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Sean Woodruff · 07-02-2008, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2airishuman

hey sean,

have you taken any production photos?

it would be interesting to SEE one being welded, coated and assembled.

and we all can't visit the production facility (can we tour?) to watch.

which leads 2 the next question...

on what 4 square foot piece of the planet,

are the feet of the fella (or gal) doing the welding ?

cheers
2air'

There are welders in two places.... Marshall, MI and Flint, MI. But, the distance for travel to the Flint location is quickly making them my welder of choice. Marshall = 90 miles from my office. Flint = 6 miles from my office.

Great idea about the pictures of the process. I think I could even do a video of the steps. I'll have to start on that one.

Anyone is welcome to tour my facility but if you don't wait until I get inventory built up there won't be much to see. We literally take the parts off the truck from the powder coater and build and ship the same day at this point. Every time 3 or 4 go out the door there are that many orders filling in the schedule behind them. Once I get a load of all my parts at one time, that are in process, I'll get a video together of this place too.

2airishuman · 07-02-2008, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sean Woodruff

...Anyone is welcome to tour my facility...

ok, good info!

and we'll all look 4ward to the utubevideo...

BUT let's consider this hypothetical.

IF a member here happened to wander north for camping...

and just happened to find the production area near flint...

on a free day and with advanced warning...

would they be permitted to click a few pix...

of the sausage IN production?

michigan cherry pie will be mighty good soon....

cheers
2air'

Sean Woodruff · 07-02-2008, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2airishuman

ok, good info!

and we'll all look 4ward to the utubevideo...

BUT let's consider this hypothetical.

IF a member here happened to wander north for camping...

and just happened to find the production area near flint...

on a free day and with advanced warning...

would they be permitted to click a few pix...

of the sausage IN production?

michigan cherry pie will be mighty good soon....

cheers
2air'

We're an open book here unless you are a known orange conspirator...

We only do assembly here but we can get in the car and go to the laser cutter, the machine shop, the welder and the powder coater.

2airishuman · 07-02-2008, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sean Woodruff

We're an open book...we can get in the car and go to the laser cutter, the machine shop, the welder and the powder coater.

now THAT'S what i'm talking about!

but you left off the PIE stop afterward...

World's Largest Cherry Pie Battle

a pie battle to go with the hitch wars2come....

so how far away is the cherry hut, 150 miles or so...?

cherry hut in beulah

cheers
2air'

Michigan Cherry Pie

-4 cups fresh Montmorency or Balaton cherries or frozen unsweetened tart cherries
-1 cup dried tart cherries
-1/2 teaspoon almond extract
-1 cup granulated sugar
-2 tablespoons quick-cooking tapioca
-Pastry for two-crust, nine-inch pie
-1/4 teaspoon ground nutmeg
-1 tablespoon butter

Sean Woodruff · 07-02-2008, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2airishuman

so how far away is the cherry hut, 150 miles or so...?

cherry hut in beulah

It's more like 200 miles. I was just in Ludington, south of Beulah, this past weekend for the largest Gus Macker basketball tournament in the country. 900 teams of 4 playing on the beach.

I spent my summers growing up in Beulah at my grandparents cottage.

TomW · 07-02-2008, 06:11 PM

I think 2air wins this round.

Quote:

Originally Posted by commercial vendor

Unfortunately, every weld is independent of the next weld made on a different hitch.

"Independent" in a production environment is not acceptable to me. While I would prefer Americans having good jobs, you should consider a robot if your company can not guarantee consistent welds.

Tom

Sean Woodruff · 07-02-2008, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TomW

I think 2air wins this round.

I wasn't aware of being in a round to begin with.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TomW

"Independent" in a production environment is not acceptable to me. While I would prefer Americans having good jobs, you should consider a robot if your company can not guarantee consistent welds.

Tom

Anyone who has ever managed people will know that nothing is guaranteed with any of them doing anything. No matter how "good" they might be at what they do. If one believes otherwise it is delusional thinking. And, if a company DOES tell you they guarantee their work to be 100% defect free you might want to wonder what else they will lie to you about.

Maybe I should consider buying a robot and raising the price to that of a haha, $600+ more, to pay for it? I don't think that is necessary and I doubt the certified welders doing the job think it is necessary either.

TomW · 07-02-2008, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sean Woodruff

... Maybe I should consider buying a robot and raising the price to that of a haha, $600+ more, to pay for it? I don't think that is necessary and I doubt the certified welders doing the job think it is necessary either.

People will pay anything with the right marketing.

2air "won" the last round because you are here to market a product, and, as a consumer, he shot sizable holes (IMO) in your responses.

People do not want to hear about hitches having bad welds. I think you should do what is necesary to eliminate the situation from happening. Bargain shoppers are not looking at either your product or it's forerunners.

Tom

Sean Woodruff · 07-02-2008, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TomW

People will pay anything with the right marketing.

2air "won" the last round because you are here to market a product, and, as a consumer, he shot sizable holes (IMO) in your responses.

People do not want to hear about hitches having bad welds. I think you should do what is necesary to eliminate the situation from happening. Bargain shoppers are not looking at either your product or it's forerunners.

Tom

If I was here to market a product I wouldn't be doing it in a discussion with 2air'. I have an MBA in Marketing from one of the top 3 business schools in this country and what I am doing doesn't even come close to resembling marketing. 2air' isn't a consumer, he already owns a good hitch.

You obviously read something that is beyond my understanding. I didn't see 2air' shooting at all. I have had a number of quality discussions with him and never once felt he was shooting.

People don't want to hear the truth is the real problem. Most companies will just ignore any conversation about their product. As I said before, I don't have anything to hide and I'll talk about the good AND the bad. If it is only the good everyone wants to read, and believe, then again, that is delusional thinking.

Why would any person believe I am not doing whatever is necessary to eliminate ANY problems and produce a quality product? Doesn't that go without saying?

ROBERT CROSS · 07-02-2008, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by craftsman

The hitch is made to be left outside attached to your Airstream.

I've never read anywhere that the haha is meant to be left on
permanently, especially thru one of our Western N.Y. Winters.
Is it really that hard to take off? Leave it on the stinger, lift off the ball and drive it into the garage for storage, just reverse the process to re-install in the Spring. Took less than 1/2 hr last April.
Yes, the paint sucks. But I knew that when I bought it, truck bedliner on all the black parts and auto clear on the orange. When the rust starts, its off to the powder coater.
The cover that Hensley offers, keeps it out of the weather during the season. So far so good.

p.s. we like orange

RIstream'n · 07-02-2008, 09:30 PM

Nice job Sean. Keep building those quality ProPride hitches. Paint them better than you know who and take care of your customers better than you know who and the rest will take care of itself. If even the best supporter of their product like 2air says their customer service is lacking then.... Just as an outside observer it seems the Hensley people are so confident about their product they've become arrogant. I think you and your company are going to wake them up and/or do some big damage to their market share. That's just the way it is when someone comes along who does it better and cheaper. Good luck

2airishuman · 07-02-2008, 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RIstream'n

... If even the best supporter of their product ...

hey ri' looks like u LIKE the wide open west huh?

it's a whole new world this side of the big river, no?

just to be clear i AM a BIG supporter of the users of the product,

and perhaps those efforts from ALL of us users aren't fully realized by the home office...

what we've ALL done (4 them) in the haha thread, they couldn't afford to buy outright.

sean gets that i think and understands real users will report the good, bad and UGLY with the hope that many can benefit.

most folks report great customer service from haha land, but my standards are higher (or just different) than the average fella...

at this price range (2-3K$) a product really needs MORE than just performing as expected...

and DO need to be held accountable by those who folks over the moola.

competition will only make that notion a LARGER issue...

cheers
2air'

craftsman · 07-03-2008, 05:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS

I've never read anywhere that the haha is meant to be left on
permanently, especially thru one of our Western N.Y. Winters.
Is it really that hard to take off? Leave it on the stinger, lift off the ball and drive it into the garage for storage, just reverse the process to re-install in the Spring. Took less than 1/2 hr last April.
Yes, the paint sucks. But I knew that when I bought it, truck bedliner on all the black parts and auto clear on the orange. When the rust starts, its off to the powder coater.
The cover that Hensley offers, keeps it out of the weather during the season. So far so good.

p.s. we like orange

Oh? My instruction manual doesn't say to remove the hitch and protect it from the elements when not in use, or " requires additional coats of protective clear coat or automotive spray on bed liner to maintain the finish. The instructions should say " requires immediate repainting as the $3,000.00 cost does not allow for quality paint to be applied at the time of manufacturer" If it "should" be covered, maybe Hensley should include a cover.

RangerJay · 07-03-2008, 08:48 AM

This has been an interesting and entertaining thread - and I just gotta jump in ....

Everything - absolutely everything - about owning a trailer responds best to TLC ...

Right - the paint job could have been better - all right - a LOT better - but truly - I didn't pay good money for the colour - I paid good money for the performance - and to date - that has not been wanting - as for customer support? - I can only say that it has been terrific - on the 3 separate occasions that I have used it the service has been more than outstanding - quick to not just respond - but to respond with more than I expected.

I also paid a lot of money for an Airstream - seems to me it had a few issues that I would not have expected for the price - but they were dealt with - and I still love the trailer. It's due for a little more TLC today - wash and wax - the other day it was lubricating the television antenna - last week a new vent cover and repair to a stabilizer jack - there is always something and I love every minute of it .... and yes - I do take the Hensley off for the winter - clean it - lubricate it - paint it if necessary .... then stow it till spring ...

Next trip - 2nd of 5 this year - a week and a half away ....

Gotta love camping,

Jay

craftsman · 07-03-2008, 09:53 AM

Last post on the subject. Seems to me the bar for quality has been lowered to the point that a lot of people have become apathetic about quality. It must come from all the cheap imported furniture from companies like IKea and the tons of plastic junk , electronics and clothes made in China and sold in K-Marts,Walmarts and Targets. Low quality food from McDonalds and all the other fast food stores. There are quality products made in the U.S. but they're getting fewer and far between. I have a Martin HD28 , a great guitar that gets better every year. My attitude if the finish started peeling wouldn't be well ,I bought it for the great sound not the finish. I have a reasonable expectation that the finish won't fail and of quality workmenship along with a life time guarantee. This is why a company like ProPride will have an effect on Hensley sales. There'll be a number of people who are just looking for a cheaper price for similar performance but there are others that are looking for a quality product from start to finish.My 2006 Ford F350 sits outside in all kinds of weather and the finish still looks new. Does Ford have some proprietary secret of painting thats unavaliable to Hensley? Judging by the number of responses to the "Corrision " issue (452) and the number of people who have at least read that thread (26,009) it must have something to do with, the more you pay for a product, the more your concern about the failure of the finish. To those people , I say quit pi$$ing and moaning, you paid for the Airstream experience, not the finish. Fair?

overlander63 · 07-03-2008, 11:38 AM

I know the hitch is very expensive, but I have been looking at other items with "cheap" paint jobs, namely mechanics' tool boxes. They go for upwards of $10,000 for a good one, and are powder coated. In some instances, you can get the same tool box, with regular cheap paint, for a few hundred dollars less. The point of this is, maybe powder coating could be an option in the future, with the folks that are more interested in the hitch than the paint job can save a few hundred bucks and get standard (cheap) paint.

Sean Woodruff · 07-03-2008, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by overlander63

I know the hitch is very expensive, but I have been looking at other items with "cheap" paint jobs, namely mechanics' tool boxes. They go for upwards of $10,000 for a good one, and are powder coated. In some instances, you can get the same tool box, with regular cheap paint, for a few hundred dollars less. The point of this is, maybe powder coating could be an option in the future, with the folks that are more interested in the hitch than the paint job can save a few hundred bucks and get standard (cheap) paint.

The haha is powder coated. However, I have learned that powder coating is equal part art and science. It has to be done correctly to be any good.

I knew we had good powder coat on the ProPride 3P when I flipped a lower unit off the bench and on to the concrete floor. The thing bounced and didn't even put a ding in the paint.

ROBERT CROSS · 07-03-2008, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by craftsman

Oh? My instruction manual doesn't say to remove the hitch and protect it from the elements when not in use, or " requires additional coats of protective clear coat or automotive spray on bed liner to maintain the finish. The instructions should say " requires immediate repainting as the $3,000.00 cost does not allow for quality paint to be applied at the time of manufacturer" If it "should" be covered, maybe Hensley should include a cover.

Point well take'n..

But like I mentioned in my post, I knew what I was getting before purchasing and decided that the little extra effort on my part was well worth it. It's the outstanding performance, safety, and peace of mind that was the deciding factor.
As far as taking it off thru the winter, thats just a no-brainer here in Buffalo, wouldn't matter what it was coated with Mother Nature would eventually get to it.

How long have been using your haha? Can you post some pic's?

STREAM SAFE

overlander63 · 07-03-2008, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sean Woodruff

The haha is powder coated. However, I have learned that powder coating is equal part art and science. It has to be done correctly to be any good.

I knew we had good powder coat on the ProPride 3P when I flipped a lower unit off the bench and on to the concrete floor. The thing bounced and didn't even put a ding in the paint.

I know you can't answer current production questions, since you no longer are there (duh!), but was the orange a powder coat, or did that start with the black color?

RIstream'n · 07-03-2008, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2airishuman

most folks report great customer service from haha land, but my standards are higher (or just different) than the average fella...

at this price range (2-3K$) a product really needs MORE than just performing as expected...

and DO need to be held accountable by those who folks over the moola.

competition will only make that notion a LARGER issue...

cheers
2air'

My point exactly. And yes the west is great!! We've running around all over Arizona and Utah and in a few days we're headed to Colorado. It's been great, thanks for asking.