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webtrippin · 01-17-2011, 10:01 PM

Another thing to consider is the suspension setup of that car. A couple of our Land Rovers and Range Rovers had self leveling air suspension (which some wagons do too) and it specifically said in the manual to not to use weight distribution hitches as it would work against the air leveling and potentially damage it. Not that Rover needed any help with air suspension problems to begin with. In retrospect, it might have actually helped to use WD anyway (kidding of course)

I think the unibody construction might be scary here too with that much weight on the ball. And is that weight of 450lbs loaded with full propane tanks? If not, what's it gonna weigh when they are full, plus when there's stuff loaded inside the trailer, say under the lounge or whatever. Just something to consider, I know our tongue gets heavy real quick with stuff up front.

I love Beamers, but I'd never tow anything other than something super light with one of their cars. Actually, I'd never tow anything with them but I know plenty of people do, this just seems quite a bit too much.

Bandits · 01-18-2011, 06:08 PM

I pulled my weight tickets when I was attempting to understand what the Hensley Hitch was doing. I went through the scales the first time with the load transfer bars adjusted to the position that I was towing in. I pulled off the scales into the parking area and released all tension on the load transfer bars and then went through the scales a second time. Here are the results I got. It looks to me like I'm moving 400# to the front axel of the truck and 80# to the trailer axels. When I measured the tongue weight it was 860# which was 11.6% of the empty trailer weight when I brought it home from the dealer. I can only assume that the difference in weight is at the hitch receiver since the total gross weight is the same in each situation. Jerry.
Bars tensioned_________________ Bars tension released
front axel 4000#________________ front axel 3680#
rear axel 3920# ________________rear axel 4320#
trailer axels 7780#______________ trailer axels 7700#
__________________________________________________ ___

Total Gross 15700# ______________Total Gross 15700#

2airishuman · 01-18-2011, 06:16 PM

good numbers jerry,

and again this demonstrates the 1/3 1/3 1/3 equalizing stuff is nonsense,

as related to modern rig combinations.

but do you have the truck axle weights UNhitched?

the 4000lb front axle load WITH w/d doesn't mean much without the UNhitched values.

cheers
2air'

Inland RV Center, In · 01-18-2011, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bandits

I pulled my weight tickets when I was attempting to understand what the Hensley Hitch was doing. I went through the scales the first time with the load transfer bars adjusted to the position that I was towing in. I pulled off the scales into the parking area and released all tension on the load transfer bars and then went through the scales a second time. Here are the results I got. It looks to me like I'm moving 400# to the front axel of the truck and 80# to the trailer axels. When I measured the tongue weight it was 860# which was 11.6% of the empty trailer weight when I brought it home from the dealer. I can only assume that the difference in weight is at the hitch receiver since the total gross weight is the same in each situation. Jerry.
Bars tensioned_________________ Bars tension released
front axel 4000#________________ front axel 3680#
rear axel 3920# ________________rear axel 4320#
trailer axels 7780#______________ trailer axels 7700#
__________________________________________________ ___

Total Gross 15700# ______________Total Gross 15700#

You should move about another 200 pounds to the front axle of the tow vehicle. The watch the towing improvement.

Andy

Ag&Au · 01-18-2011, 06:54 PM

There is one other thing that I have never seen mentioned as a side effect of a weight distribution hitch.

As the bars are tightened (raised), the hitch cup on the trailer and the hitch ball on the truck are being pressed together with increasingly greater force.

I am guessing that it is of the order of a few 10's of pounds or less, and am too lazy to diagram and calculate it, but if carried to extremes, it could over stress the welds attaching the hitch cup to the A frame.

Ken

slowmover · 01-18-2011, 07:01 PM

and again this demonstrates the 1/3 1/3 1/3 equalizing stuff is nonsense,

With a pickup truck. Not with a car. In general.

I think the unibody construction might be scary here too with that much weight on the ball.

I doubt the car is less well-built than a 1960's Chrysler product. All of which were uni-body and had no problems with WDH.

As to surge brake units, both EQUAL-I-ZER and REESE offer WDH compatible with surge brake trailers (mainly sold to big trailerable boat owners).

.

2airishuman · 01-18-2011, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by w7ts

There is one other thing that I have never seen mentioned...

hi ken

yeah it's covered in several threads...

there are even calculations of how much MORE compressive force (torque) happens at the cup/ball/bar ends...

relative to the tongue weight or bar rating.

long ago someone posted that the w/d bars reduce cup/ball forces,

and thereby RAISE the cup off the ball, if the coupler not secured.

naturally we jumped all over this silly notion,

and there were even demonstrations 2 prove otherwise.

see the posts starting at ~#31 in this thread...

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f464...rol-17986.html

nick and others have exposed this issue in other threads too....

cheers
2air'

Ag&Au · 01-18-2011, 07:34 PM

Never mind

Bandits · 01-18-2011, 07:55 PM

The empty truck, no trailer, camping gear or passengers, just me and full fuel weighed in at 4020# front axel, the Cummings is heavy, and 2860# rear axel for a total of 6880#. When I first got the trailer I figured out that the empty trailer tongue weight was 840#. When the trailer is hitched and the bars are tensioned as I always tension them, the weight of the front axel increases back to almost the same 4020# as the empty truck. Jerry.

2airishuman · 01-18-2011, 07:59 PM

good info jerry,

reada like you dialed the w/d nicely to REload the front/steering axle.

that's how it's done!

cheers
2air'

Bandits · 01-18-2011, 08:26 PM

Andy: I did increase the tension on the weight distribution bars. I have a point that I measure where the sleeve that connects to the actual weight distribution bar draws up into the sleeve that houses the screw that tensions the bars. I have found that a 2.75" measurement gives me a level truck and trailer. Just to see what would happen if I increased the tension even more, I adjusted to 2.00" and went back around for another weight. Everything still appeared level. I was surprised when I got my weight ticket and found that the front axel stayed the same at 4000#. I did get a weight decrease on the rear axel of 20# which showed up as an additional 20# on the trailer axels. I felt that what I was seeing was the effective limit of weight transfer forward and certainly did not feel that the extra stresses being created were worth the benefit. What I intend to do the next time everything is hitched and loaded, and I'm near the scales, will be to do another check at my 2.75" setting and then start backing off the tension by maybe 0.5" at a time and see how the weight transfer changes. I think the least tension applied that produces the desired result will be better for both the truck and the trailer. Jerry.

Inland RV Center, In · 01-18-2011, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bandits

Andy: I did increase the tension on the weight distribution bars. I have a point that I measure where the sleeve that connects to the actual weight distribution bar draws up into the sleeve that houses the screw that tensions the bars. I have found that a 2.75" measurement gives me a level truck and trailer. Just to see what would happen if I increased the tension even more, I adjusted to 2.00" and went back around for another weight. Everything still appeared level. I was surprised when I got my weight ticket and found that the front axel stayed the same at 4000#. I did get a weight decrease on the rear axel of 20# which showed up as an additional 20# on the trailer axels. I felt that what I was seeing was the effective limit of weight transfer forward and certainly did not feel that the extra stresses being created were worth the benefit. What I intend to do the next time everything is hitched and loaded, and I'm near the scales, will be to do another check at my 2.75" setting and then start backing off the tension by maybe 0.5" at a time and see how the weight transfer changes. I think the least tension applied that produces the desired result will be better for both the truck and the trailer. Jerry.

Jerry.

Your absolutely correct.

Your doing the variables, as they should be done, whenever in doubt, then selecting the best for your particular trailer and tow vehicle.

Andy

Moonstruck · 01-19-2011, 05:05 AM

Gentlemen,

thank you all very much for your input on this question. I must say I didn't expect quite this volume of replies. I think maybe some of them might have been motivated by, "what does this English fella think he's up to?"

But, let me assure you, I know where the knowledge is!

I remember a few year's ago a post by REMCO in Holland saying he had just waved off a trailer, detailing his misgivings about the suitability of the tow vehicle. We may not be responsible for what other people do - but I'd sure as hell feel responsible if he ended up in a ditch!

Personally, instead of working the narrow margins of what an equalizer will do, or shaving weight off the trailer, I'd want some room to breathe!
I think only a suitable tow vehicle will do - I'm honour bound to think and express that.

Fortunately, we do have Grand Cherokees over here and I'm pretty sure the Class III hitch will take this trailer in it's stride.

I hesitate to ask but, any thoughts????

xrvr · 01-19-2011, 07:59 AM

Remember a beemer is a motorcycle and a bimmer is a car. zz

Ag&Au · 01-19-2011, 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moonstruck

Gentlemen,

thank you all very much for your input on this question. I must say I didn't expect quite this volume of replies. I think maybe some of them might have been motivated by, "what does this English fella think he's up to?"

But, let me assure you, I know where the knowledge is!

I remember a few year's ago a post by REMCO in Holland saying he had just waved off a trailer, detailing his misgivings about the suitability of the tow vehicle. We may not be responsible for what other people do - but I'd sure as hell feel responsible if he ended up in a ditch!

Personally, instead of working the narrow margins of what an equalizer will do, or shaving weight off the trailer, I'd want some room to breathe!
I think only a suitable tow vehicle will do - I'm honour bound to think and express that.

Fortunately, we do have Grand Cherokees over here and I'm pretty sure the Class III hitch will take this trailer in it's stride.

I hesitate to ask but, any thoughts????

I realize that Grand Cherokees have morphed some over the years. However, I pulled a 21 foot Bigfoot that had a Max GVW of about 6300 lbs and a tongue weight of 600 Lbs with a 1999 Grand Cherokee with no problem whatsoever. One of the Main reasons I traded it for my current TV was the frequent fuel stops I was having to make. I am confident you would not have a problem with that combination.

Ken

P.S. I used a Equal-I-Zer brand hitch