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Old 08-26-2005, 10:02 AM   #15
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Good lord, can you imagine what would have happened if he had been towing with a Ford Explorer
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Old 08-26-2005, 10:34 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by summerkid
All right, I'm just contemplating my first trip towing the '62 Bambi with the Chevy S-10. Does the fact that I have a brake controller installed on the truck & working brakes on the trailer help me out at all?

I dont' know if you really need WD on that. a friction sway control certainly wouldn't hurt, and the brakes are a big plus, too. but many states wouldn't require brakes for a trailer that light.

I checked airstream's weight chart, and the hitch weight on a '62 bambi is only 200lbs. even on a little truck...that ain't much. But if the back end of the truck sagged much when hooked up, I'd certainly consider it.

they don't list Argosys, but a mid-70's 21foot GT hitch weight is 420. now yer gettin' up there...

The damage in the original post looks to me like it was caused more by lack of conciousness than a lack of sway control.
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Old 08-26-2005, 11:11 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck
The damage in the original post looks to me like it was caused more by lack of conciousness than a lack of sway control.
....and in many cases the use of sway control and weight distribution (if necessary) provides the margin of recoverability when we or someone else does something stupid.

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Old 08-26-2005, 11:50 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by jcanavera
....and in many cases the use of sway control and weight distribution (if necessary) provides the margin of recoverability when we or someone else does something stupid.

Jack

*WE* do something stupid????

bahhh!!!!!! never happen!!


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Old 08-26-2005, 01:25 PM   #19
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Another example of a bad day.
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Old 08-26-2005, 05:42 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by chuck
I dont' know if you really need WD on that. a friction sway control certainly wouldn't hurt, and the brakes are a big plus, too. but many states wouldn't require brakes for a trailer that light.

I checked airstream's weight chart, and the hitch weight on a '62 bambi is only 200lbs. even on a little truck...that ain't much. But if the back end of the truck sagged much when hooked up, I'd certainly consider it.

they don't list Argosys, but a mid-70's 21foot GT hitch weight is 420. now yer gettin' up there...

The damage in the original post looks to me like it was caused more by lack of conciousness than a lack of sway control.
S-10's are very softly sprung, especially the newer ones, and even a 200 pound load will cause quite a sag in the rear. If it doesn't, that's great, but I have seen the little S trucks look like they are carrying my ex-mother-in-law in the bed when they have more than a small amount of stuff in the bed.
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Old 03-22-2006, 11:10 PM   #21
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Please give advice before delivery.

I will be picking up my new Bambi 19 next week and was planning on towing it with my 2005 Land Rover.My manual says,"An equalising or other form of weight distributing hitch should NOT be used with your vehicle".Their italics,not mine.Please advise me on what to use.Thanks in advance.
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Old 03-22-2006, 11:30 PM   #22
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Hi there! It's exciting to be getting a new trailer, especially one as cool as a CCD Bambi, congrats! Perhaps you could start out by filling us in on what the weights and capacities are from your owners manual for your Land Rover. Wheelbase is also very important for stability.
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Old 03-22-2006, 11:56 PM   #23
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....and in many cases the use of sway control and weight distribution (if necessary) provides the margin of recoverability when we or someone else does something stupid.
Not in my experience.

Sway control mechanisms will not help a driver stay awake or alert.

Sway control will not make much of a difference in extreme situations such as those that cause a trailer to get bashed up.

In extreme situations, it is your trailer brake controller override that will do more than anything else to help you recover.

More than likely load leveling is irrelevant in this issue as well.

Instabilities from sway don't just come out of the blue. Any halfway competent driver is going to notice instabilities in a rig as he or she tries to get up to highway speeds and will compensate with reduced speed and increased caution until the cause can be fixed.

Sway control primarily serves to minimize the discomfort from such behavior and inhibit improper driver response from the trailer caused oversteer. It is better to think of sway control in the same vein as getting better shocks. Maybe a slight impact on safety but the main purpose is handling comfort.
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Old 03-23-2006, 06:14 AM   #24
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Bryan, you make a couple of good points, but I have to disagree with the rest.

A sway control will not overcome a poorly prepared driver, but don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

The last severe sway episode I had was with a 15' fiberglass trailer that jumped the bare-ball hitch behind my Excursion because it's coupler was worn. It danced around on the safety chains from one tire to the other until I managed to get it stopped safely. The trailer brakes were useless as it immediately pulled the pigtail out of the socket (I'm sure my facial expression of dispair was maniacal while I pressed the brake controller lever and nothing happened!) If I'd had a dual-cam setup on that trailer it couldn't have jumped the ball to begin with. Thank God I had a 1700 lb trailer and a 7000 lb tow vehicle! If I'd had my normal tow for the FG trailer, a Toyota compact truck, I'm sure it would have rolled me!

The causes of sway are manifold and include improper load distribution in the trailer (both side to side and tongue weight), soft or imbalanced tire inflation on both or either the trailer and tow vehicle, flex in the hitch and/or drawbar, and engineering flaws in the tow vehicle that allow for rear-axle steering, or in my case, hitch coupler failure. It took me two seasons WITH a Reese Dual-Cam to figure out and correct all of the suspension issues that the Excursion had that caused my 34' to 'wiggle' in passing truck traffic or high side winds. It wasn't the trailer at all!

Adding sway control to a tow vehicle/trailer rig without figuring out why it had a sway tendency and correcting it will only cause the sway to overcome the sway control method at the worst possible time. Personally, I hate surprises when I tow. You're much better to figure out and eliminate the causes of sway, and then add sway control as an extra measure of comfort.

Each tow vehicle/trailer combination responds differently when on the road. I'm always amazed at how a trailer that was almost uncontrollable behind one tow vehicle can be absolutely well behaved behind another.

Roger
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Old 03-23-2006, 07:35 AM   #25
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Man...this is the one thing that I am freaked out about. Proper hook-up is key and I do not want to screw it up. I have been cut and pasting pics like this as a reference. I will be towing with an 04' Tundra w/ towing package and have read everything in here about towing with a Tundra from top to bottom. One thing I really am questioning is the rear sag on my TV...when we hooked up to bring our AS home I was amazed at the sag. I called Toyota and they said that the sway bars will help with the weight distribution and will not cause as much sag once properly hook up. We didn't use the sway bars on the way home seeing it was a 5 mile trip of pretty much back roads. I'm questioning this now that I hear you guys saying the rear suspension must be beefed up with additional springs to reduce the sag. Now I'm thoroughly confused. Thanks for any input.
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Old 03-23-2006, 08:35 AM   #26
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You shouldn't need extra springs with your Tundra when using a WDH. The rear springs will settle with weight on them, that's normal. You should be able to return the truck/trailer combo to level with the load distribution bars. The idea of the bars is to distribute the tongue weight equally among all of the axles in the hitched truck/trailer combo, and both the truck and trailer should be level when you're finished.

Your Tundra should handle the weight of a 21' just fine with a WDH.

Roger
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Old 03-23-2006, 08:37 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enduroryda
One thing I really am questioning is the rear sag on my TV...when we hooked up to bring our AS home I was amazed at the sag. I called Toyota and they said that the sway bars will help with the weight distribution and will not cause as much sag once properly hook up.
those aren't "sway" bars; they're "weight distribution bars". and as such, if properly configured, will do just that: distribute the weight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by enduroryda
We didn't use the sway bars on the way home seeing it was a 5 mile trip of pretty much back roads. I'm questioning this now that I hear you guys saying the rear suspension must be beefed up with additional springs to reduce the sag. Now I'm thoroughly confused. Thanks for any input.
no, you don't need to add springs to your truck. Its perfectly capable of supporting the weight of the hitch...if that load is distributed evenly. "adding springs" is only necessary in something like an old sedan that wasn't meant to carry any weight at all. not for a truck like yours. It only sags because the weight is attached so far aft of the rear axle. that distance from the axle creates a big lever. You could put the same amount of weight in the bed of the truck, and it wouldn't sag at all. that's what the distribution bars do to the load.
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Old 03-23-2006, 08:43 AM   #28
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Roger, I know it is considered heretical, worse than being a Christian in Afghanistan, to not bow to the Gods of sway control and load leveling in an RV forum. But your own post contradicts itself.

An episode of hitch failure means that the sway control would also be gone - useless to ameliorate the outcome. You also say " The causes of sway are manifold" and then talk about an inadequate tow vehicle. and "I'm always amazed at how a trailer that was almost uncontrollable behind one tow vehicle can be absolutely well behaved behind another." Sway control can be a cover for problems that can reach out to bite you if you aren't careful.

The fact is that you noticed the handling before it became a problem is exactly to my point.

Enduroryda also demonstrates this. He notices the sag and realizes it needs fixing. He is worried about "proper hook-up is key" and wants to make sure to get it right.

When the feces hit the rotating air circulating device, it is way past the point where a sway control mechanism is going to make much difference. Whether it is a hitch failure or an attempt to recover from a sudden maneauver, sway control is well out of its regime. It is the driver who chooses the proper equipment, sets it up correctly, makes sure it is connected and functioning as intended, loads his rig properly, and drives with due consideration for the handling, size, and weight of his rig who has put his efforts into making a safe experience.
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