has the insert welded in, solved much of the slop problem. My reason for changing was the quality of the OEM receiver. Working at a G.M. store I have seen quite a few failures. Note the differences in the photo's.

Just MY opinion though.

Robert,

I've seen the illustrated comparaisons of the OEM hitch with the Reese before, and the difference looks impressive.

However, you, and/or whoever put up the others that I saw, do not show the other cross member that the OEM attaches to that forms part of the bumper, and by leaving that part out of the illustration, you are being unfair and misleading. After all, a cross member that the hitch attaches to, become part of the stuctural integrety of the hitch.

markdoane · 01-26-2009, 04:08 PM

I was pretty impressed with the "other cross member that the OEM attaches to that forms part of the bumper" part on my Hidden Hitch.

Can't speak to the Hidden part though, sticks out like a capstan on a tugboat

ROBERT CROSS · 01-26-2009, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveH

Robert,

I've seen the illustrated comparaisons of the OEM hitch with the Reese before, and the difference looks impressive.

However, you, and/or whoever put up the others that I saw, do not show the other cross member that the OEM attaches to that forms part of the bumper, and by leaving that part out of the illustration, you are being unfair and misleading. After all, a cross member that the hitch attaches to, become part of the stuctural integrety of the hitch.

You must be referring to the one that rusts and cracks....

The "box" has very little fore/aft support and the 8" or so welds tend to crack under the strain.

I have personally seen more than a dozen fail. And have replaced several under factory warranty. Only problem, they are being replaced with a unit that has not been up-graded. Most folks opt for an aftermarket, and just keep the warranty replacement in storage. FWIW.

SteveH · 01-26-2009, 07:55 PM

That one on the Left looks like it rusted in two....suppose that could happen with salted roads.

I did hear early on that the welds had a tendency to break, so I cleaned them and ran a good bead over the existing small bead. Don't think mine will break.

**Kevin245** · 01-27-2009, 07:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveH

First, I want to thank everyone for your input.

Second, We just got back from our rally trip a couple of hours ago, and thought I'd report about the hitch mods. They are GREAT! The hitch does not move AT ALL! The anti sway properties are noticably improved. The whole rig has that "locked together" feeling while driving. There is a noticable improvement in anti sway when a truck passes. It now drives and handles like the Reese I had years ago in the old Suburban.

I am happy with the new setup.

Steve,

Glad to hear the mods appear to be working...We'd be really impressed with your feat if you could post a few photographs.

Regards,

Kevin

SteveH · 01-27-2009, 07:54 AM

Kevin,

I actually tried to get a couple of picture, but where it is and the fact that it is black, they did not come out very good.

If you want to do this mod, and you are using a Reese hitch, I would only caution you to make sure the side set screw is placed so it will hit the metal of the hitch and not the extra hole in the hitch.