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Old 03-14-2010, 09:51 PM   #29
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2air,

Interesting comments about heavy diesel engines especially on pickups. Here you preach it that the truck in that configuration may not need much if any WD, but on that other thread when I suggested the same you (tried to) discredit me. Amazing. Maybe you saw the 'light', maybe you just say things. I do agree with you about rear end light trucks being higher and that settling some of that actually causes a truck to ride like a truck is built to ride, more level. That is why I am not a believer in the common measuring of wheel wheels to ground front and rear and then trying to get back there after hitching the trailer that is so common in the instructions of most hitches. Let the rear settle, let it ride more level, let it carry the weights on the rear axle that it was designed to do. It actually works better than empty as to handling of the truck.
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Old 03-14-2010, 10:13 PM   #30
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2air,

................................................
That is why I am not a believer in the common measuring of wheel wheels to ground front and rear and then trying to get back there after hitching the trailer that is so common in the instructions of most hitches. Let the rear settle, let it ride more level, let it carry the weights on the rear axle that it was designed to do. It actually works better than empty as to handling of the truck.
The Equal-i-zer hitch i used to have said to do that. However here is what I have always done. My truck rides a$$ high when empty. It makes sense to me that it was designed to ride level when loaded. When I hitch up with WD bars slack, the back end is low. I tension the WD bars until the truck is level ( rear and front fender wells equal height above ground. (The first time I did it, I adjusted the drop down on the hitch bar to level the trailer).

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Old 03-14-2010, 10:13 PM   #31
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My gosh. It seems incredible that a straight answer can't be found for all this.

You'd think an AS engineer would be able to help hear...or someone from HH or PP.

Geez.
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Old 03-14-2010, 10:20 PM   #32
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My gosh. It seems incredible that a straight answer can't be found for all this.

You'd think an AS engineer would be able to help hear...or someone from HH or PP.

Geez.
I would also think that one of those sources would be able and willing to help. That is why I am always amused* when people who want an answer come here first. Especially if they have read some of the previous threads and see where they all go.

By amused, I don't mean laughing at them. I am just chuckling, because I know where the discussion is going to go. I bet I could almost write the script.
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Old 03-14-2010, 10:52 PM   #33
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W7ts,

Agreed. I found the same thing with my Equalizer hitch. I have 1200 bars and only tension to level or almost level. Works perfectly without all the measuring stuff. I raised this issue with Progress Mfg. (the makers of the Equalizer hitch) and asked them why they did not specify tension values measured by holes in the L bar under tension or some other measure instead of measuring front/rear before/after stuff. No reply. As more and more tow with diesels it will become an issue as there is no way that some of the tongue weight should be added to the already very heavy front axle on a diesel pickup. And for most pickups the axle bias is way different front/rear empty so adding tongue weight to the rear axle is good. Adding some to the TT axles is probably good, too. Some folks have vehemently disagreed with me often citing one method fits all manufacturer's instructions that cover everything from one ton trucks to Tundras and Explorers. One method of dialing in the hitch doesn't work for all vehicles. On hitches like the Equalizer there has to be some tension for the sway to work. The sway will work less if tension is less, not at all if tension is basically not at all, so I think it would be a very valid question to get answered by the manufacturer as to how much tension is needed for their sway to function. As I have used the hitch, I am becomming less and less of a believer that the Equalizer is really a significant sway mitigation hitch. Very little friction is in the L brackets so it all has to be mitigated in the sockets. I am not real sure about sway mitigation advertising vs reality.
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Old 03-14-2010, 10:58 PM   #34
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My gosh. It seems incredible that a straight answer can't be found for all this...
'bud...

IF u dig around there actually are "straight" answers posted here on several hitches DIRECTLY by the hitch makers and their staff...

in particular the EQ' brand has provided some very clear answers here on bar selection and hitch rating choices.

very specific.

haha and pp have also done that.

but once those VERY specific recommendations have been offered (i can provide the links if u need them)

someone comes along with a "yes butt" or objection that really doesn't apply...

or a hugely ODD rig combination...

or tries to destroy the hitch makers advice by suggesting "airstreams are different"...

so there's NOT much point in the vendors REPEATING their advice in several threads.

also they've got their OWN forums and might do that on their OWN websites.


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Originally Posted by jmtandem View Post
...Interesting comments about heavy diesel engines especially on pickups...
'tandem u must be reading another thread

because there's nothing in my post suggests ANYTHING about the "heavy diesel engine" impacting hitch or w/d bar selection.

and the thread u make reference to is linked below

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f463...ngs-60922.html

i stand by the comments there,

and leave to others who wanna WASTE TIME to read the silliness and decide 4 themselves.

the truck YOU reference is a 1 ton, 6 wheel thing and with a smaller trailer.

it is NOT the topic of this thread...

cheers
2air'
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Old 03-14-2010, 11:26 PM   #35
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Ken,

Your script outline may include an honest inquiry, honest opinions and experience, seat-of-the-pants opinions based on experience, surefooted opinions and arrogance, argument, and ridicule and cartoons.

It remains unclear why some Airstreams are incurring damage, and others are not.

Little opportunity for discussion.

The original poster is astonished and bewildered after a couple hundred entries.
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Old 03-14-2010, 11:29 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by Aquabud View Post
My gosh. It seems incredible that a straight answer can't be found for all this.

You'd think an AS engineer would be able to help hear...or someone from HH or PP.

Geez.
A lot of the smoke and mirrors is because of product liability concerns. Nobody dares give a straight answer, because somebody will use that info. and there will be a problem, and the lawyers will come 'calling.
The nearest thing you'll probably get is the "you can handle up to a 1000 pound tongue weight with this setup" statement from some of the WD manufacturers.
If it weren't for the litigious society in which we live, many manufacturers would be happy to give you their best recommendations.

And I'm sure the above is one of the answers given in many of these same threads...
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Old 03-15-2010, 02:57 AM   #37
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Great Discussion

I really appreciate all the thoughtful replies.

The thread http://www.airforums.com/forums/f463...ngs-60922.html is absolutely worth reading on this subject. Thanks so much 2Air for the link.

I understand the physics much better now and the correct process as:
- Test drive unloaded TV and pay attention to steering and front end control
- Weigh unloaded TV front and rear axles
- Weigh loaded AS tongue and wheel weight (sans the TV)
- Attach AS to TV and re-weigh front and rear axles
- Test drive TV with AS attached before adding WD tension and pay attention to steering and front end control
- Add WD tension as required to restore lost weight to front end if required to restore steering and front end control
- Do not exceed hitch manufacturer recommendations on WD tension for tongue weight

Would others agree or disagree?
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Old 03-15-2010, 07:32 AM   #38
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I really appreciate all the thoughtful replies.

The thread http://www.airforums.com/forums/f463...ngs-60922.html is absolutely worth reading on this subject. Thanks so much 2Air for the link.

I understand the physics much better now and the correct process as:
- Test drive unloaded TV and pay attention to steering and front end control
- Weigh unloaded TV front and rear axles
- Weigh loaded AS tongue and wheel weight (sans the TV)
- Attach AS to TV and re-weigh front and rear axles
- Test drive TV with AS attached before adding WD tension and pay attention to steering and front end control
- Add WD tension as required to restore lost weight to front end if required to restore steering and front end control
- Do not exceed hitch manufacturer recommendations on WD tension for tongue weight

Would others agree or disagree?
Sounds like a workable plan 'ta me.
The road tests to get a feel for a properly set up rig is a good plan....but do it SAFELY away from traffic, may be difficult due to the location of most CAT scales.

One other point....it's most important that the trailer be level while towing.

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Old 03-15-2010, 09:18 AM   #39
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Go online and look at Google maps of the locations of all the scales in your area, and try to find one that has an isolated access road nearby. We did this with ours, there was a road that went straight out from town for about 3 miles, and there was a county park at that spot with a big parking lot to stop and turn around in.
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Old 03-15-2010, 09:21 AM   #40
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2air,

No, I think the thread I was refering to was "Do I need sway". You are leaning toward another thread, but perhaps it also has the same comments by many. As this subject comes up the comments tend to be the same. Andy on one hand working thru 40 years of issues and problems with Airstreams and those on the other that think it best to just use the hitch manufacturer's recommendations. Even Sean to my knowledge has not weighed in on this lesser spring bar issue for heavier duty trucks and he is pretty good about sharing info as appropriate. Everybody has their lawyers telling them what not to say in case that advise comes back to bite them.
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Old 03-15-2010, 11:29 AM   #41
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HA experiences

I have a 1999 25 foot safari with a Hensley.Yes it is expensive but guarnteed for life.I have never felt sway pulling even in very high winds and heavy fast semi traffic.I have put thousands and thousands of miles on it.It's 12 years old and performs beautifully.I've never had any damage to the frame or the alum. panels.It has saved I'm sure us from jack -knifing my rig.I pull it with a GMC half ton with a big 8. I always think some people think I'm crazy for paying so much.But the guy Andy Thomas of CAn-Am RV in London recommended it for my safari.I've never regretted the expense.I live close enough to the Hensley factory to visit it.THey replaced some parts last summer at no expense.I've very happy and I hope your anti-sway hitch works as well as mine.One last note/My wife is a great driver and drives our rig most of time.Part of it she feels very confident in our Hensley.THat it will not sway.It pulls straight as an arrow without any sway. Thanks for letting me share drjjta@hotmail.com
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Old 03-15-2010, 11:31 AM   #42
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Even Sean to my knowledge has not weighed in on this lesser spring bar issue for heavier duty trucks and he is pretty good about sharing info as appropriate.

I always recommend the rating, or greater, to handle the loaded tongue weight.

If an owner is going to have 800# of tongue weight I will recommend a 1000# system and NOT the 800#. The 800# would work but I think the owner would be happier with the distribution of the 1000# bars.

In all the years I have been doing this I have yet to hear of even ONE hitch owner report a damaged trailer. Of course, my recommendations apply to either the haha or PP hitch. I do not have enough experience with the Reese hitch to counter Andy, and what he knows about bar ratings, so I would tend to default to him on that hitch design. As an engineer, his opinion on that hitch design makes sense to me.

Now that I've chimed, I've probably only muddied the water because someone is going to say I'm waffling between the two opinions. I'm not. I'm only giving you my opinion based on what I do EVERY DAY and not offering it as an argument spark.



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