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Old 03-11-2013, 08:51 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by SteveH
Rich, If I discount the weight of the ProPride (I'm told on here that it's NOT counted as tongue weight, but I wonder), my tongue weight is about 850 pounds, or right at 10% of the trailer weight.
I've heard both as well (that the PP does and doesn't count toward tongue weight). What is the definitive answer?
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Old 03-11-2013, 09:12 PM   #16
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How much drop are you using? It appears you have the adjustable hitch head with 1.25" centers on the bolt holes. Is there an option for a set drop from PP?

I do not remember, do you have the 15" or 16" wheels and tires installed? The 16" Michelins would add about 0.6" in height to the Airstream over the GYM 15" ST tires.

Another choice would be to add one or two of the three blocks back on to the top of each side of the rear axle to elevate the rear end of the truck.

Since one can replace the adjustable part for about $225, if all else fails, get the adjustable unit welded to the precise height and be done with the issue.
I don't know of a set drop option from ProPride, and I do have 16" wheels and tires.

The other two options you mention are possible, but to me, undesirable.
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Old 03-11-2013, 09:14 PM   #17
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I've heard both as well (that the PP does and doesn't count toward tongue weight). What is the definitive answer?
Whatever the answer is, the tow vehicle has to haul it, and I suppose it depends on whatever point is trying to be made.
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Old 03-11-2013, 10:07 PM   #18
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since the hitch is bolted to the trailer I think it is part of the trailer. Therefore tongue weight should include hitch. the weight of the hitch is being carried by the tow vehicle.
Al
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Old 03-11-2013, 10:12 PM   #19
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since the hitch is bolted to the trailer I think it is part of the trailer. Therefore tongue weight should include hitch. the weight of the hitch is being carried by the tow vehicle.
Al
Actually, most of the weight of the ProPride is not bolted to the trailer, but is attached to the coupler as any other hitch would be. No matter, either way the tow vehicle must carry the weight.
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Old 03-11-2013, 10:41 PM   #20
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I'm pretty sure that the manual for my Overlander recommends that the nose be a bit high. It may be worth noting that the manual also includes detailed instructions on how to dig a sewage dump pit when boondocking.

I'm not totally convinced that these recommended practices are up to current specs... I guess if my trailer ever starts to sway or a ranger questions my disposal habits, I can point to my manual to prove 'em wrong!
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Old 03-12-2013, 05:17 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by BigAl
since the hitch is bolted to the trailer I think it is part of the trailer. Therefore tongue weight should include hitch. the weight of the hitch is being carried by the tow vehicle.
Al
Thanks. Im confident on the tow vehicle's capacity but concerned with my Airstream manual that says tongue weight can not exceed 1000 lbs. I don't have the manual in front of me but I believe the unloaded tongue weight is 760 and the ProPride is >200. I must be missing something. If the PP counts toward tongue weight, it sounds like I can't travel with anything in the trailer (propane, water, clothing, supplies, etc.). Confused....back to the manuals!!

(And I apologize for hijacking the thread....)
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Old 03-12-2013, 05:33 AM   #22
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The relatively smooth underbelly, for ward of the axle/axles, acts as a wing.

Stick your hand out the window at 60 MPH and have the leading edge tilted slightly upward. Notice how the wind will apply enough force that wants to make your hand move upward.

If the front of the trailer is higher than level, then the wind that hits the underbelly can actually strive to further raise the front of the trailer.

Rearward of the axle/axles doesn't really matter because of the turbulance cause by the axle tubes.

Bottom line then, is keep the trailer level or slightly lower in front, when necessary.

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Old 03-12-2013, 06:50 AM   #23
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Rich, If I discount the weight of the ProPride (I'm told on here that it's NOT counted as tongue weight, but I wonder), my tongue weight is about 850 pounds, or right at 10% of the trailer weight.
The answer to this is, "yes and no." As far as the trailer itself is concerned, it's not part of the tongue weight. But there is a difference between "tongue weight" and "receiver load capacity."

Most trailer owner's manuals call the "tongue weight" the actual load carried by the trailer tongue. Most tow vehicle owner's manuals call the reciver load capacity a "tongue weight." The two "tongue weight" terms are NOT synonymous. As an extreme example, if you put a cargo box on your receiver, and started filling it with bricks, you'd soon reach your tow vehicle's "tongue weight" capacity, even though you haven't hooked up a trailer tongue at all.

So, as far as your tow vehicle is concerend , consider the weight of the ProPride hitch as part of the receiver load capacity; it's still a weight supported by the reciever, even though it's not part of the trailer tongue.
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Old 03-12-2013, 09:05 AM   #24
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loaded or empty

reminds me of a old joke:
you're measuring with a micrometer - marking with a grease pencil and cutting with a chainsaw, it's not an exact science
evryone is stressing about .5 inch in reality when you are traveling down tha road your vehicle and trailer suspensions are going to travel up and down more than .5 inch. so there are times you are going to be cycling thru nose up and nose down more than you realize all the way to your destination. Towed thousand of miles for a living. .5 inch in reality is not going to matter. You can drive yourself crazy trying to find .5 inch and it is not going to matter. Drive it and see what the truck tells you. You will know in a very short distance which way works better for your setup
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Old 03-12-2013, 09:13 AM   #25
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evryone is stressing about .5 inch in reality when you are traveling down tha road your vehicle and trailer suspensions are going to travel up and down more than .5 inch. so there are times you are going to be cycling thru nose up and nose down more than you realize all the way to your destination. Towed thousand of miles for a living. .5 inch in reality is not going to matter. You can drive yourself crazy trying to find .5 inch and it is not going to matter. Drive it and see what the truck tells you. You will know in a very short distance which way works better for your setup
Actually, I have driven it both ways, and each has it's problems. With the front lower, I actually had wind and highway rut induced instability issues. Not severe instability mind you, but not the stable tow I was used to with the previous GMC 3/4 ton truck.

With the front high, I noticed the rear dragging more often, an obvious difference. However, the instability seem reduced, but I drove a different route with different road/wind conditions.

Neither of these trips/driving problems were real issues, but I just like to get things, especially hitch and tow vehicle setups, as good as I can get them. Oh, and not really "stressing", just discussing. :-)
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Old 03-12-2013, 01:27 PM   #26
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An important piece of information was not mentioned.

When loaded for a trip:

Is the truck level when the trailer is attached?

Is there any change in the truck level between trailer nose high and trailer nose down?

Is there any difference in the truck front axle loading between trailer nose high or low?
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Old 03-12-2013, 02:54 PM   #27
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Quote:
When loaded for a trip:

Is the truck level when the trailer is attached?
Actually, it's a little low in the rear because I removed the 1 1/2" of lifting blocks. Unloaded the truck with camper cover and other light weight stuff I allways carry in there, the fender measurement in the rear is 1" higher than the front.

Quote:
Is there any change in the truck level between trailer nose high and trailer nose down?
No.

Quote:
Is there any difference in the truck front axle loading between trailer nose high or low?
Not that I can measure with the tape, i.e. I adjusted the jacks on the bars in each case to get the same returned ride height as before attaching the trailer, and before you ask, no I have not weighed it.
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Old 03-12-2013, 03:43 PM   #28
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The answer to this is, "yes and no." As far as the trailer itself is concerned, it's not part of the tongue weight. But there is a difference between "tongue weight" and "receiver load capacity."

Most trailer owner's manuals call the "tongue weight" the actual load carried by the trailer tongue. Most tow vehicle owner's manuals call the reciver load capacity a "tongue weight." The two "tongue weight" terms are NOT synonymous. As an extreme example, if you put a cargo box on your receiver, and started filling it with bricks, you'd soon reach your tow vehicle's "tongue weight" capacity, even though you haven't hooked up a trailer tongue at all.

So, as far as your tow vehicle is concerend , consider the weight of the ProPride hitch as part of the receiver load capacity; it's still a weight supported by the reciever, even though it's not part of the trailer tongue.
IMO, this is the correct answer. But my question was if Steve had any extra TW to move to the rear to lighten, and thus raise the front of the
AS. Sounds like...no is the answer. I'd opt for toungue down slightly.
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