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06-25-2016, 02:49 PM
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#1
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2 Rivet Member
2015 25' FB Flying Cloud
Glen Burnie
, Maryland
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 36
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Help, I think I'm overhitched!
When I took delivery of my 2015 25’ FC FB, the dealer installed an Equal-i-zer hitch with #1000 bars. My 2007 Dodge Ram 2500 already rides like a lumber wagon and I realized right away that the bars were too stiff for the trailer.
I’ve since upgraded the Airstream to 16” LTX tires which smoothed things out considerably, but it’s still a harsh ride. I recently tuned the rig and ended up with 7 washers (!) to get everything balanced properly. L brackets are in the neutral position but the bars have about an inch or so of bend as you can see in the pictures.
I’m considering a trunnion hitch like the Reese Dual Cam or Blue Ox but I’m unsure about how much spring rate I need in the bars to still get adequate weight distribution and a better ride for my setup. Inland Andy recommends #550 bars for a 3/4 ton truck but I wonder if I might need something a little stiffer? My calculated tongue weight is a little north of 800 lbs. (15%).
Any suggestions for how I should proceed? I imagine it would be difficult to return a set of bars to etrailer if they don’t work for me.
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06-25-2016, 03:15 PM
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#2
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Rivet Master
1991 34' Excella
Princeton
, New Jersey
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 7,070
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800 Lbs with the Reese Straight Line not the Dual Cam. Straigth Line is much easier to adjust as time goes by. Pay attention to the possible contact between the bars and the outside yokes when backing up. If the hit change setup to clear or as I did reverse the yoke attachment on the tongue before I changed to an Andersen.
__________________
WBCCI 12156 AIR 3144 WACHUNG TAC NJ6
2004 Excursion 4x4
1991 34 ft. Excella +220,000 miles, new laminated flooring, new upholstery, new 3200 lbs axles
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06-25-2016, 03:59 PM
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#3
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4 Rivet Member
1991 25' Excella
Stanfield
, Oregon
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 317
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With an 2500 you dont need to worry about the weight transfer as much. Id go with a lighter bar or a different hitch like the Anderson wd hitch.
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06-25-2016, 07:48 PM
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#4
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Rivet Master
1986 34' Limited
1975 27' Overlander
1969 21' Globetrotter
Conifer
, Colorado
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 8,278
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You didn't mention if you had made the trip to the truck scales yet. And I also wonder if your hitch did get your tow vehicle back to sitting pretty level.
Measure the height of your front fender wheel well lips to level pavement without the trailer but with your gear in the back and record. Weigh each axle of your tow vehicle without the trailer but with typical travel gear loaded in it and record the results. Then hitch up without any load on the bars and weigh again as well as weighing the trailer axles. Finally load the bars so your vehicle front fender wheel well lip is pretty close to what it was without the trailer. Now drive over the scales and get the weights again. How much tongue weight did you distribute to the front axle?
It seems to me that 7 washers is too much tilt on the hitch head. I think you want the bars pretty parallel to the trailer frame members when the hitch is loaded.
Is the ride better if you drop the bars and pull the trailer over typical roads? Heavy duty pickups sometimes ride better with a heavy load in the bed. Like you said, our heavy duty trucks ride rough, especially unloaded. I understand shock absorber change on our trucks can improve the ride considerably. Maybe your truck is an off road set up coming with very stiff shocks?
The equalizer hitch relies on friction for sway control. I find mine works well enough. In the old days of softly sprung tow vehicles, you could drop 800 pounds on the rear bumper and the front tires would almost be off the pavement! Poor steering control! Thus weight distributing hitches were invented. As suggested, I do run the bars a little less loaded than ideal just to smooth the ride, and my truck can handle the tongue weight load. (No, the front tires do not come off the road!)
David
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06-25-2016, 09:57 PM
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#5
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Rivet Master
2015 25' FB Eddie Bauer
2013 25' FB Eddie Bauer
2012 20' Flying Cloud
Small Town
, *** Big Sky Country ***Western Montana
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,860
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Read my EQ bar modification to save you $$.
__________________
2015 25' Eddie Bauer Int'l FBQ / 2023 Ford Lightning ER
2022 Ford F350 6.2 V-8; equalizer hitch + Shocker air hitch
Honda Eu3200; AIR# 44105; formerly WBCCI 2015.1
Terminal Aluminitis; 2-people w/ 3+ dogs
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06-25-2016, 10:08 PM
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#6
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3 Rivet Member
2012 25' FB Flying Cloud
Boise
, Idaho
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 205
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I would start by moving your L brackets as far back on the trailer frame to the maximum recommended. Adjust from there
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06-26-2016, 08:55 AM
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#7
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2 Rivet Member
2015 25' FB Flying Cloud
Glen Burnie
, Maryland
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 36
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Thanks for all the great replies!
Yes, I do need to weigh the rig now. Hope to do it soon - there's a CAT scale near me but the folks who run it are not very helpful (full price for reweigh, etc.) so I've been putting it off.
Here are the CAT numbers I got on my weigh back from FL back in Feb. This was a slightly different setup - 4 washers and L-brackets up one notch:
Steer: 3800
Drive: 4380
Trailer: 5820
TOTAL: 14,000
In this most recent adjustment I went 'by the book' and measured the truck's front wheel wells and the trailer's front and rear corners one foot in. I was able to get the front WW to drop back about halfway from the highest measurement, so technically this setup is 'spot on'. The truck normally rakes front to rear and this setup preserves that. The trailer is perfectly level after I raised the hitch a notch. New shocks were installed a few months ago.
I agree that there's too much head tilt. With the bars this tight, there's really not much compliance in them at all. In time, I may bend the A-frame.
I never thought of moving the L-brackets back - that would allow the bars to flex more, but I'd have to be careful. Too much, and a tight turn while backing could be disastrous!
I'll play around with it some more and give you an update in a couple of days - thanks again!!
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06-26-2016, 09:19 AM
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#8
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Rivet Master
2014 25' FB Eddie Bauer
Vero Beach
, Florida
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 693
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A couple of thoughts from another Equal-I-zer owner...
In the pic, your trailer looks nose low to me. I would start by finding a very level spot and parking the rig then measuring for level (front to back) using the trailer floor between the axles as the measure point. If you are nose low, first raise the ball on the shank. Nothing else works right if you are not running the trailer level when on level ground.
As others have said, if you think the ride is hard, you want fewer washers, not more. You may also try reducing the tire air pressure on the trailer by a bit. My 16" Michelin LTX MS2 are rated up to 80 psi cold. I ran that way for a while but now prefer 70 psi. It's easier on everything. There is also a lot here n Airforums about truck tire air pressure. You can lay all of the opinions on that subject end-to-end and they don't reach to a conclusion. I run my rear tires (Bridgestone Duelers) at their max 44 psi cold. Other Forum users say they like their particular combination f truck, trailer, hitch and tires to run at the truck manufacturers normal pressure. I'm just guessing, but from what you're driving and what you report on the ride you are more likely to be happy at normal pressure as reported on the truck's door pillar sticker on all 4 tires... Just a guess.
The readings from a CAT scale are really only useful if you take three passes. 1.) Just the truck (I do mine with full fuel and all the camping gear plus passengers or deadweight to simulate passengers); 2. The truck and trailer with the weight bars in the bed so there is no weight distribution effect from the hitch; and 3.) truck and trailer with weight bars in place as you would travel when camping.
The comparison of these three passes lets you see the individual axle weights, gross combination weight, gross vehicle weight, gross trailer weight, tongue weigh, WD effect to the front truck axle, WD effect to the trailer axles, etc. one pass doesn't give you that.
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06-26-2016, 09:22 AM
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#9
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Rivet Master
2006 23' Safari SE
I'm In
, Kentucky
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 4,251
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Powerarrangr
Thanks for all the great replies!
I never thought of moving the L-brackets back - that would allow the bars to flex more, but I'd have to be careful. Too much, and a tight turn while backing could be disastrous!
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My L-Brackets are set to the maximum. For the most part, everything is fine, but taking a very sharp turn will allow a bar to slide out of the bracket. This has happened once going forward, tight turn to get to a gas pump. It happened backing up into a tight space. No harm done, it's a pretty sharp angle, nothing you can do at any kind of speed. When it comes out you just have to jack it up again and put the bar back inside the retaining clip.
__________________
-Rich
Rich & Yvonne
2006 Safari SE -Dora-
2004 4Runner SE 4.7L V8
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06-26-2016, 10:34 AM
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#10
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Rivet Master
2006 25' Safari FB SE
Spokane
, Washington
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,843
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Another Equalizer Owner
I believe 7 washers is too much. These bars should not show an obvious bend to them. I agree, you look over hitched.
You can remove the stiffness by reducing the number of washers, lowering the L brackets, or doing both. After doing this, you might have to move the ball up to return the trailer to level. I don't agree with an earlier post to measure the frame between the wheels. This is the pivot point. You have to measure the frame towards the front and then again towards the back to check for level. You can use the measurement between the axles as a target I suppose.
When I purchased my trailer the PO had the brackets moved up. In my case both of the pins were bent. I got out the directions and found an optimum distance for the L brackets. I moved them and purchased new pins and after 6 years and about 30K miles, everything is better.
Make sure you weigh the set up. Taking too much weight off the front truck axle is not a good thing. Oh, if you haven't already done so, look at the directions for setting up the hitch. They were pretty helpful. You can download them from the Equalizer website.
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06-26-2016, 12:04 PM
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#11
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4 Rivet Member
2009 28' International
Pacific Palisades
, California
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 436
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As yet another happy Equalizr owner, all good advice.
First, check trailer level and adjust by moving ball height as required.
Next, measure truck at front wheeland rear wheel wells and make a note.
3rd, attach trailer w no bars, and re measure front and rear wheel wells. When WD applied, front wheel well height should be about halfway between unhitched and hitched with no WD. Never put on so much WD that front wheel well height is below unhitched height.
Adjyst your L brackets up and down first (it's faster) until you get the right amount of WD as described in 3rd.
5th, once you count how many holes you had to lower L bracket to achieve this, put the L brackets back to where they were and remove the same number if spacers that you had to adjust the L brackets by. (Equalizr says that one spa ER approx equals one hole in the L brackets.) totally agree that 7 is extreme-you'll probably end up between 4 and 6.
Double check that trailer is level and your good to go!
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06-26-2016, 12:59 PM
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#12
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Rivet Master
2010 25' FB Flying Cloud
Currently Looking...
Laramie
, Wyoming
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 829
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I have the 90000600 Equal-I-zer hitch on our 25 FB FC. Our TV is a 2500 HD DMAX. This setup has worked perfectly for 7 years and thousands of miles. Too light for many "experts" but not for Andy at Inland or me.
__________________
Antique Pedaler
2021 Caravel 20 FB
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06-26-2016, 01:14 PM
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#13
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Rivet Master
2012 23' FB International
Woodstock
, Ontario
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,423
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I would think Inland would lend you the 550 # bars for a trial run. My initial reaction was 1000# bars are way to stiff for a 3/4 ton truck and a 25 Foot FB. I run 1000# bars on my '96 Classic 25' on a Dakota with the Hensley Arrow. The Dakota has an additional rear leaf and re-curved springs. I towed my '89 25 Classic with Reese hitch and 750# bars. They were too light for the standard springs so the additional leaf was proposed as a better fix to evidence of straining of the hitch and frame than just beefing up the hitch head and attachment.
JCW
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06-26-2016, 01:29 PM
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#14
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Rivet Master
2015 25' Flying Cloud
2016 30' Flying Cloud
Blenheim Ontario
, Ontario
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 1,263
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Powerarrangr
When I took delivery of my 2015 25’ FC FB, the dealer installed an Equal-i-zer hitch with #1000 bars. My 2007 Dodge Ram 2500 already rides like a lumber wagon and I realized right away that the bars were too stiff for the trailer.
I’ve since upgraded the Airstream to 16” LTX tires which smoothed things out considerably, but it’s still a harsh ride. I recently tuned the rig and ended up with 7 washers (!) to get everything balanced properly. L brackets are in the neutral position but the bars have about an inch or so of bend as you can see in the pictures.
I’m considering a trunnion hitch like the Reese Dual Cam or Blue Ox but I’m unsure about how much spring rate I need in the bars to still get adequate weight distribution and a better ride for my setup. Inland Andy recommends #550 bars for a 3/4 ton truck but I wonder if I might need something a little stiffer? My calculated tongue weight is a little north of 800 lbs. (15%).
Any suggestions for how I should proceed? I imagine it would be difficult to return a set of bars to etrailer if they don’t work for me.
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Last year, I traded in MY 2015 25'FB for a 2016 30' FC DUE to the 25 ft'er being uncomfortable and UN suitable.
It HAD the Equalizer hitch installed by Andy at CanAm, which seemed alright
I decided to go for a Reese dual cam for the newer FC and swapped them.
BAD MOVE!
The TV, a Ford F 150 wiggles down the highway like a snake that's tied to a lamp cord.
And to remove it requires a small scissor jack to release the second chain.
Next week the FC GOES back to CanAm to have the Reese removed and the Equalizer reinstalled.
BTW: The 30'er is comfortable and just perfect for the two of us Even the wife is happy in it, and she had been my grouchy critic in the past.
Part of the learning curve, I guess.
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06-26-2016, 01:55 PM
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#15
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"Cloudsplitter"
2003 25' Classic
Houstatlantavegas
, Malebolgia
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 19,977
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.......Here are the CAT numbers I got on my weigh back from FL back in Feb. This was a slightly different setup - 4 washers and L-brackets up one notch:
Steer: 3800
Drive: 4380
Trailer: 5820
TOTAL: 14,000
You'll need a TV alone weight, loaded for camping, full fuel.....a hitched weight with no WD and a weight with WD set.
Our Burb...
Then a weight with NO WD.............................................and a weight with WD set.
Notice that with WD set our steering axle weight is within 100lb of the TV alone steering axle weight. with a LEVEL TV & AS.
Sweet Streams...
Bob
__________________
"You don't know where you've been until you leave, enjoy life" RLC
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06-26-2016, 02:10 PM
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#16
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4 Rivet Member
2015 25' Flying Cloud
GILBERT
, Arizona
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 377
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We use the ANDERSON hitch, did 9,000 miles last season without a problem, (The ground-breaking Andersen "No-Sway" "No-Bounce" Weight Distribution Hitch).
Wife can hook-up and un-hook, I really like it.
__________________
David & Nancy Ames
WBCCI # 9403 -- AIR # 95597
2015 FC 25' RB
2013 Chevy Tahoe LTZ
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06-26-2016, 02:27 PM
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#17
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Rivet Master
1976 31' Sovereign
Oswego
, Illinois
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,017
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MelGoddard
Last year, I traded in MY 2015 25'FB for a 2016 30' FC DUE to the 25 ft'er being uncomfortable and UN suitable.
It HAD the Equalizer hitch installed by Andy at CanAm, which seemed alright
I decided to go for a Reese dual cam for the newer FC and swapped them.
BAD MOVE!
The TV, a Ford F 150 wiggles down the highway like a snake that's tied to a lamp cord.
And to remove it requires a small scissor jack to release the second chain.
Next week the FC GOES back to CanAm to have the Reese removed and the Equalizer reinstalled.
BTW: The 30'er is comfortable and just perfect for the two of us Even the wife is happy in it, and she had been my grouchy critic in the past.
Part of the learning curve, I guess.
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If you are saying need jack to release pressure on bars to disconnect, just do as every body else does, use power jack mounted to front of a frame, raise enough to take weight off bars, or else I don't understand release second chain. If having sway prob. Reese dual cam is either not installed properly or set up properly. I have used old style Reese dual cam since 1977 and never have had sway prob. NEVER even at 70 mph plus. Had to slo down 2 times to 45/50 mph when cross winds were 50 mph plus gusting more than 50 mph. Also if wiggles IMO there is to much weight on rear not enough on front, I base on 65 yrs. plus of towing every thing not just AS only wiggle was hay racks not tow veh.
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06-26-2016, 02:44 PM
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#18
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Rivet Master
Currently Looking...
Mantua
, Ohio
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 7,062
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Most heavy trucks need a load to run smoother which makes setting up a WD hitch different. The trailer weight drops my truck about two inches in the rear. The ride is smooth there. I set the ball height to that level so when the trailer is on the hitch it drops another two inches from there. Using the bars I can raise it to the first setting which gives me a smooth ride, level trailer, limited WD and only an inch or two raise in the front . This is a one ton. This set up gives me sway control and some WD,but I seldom use this setup. Most of the time I tow on the ball with two sway control bars.
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06-26-2016, 03:54 PM
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#19
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Rivet Master
2014 25' FB Eddie Bauer
Vero Beach
, Florida
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 693
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I plugged the three sets of weights into the spreadsheet I use for my own analysis. I don't have the axle, tire and vehicle limits for your truck, so I can't comment on those. As for the others, your tongue weight is 1,140 lbs which suggests the 1,000 lb bars on your Equal-i-zer are a reasonable choice. 1,200 lb bars would actually be recommended based on conventional guidance given your trailer's tongue weight. For all the reasons you've cited, the conventional guidance may not get you what you want on your 2500.
The WD setup method I use is known as Front Axle Load Restoration (FALR). This approach starts by comparing the front axle weights of the truck alone with the hitched trailer and no WD to see how much load is removed. For you, that is 3.740-2,960=780 lbs.. The guidance is to adjust WD to restore between 50% and 100% of the lost weight. Your measurements return 87% ((3,640-2,960)/(3,740-2,960)) which is comfortably within that range. Note that the common approach to measuring the front wheel well height is a cruder version of FALR. I've never felt a tape measure on an asphalt parking lot gives the precision this task deserves.
Additionally, your WD setup as measured is moving 160 lbs to the trailer axles.
One other data point in your runs is tongue weight as a % of total trailer weight. Your trailer weights 8480 lbs. tongue weight is 1140. That is 13.2% tongue weight. Most guidance us to have tongue weight between 10 and 15% of trailer weight. You're good on that data point, too.
With the caveats of not knowing your vehicle and tire limits, the other parameters look good to me and give you some wiggle room to adjust the hitch as folks have suggested and see if you like the handling and ride any better. Do I recall that these weights were your prior setup and you added washers since then? Additional WD would increase FALR.
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06-26-2016, 08:54 PM
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#20
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2 Rivet Member
2013 27' FB Eddie Bauer
Salado
, Texas
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 88
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We pull a 27' Eddie Bauer with a Chevy 2500 and the Equalizer is a dream for us. Just looking at your picture, it looks to me as if you have too many washers in the hitch. The problem with the standard method for determining how many washers to put in the hitch is that it assumes something like 1/2 ton TV. 3/4 ton trucks ride butt-high with no load. After hooking up your truck rear bumper should be down closer to a level position, which is to say, the hook up should cause your rear fender to drop a half inch to inch.
The best way to check the balance is to drive it around. If it feels too stiff and like your truck has a rod up its rear end, then you have too much weight distribution applied. If it feels like you are driving an overloaded truck, then you have too little. I had to use trial and error but wound up with three washers when the school book solution was six. The AS pulls like a dream.
With the AS attached, I do need to crank the headlamps down a bit, just under 1 1/8 turns on the elevation screw, to keep from blinding folks, so the tongue weight does indeed drop the bed, but that is how it should be.
As for using the trailer jack to get the bars in their saddles, that is absolutely normal. The Equalizer comes with a tool for levering them up into place, but it is far easier to merely crank up the jack and slide them in .
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