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11-20-2006, 04:59 PM
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#1
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4 Rivet Member
1977 31' Sovereign
Miami
, Florida
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 279
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Hitch extension
I have a 1500 Avalanche TV. I will be towing a 30'AS. I want to take a motorcycle or scooters in the bed of the truck. They only fit with the gate down. I think I can work it out with only a 6" to 12" extension. Does any one have any experiance with this or simimilar set ups?
Thanks Phil
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11-20-2006, 05:06 PM
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#2
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Rivet Master
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 932
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An extention will lower the weight rating of a hitch alot, check with the extention manufacturer for rating and allowable tounge weight. your trailer dry weighs about 4640 pounds with a tounge weight of 415, check it when loaded and make sure with the extention you will be within rated limits
Good luck.
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11-20-2006, 05:44 PM
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#3
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Rivet Master
1967 26' Overlander
Huntsville
, Alabama
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 3,018
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A new twist - Horizontal extension
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Gobie
... They only fit with the gate down. I think I can work it out with only a 6" to 12" extension...
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That's a cool question that I never considered.
Since you have a relatively low tongue weight (compared to nowadays), if your weight distributing bars are equal to the task I think you could swing a horizontal extension which puts your Airstream further away from the tow vehicle.
The way I'm seeing it, proper weight distribution somewhat negates the distance the towed load is from the tow vehicle.
Of course I am open to other opinions. Anyone?
Tom
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11-20-2006, 05:53 PM
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#4
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Retired Moderator
1992 29' Excella
madison
, Wisconsin
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 4,644
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will the bike/scooter fit if you lower the front gate on the avalanche?
i would try to stay away from an extension because of the added slop another connection could create.
perhaps a custom built longer drawbar could work.
john
__________________
you call them ferrets, i call them weasels.
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11-20-2006, 06:18 PM
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#5
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Rivet Master
2003 22' International CCD
Kiln
, Mississippi
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,779
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Look at the extension as a load extended out on a lever arm. Small changes in weight and distance can and will move mountains - ask the Egyptians. May not sound like much - 6" or 12" - but factor in the weights you are dealing with and the vehicle dynamics (road conditions, momentum, force in turns, etc...) and the end result could be dangerous for you and other vehicles involved.
The extensions I have seen were for bike racks and such - NOT TOWING AN AIRSTREAM. Having someone manufacture one only leads me to ask - if there is a market then why hasn't anyone else done it?
I say - don't do it. There are tail gate cable stops to allow you to open the tail gate partially without letting it down onto the jack.
__________________
Michael & Tina with Layla and Preston BZ The family has grown. 2003 22' INTERNATIONAL CCD
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11-20-2006, 06:51 PM
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#6
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Rivet Master
2006 25' Safari FB SE
St. Cloud
, Minnesota
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 13,280
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Clancy_boy would get my vote. Folks that have used the AirRide hitch have mentioned abandoning it due to the significant flexing brought on by the extra length.
A more serious issue comes with failures and GM hitch receivers breaking. Extra stress sure can't be good for them! You may need to look further than this link, but I have been seeing it mentioned occasionally this last year.
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11-20-2006, 07:25 PM
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#7
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More than one rivet loose
Currently Looking...
Los Alamos
, New Mexico
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,756
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Can you mount a front hitch? Wally did. Carried a scooter.
I was considering it until Irolled my truck. No Motorcycle for me for a while.
__________________
Michelle TAC MT-0
Sarah, Snowball
Looking for a 1962 Flying Cloud
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11-20-2006, 07:33 PM
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#8
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Rivet Master
1977 31' Sovereign
1963 26' Overlander
1989 34' Excella
Johnsburg
, Illinois
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,944
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Moving the pivot point of the tow package back 12 inches will increase the torque put on the unit when a truck passes. This will make the unit more likely to be pushed into a sway situation and cause a torque to try and push you off the road. I would not use it even if you put a antisway hitch on the rig.
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11-20-2006, 09:37 PM
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#9
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Moderator Emeritus
1964 26' Overlander
1978 Argosy Minuet 6.0 Metre
Anna
, Illinois
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 5,708
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Hitch extension
Greetings Phil!
I would be very cautious about considering a draw bar that moves the hitch head further from the rear axle of the tow vehicle. Even the modest extra length of the Reese drawbar that was designed to move the hitch head rearward far enough to permit the LP tanks to clear the rear mounted spare on my G2500 GMC Van when encountering tight turns created instability issues. When I upgraded to a full-size Jeep Grand Wagoneer, the instability went from a small concern to a large concern -- as the "twitching" became frequent. I couldn't believe that such a seemingly small amount of extra length could make that much difference; but when an experienced Reese hitch installer looked at my system, his first question was "Why are you towing with the drawbar designed for vans and SUVs with rear door mounted spares?" The difference was tremendous when the hitch was switched back to the normal drawbar.
The Jeep was later replaced by a K1500 Z71 Chevrolet pickup, and somehow I managed to get the old van's setup installed on the Z71, and it was even worse than the Jeep from the standpoint of instability -- again, switching back to the standard drawbar significantly improved the towing characteristics.
Good luck with your investigation!
Kevin
__________________
Kevin D. Allen
WBCCI (Lifetime Member)/VAC #7864
AIR #827
1964 Overlander International
1978 Argosy Minuet 6.0 Metre
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11-20-2006, 09:53 PM
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#10
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Rivet Master
Currently Looking...
West of Fort Worth
, Texas
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 6,699
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Gobie
I have a 1500 Avalanche TV. I will be towing a 30'AS. I want to take a motorcycle or scooters in the bed of the truck. They only fit with the gate down. I think I can work it out with only a 6" to 12" extension. Does any one have any experiance with this or simimilar set ups?
Thanks Phil
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I'm not familiar with the Avalanche tailgate set up. Is it like a regular pick-up? Could you simply remove it, or do you need the tailgate to support the bikes? Or as posted earlier, leave it partially open.
The consensus seems to be (and I agree) that you may be adding too much leverage with an extention. If you head that direction, make sure you research it thoroughly.
Dave
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11-20-2006, 10:13 PM
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#11
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INSANITY CENTRAL
1986 32' Excella
Airstream Funeral Coach
Citrus Heights
, California
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,108
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personal experience
Phil, I have a 86-32' excella about 7800 lbs, TV 93 -454- burb. 7 3/4" of my hitch bar is captured by the female receiver mounted to the truck. 14 1/2" from the reciever to the center of the ball. The receiver is rated for 10K weight distribution, I have an old Eaz-lift set up. round bars and chains. The hitchbar was extended to allow opening of the two rear doors of the burb while hooked to the AS. I have NO ILL handling at any time while pulling, NO SWAY, NO SUCKED IN BY SEMIS, NO CROSSWIND MOTION.NO BRAKING PROBLEMS NO PROBLEMS AT ALL!! This is working for me. True Story Tim
__________________
www.popasmoke.com
Proud Appellation American
Vine View Heights is now closed.
YETI ( 65 Quart )
IGLOO (Ice Cube, 50 Quart )
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11-21-2006, 04:55 AM
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#12
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4 Rivet Member
1977 31' Sovereign
Miami
, Florida
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 279
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Thanks for the replys
In regards to the tailgate/bike I need the extra length to fit the bike. I can do it with the scooters but the motorcycles are too long. I am considering cutting a tailgate in half just for this set up. I was also thinking about cutting or removing the jack off and bringing a floor jack? I also thought that the Avalanche's very short bed puts the hitch closer to the axil and the effects my be less than other trucks with longer beds. As for the front hitch, I have not been able to find one that is made for the Avalanche. I had one made and I am having it strengthened and it will be fine for light loads like a light scooter, bikes and such.
Thanks for the replys, I have been reading other threads as well and there are a lot of considerations that would not have occured to me!
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11-21-2006, 05:50 AM
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#13
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Rivet Master
1977 31' Sovereign
1963 26' Overlander
1989 34' Excella
Johnsburg
, Illinois
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,944
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How much does the motocycle weight? You only have a 150 light duty truck. With the hitch weight of the Airstream added and also extended back further, you are really going to be putting alot of weight on the back wheels and lightening the load on the front steering wheels, unless you really overdo the Weight distribution weight shifting. Even with that, you are still overdoing the lateral loads and the 150 does not have very stiff sidwalls on the tires and the wheel base is not the best. Don't do, it unless you are only driving less than 50 mph on side roads with no trucks passing you.
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11-21-2006, 06:06 AM
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#14
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Rivet Master
Vintage Kin Owner
1977 31' Excella 500
Berkeley Springs
, West Virginia
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,637
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The moment arm you care about could be taken two ways; either from the front axle, or the back axle.
Now that I think about it, you'd take it from the front axle and measure the reaction at the rear axles. So say the wheel base is 10 feet, and the hitch is 3' behind the back axle, and the hitch weight is 400lbs. You have a moment of (10+3 feet)*400lbs = 5200 ft-lbs. The vertical load on your back axle from this is then 5200 ft-lbs / 10 feet = 520 lbs.
OK, so you move it back a foot. Now your moment arm is 14 feet * 400 lbs = 5600 ft-lbs, and your vertical reaction at the back axle is 5600/10=560 lbs. So in the vertical plane it's basically nothing.
For stability, you'd have to do the same math but side to side. Your truck is supported at the front and back axles. It's basically like a big beam hooked at the front and trying to sweep the back around. You could also look at it as pivoted at the back axle and trying to sweep the front around. I'm not sure what the critical values are, but this is the basic math of it. Hope it helps a little
__________________
- Jim
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12-03-2006, 01:51 PM
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#15
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4 Rivet Member
1977 31' Sovereign
Miami
, Florida
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 279
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I think I'm getting close now
We just picked up our new 77/31 AS (Avalanche 1500 with Michelin 10 ply tires TV). I have been reading the forums and talked to Reese for recommendations. I decided to go with the dual cam straight line model#66082. I bought it from Camping World and had there tec. install it. I towed the AS for about 200 miles with nothing, kept my speed down to 55 or 60. It actually did not feel to bad but wouldn't have wanted to do anything drastic. With the new Reese setup it tows amazingly well! I don't feel any push or sway with trucks passing. It tracks great through the turns. If money was no object I would have probably gone with the HaHa. So far I am very happy. I will keep reading and looking and maybe I will end up changing but for now it seems great I can't even fathom it being any better! I also am able to open the tailgate now while hitched up. This is a big plus for me because I want to be able to carry a motorcycle or scooter in the bed. I am planning on modifying a tailgate basically cutting the top or back corners off to allow for sharp turns with the tailgate down. Anyway thanks to everyones input and info here. It's been very helpful with this new adventure!
- Give karma
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12-03-2006, 05:34 PM
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#16
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Rivet Master
2006 30' Classic
Farmington
, New Mexico
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 826
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Have you concidered a Hensley hitch ?? This may solve 2 problems. A ha moves the the hitch bar back aprox 12" . Secondly this would correct the tendence to sway that will be magnified by just extending the shank. pieman
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12-03-2006, 05:56 PM
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#17
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Silver Mist
Currently Looking...
Riverhead
, New York
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,011
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Is it at all possible to fit the bike in the trailer?
__________________
Bob
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12-04-2006, 05:33 AM
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#18
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4 Rivet Member
1977 31' Sovereign
Miami
, Florida
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 279
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Bike in the trailer
Interesting that you ask. I my be able to fit one of our small scooters in through the door. But I met a guy with a 58 I think it was a 28'. he made a removable panel to the right of the door. It looked really nice. you had to look vary close to even seen the seems and used ss screws in a rivet pattern that when removed allowed for an opening about twice the door width! He was using it to haul a four wheeler. Thanks for the thought I will check it out for the scooters. Phil
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12-04-2006, 06:54 AM
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#19
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Aluminut
2004 25' Safari
.
, Illinois
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,477
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canoe stream
Clancy_boy would get my vote. Folks that have used the AirRide hitch have mentioned abandoning it due to the significant flexing brought on by the extra length.
A more serious issue comes with failures and GM hitch receivers breaking. Extra stress sure can't be good for them! You may need to look further than this link, but I have been seeing it mentioned occasionally this last year.
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I'm shocked by the Air Ride findings. I took a look at those fairly closely and in my case found that the extension was not all that much more than what I already have...though I'm not good a math, the measurements seems close.
The link to the RV.net site was a great link...of course after reading just the first 3 pages, I went out to the garage to look at what hitch my '04 has and it does not have the welded plate as was indicated on the 05s. It also seems that the flexing is not due to up and down which is where most of the movement comes from, but lateral movement in turns and such.
Am I concerned? Yup! Am I going to run out and swap hitches? Not yet. I've seen no issues so far, but if I do, I may opt to go with a Reese as I have on the SS.
Now to answer the question of the thread.... my answer would also be not to use an extender. For reasons I haven't thought of, but mostly due to what has been said here.
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12-04-2006, 07:11 AM
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#20
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4 Rivet Member
1964 17' Bambi II
Santa Cruz
, California
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 319
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Hi Phil,
For another option , check out http://www.torklift.com/ .
__________________
Mark
1964 17' Bambi II
2005 Dodge 2500 PowerWagon -5.7 Hemi
WBCCI #4207
AIR #11485
"you don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows" ~bob dylan
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