Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 09-11-2015, 01:09 AM   #813
Rivet Master
Airstream Dealer
 
Inland RV Center, In's Avatar
 
Corona , California
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 16,501
Images: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Gratz View Post
Al,

The WDH and bars, in effect, become part of the truck.
They add to the mass of the truck and cause the center of mass to move slightly rearward.

The WDH and bars do cause a slight reduction in load on the front axle and a slight increase in load on the rear.
However, since the CM has moved slightly rearward, the effect of decreased load on the front multiplied by increased distance to CM tends to be balanced by the effect of increased load on the rear multiplied by decreased distance to the CM.

In short, it is neither necessary nor desirable to restore/remove the axle loads which are subtracted/added by the weight of the WDH and bars.
The added mass of the WDH and bars automatically compensates by moving the center of mass of truck and cargo rearward.

The "TV Only" weight should include everything which is going to be in/on the TV while towing.
The WDH and bars are part of the TV's cargo.

Ron
Over 45 years ago, it was determined by various tests that the following is the best way for utilizing a travel trailer with a load equalizing hitch,

For example, assume a 900 pound tongue weight.

600 pounds should be transfered to the tow vehicle and 300 pounds should go back to the trailer. Further, the 600 pounds going to the tow vehicle should be equally divided to the 4 wheels, or 150 pounds to each wheel.

If there is an adequate trunk or rear end load placed in the tow vehicle, then some of it's weight can also be transfered to the front tow vehicle axle.

To remove weight from the front axle, will deem the steering wheel to become progressively useless, which in turn simply means your asking for a loss of control.

Andy
__________________

__________________
Inland RV Center, In is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2015, 08:54 AM   #814
4 Rivet Member
 
Livingston , Texas
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 394
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inland RV Center, In View Post
To remove weight from the front axle, will deem the steering wheel to become progressively useless, which in turn simply means your asking for a loss of control.
As I attempted to explain in response to Al's question about the weight of the WDH and bars:

Any mass added to a TV behind the rear axle will cause load to be removed from the front axle.
The added mass also will cause the TV's center of mass to move rearward.

The load on the front tires is reduced, but the distance from the front tires to the CM is increased.
Since the length of the moment arm (distance from axle to CM) is increased, the front tires can cause the same amount of steering torque.

The steering ability of the front tires does not become progressively worthless, because the tires are exerting their force over a longer moment arm.

Now, if you're talking about load removed from the TV's front axle due to the downward force on the ball resulting from "tongue weight" -- you're talking about a completely different situation.
The reason it's different is because the "tongue weight" removes load from the TV's front axle, but doesn't cause a rearward movement of the TV's center of mass.

Ron
__________________

__________________
Ron Gratz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2015, 09:31 AM   #815
4 Rivet Member
 
Livingston , Texas
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 394
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inland RV Center, In View Post
Over 45 years ago, it was determined by various tests that the following is the best way for utilizing a travel trailer with a load equalizing hitch,

For example, assume a 900 pound tongue weight.

600 pounds should be transfered to the tow vehicle and 300 pounds should go back to the trailer. Further, the 600 pounds going to the tow vehicle should be equally divided to the 4 wheels, or 150 pounds to each wheel.
Andy,

Someday I would like to see some documentation of the "various tests".

Perhaps that would help me understand why your conclusions are in disagreement with results of a scientific study conducted for DOT-NHTSA.

Results of the DOT-NHTSA study are discussed in Post #3 of http://www.airforums.com/forums/f464...ml#post1524036.

Ron
__________________
Ron Gratz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2015, 04:55 PM   #816
4 Rivet Member
 
Livingston , Texas
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 394
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inland RV Center, In View Post
Your rigging is within 100 pounds of being PERFECT

Find something else to worry about.
Andy,

Are you referring to the front and rear values for "WD On" -- (4760# versus 4660#)?
Are you implying that a "PERFECT" WDH adjustment would cause those values to be equal?

Al's scale numbers indicate the front axle LOST 200# (4760-4960) while the rear axle GAINED 1160# (4660-3500), giving a TV gain of 960#.
So, the distribution of the 960# added to the TV was:
Front axle = -20.8%
Rear axle = 120.8%.

In another post you stated the best way to utilize an equalizing hitch was to adjust it so the load added to the TV's front axle was equal to the load added to the TV's rear axle.

Clearly, -200# is not equal to +1160#.

There seems to be a significant disagreement between
1) "PERFECT" rigging in one post, and
2) the "best way for utilizing a travel trailer with a load equalizing hitch" in another post.

Ron
__________________
Ron Gratz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2015, 09:07 PM   #817
Rivet Slave
 
Rocinante's Avatar
 
2014 27' FB International
Western WA , Washington
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,303
Blog Entries: 49
Say, what size socket does one need to tighten the bolts in the EQ hitch head to 45 ft lbs? Can we achieve that with just a torque wrench, or do we need another wrench on the other side to hold everything in place while tightening?
__________________
Rocinante is our 2014 International Signature 27FB
(Named for John Steinbeck's camper from "Travels With Charley")


Rocinante is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2015, 09:26 PM   #818
Rivet Master
 
ROBERTSUNRUS's Avatar

 
2005 25' Safari
Salem , Oregon
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 7,239
Images: 18
Blog Entries: 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocinante View Post
Say, what size socket does one need to tighten the bolts in the EQ hitch head to 45 ft lbs? Can we achieve that with just a torque wrench, or do we need another wrench on the other side to hold everything in place while tightening?
Hi, on my eleven year old Equal-I-zer the socket bolts enter from the bottom of the hitch head. There is a hex built into the hitch head which holds the head of the bolts from turning while torqueing the nuts. I believe that the newer ones work the same way, but the bolts enter through the top and the nuts are on the bottom. Mine uses a 15/16" socket for the nuts.
__________________
Bob

2005 Safari 25-B
"Le Petit Chateau Argent"
[ Small Silver Castle ]
2000 Navigator / 2014 F-150 Eco-Boost / Equal-i-zer / P-3
YAMAHA 2400 / AIR #12144
ROBERTSUNRUS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2015, 07:43 AM   #819
Rivet Master
 
Al and Missy's Avatar

 
2002 30' Classic S/O
Melbourne Beach , Florida
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 1,539
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Gratz View Post
...

Now, if you're talking about load removed from the TV's front axle due to the downward force on the ball resulting from "tongue weight" -- you're talking about a completely different situation.
The reason it's different is because the "tongue weight" removes load from the TV's front axle, but doesn't cause a rearward movement of the TV's center of mass.

Ron
And this is the part i dont understand. Why is 900# of tongue weight any different from a 900# weight sitting on the hitch?

Taken to the limit, no matter how far aft the weight is, if it lifts the front tires off the ground, they won't provide any steering force. Not trying to be argumentative, just want to understand.

Al
__________________

"You cannot reason someone out of a position they have not been reasoned into"

Al, K5TAN and Missy, N4RGO
2002 Classic 30 Slideout
S/OS #004
2013 Dodge 2500 Laramie 4x4 Megacab Cummins
2001 Safari 25 RB Twin (Gone, but not forgotten)
WBCCI 1322, TAC FL-39, AIR 82265

Al and Missy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2015, 07:50 AM   #820
Rivet Master
 
paiceman's Avatar

 
2017 30' Classic
Upper St Clair , Pennsylvania
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,598
Images: 1
After 10,000 miles on this hitch, used Reese for 45 years, the ball has wear on the back side, ie the side facing the trailer? It took me a while to get used to his hitch, finally while out I downloaded a dealer video and worked it all out as far as hitching and unhitching. Still not sure I like this hitch enough to keep it. Bolts holding bars to the heads have loosened so I'll tighten them to the 45# as recommended. But now looking at anderson. I DO like the fact I can back into any location without taking bars off of the Equalizer
__________________
SAFE TRAVELS

Bud & Alice (Bud posts)
Abby- Black Lab-TDI Certified
Hopey-Yellow Lab-TDI Certified
2017 30' Classic
2015 F350 6.7 Diesel Crew Cab
USAF - Military Training Instructor (TI) - 68-72
paiceman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2015, 01:49 PM   #821
Rivet Master
Airstream Dealer
 
Inland RV Center, In's Avatar
 
Corona , California
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 16,501
Images: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Al and Missy View Post
And this is the part i dont understand. Why is 900# of tongue weight any different from a 900# weight sitting on the hitch?

Taken to the limit, no matter how far aft the weight is, if it lifts the front tires off the ground, they won't provide any steering force. Not trying to be argumentative, just want to understand.

Al
Al.

They are the same.

But, keep in mind what those hitches are called.

LOAD EQUALIZING.

That means exactly that, namely equalize the weight transfered to the tow vehicle tires, all four.

No biggie.

Andy
__________________
Inland RV Center, In is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2015, 08:14 PM   #822
4 Rivet Member
 
Livingston , Texas
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 394
Quote:
Originally Posted by Al and Missy View Post
And this is the part i dont understand. Why is 900# of tongue weight any different from a 900# weight sitting on the hitch?

Taken to the limit, no matter how far aft the weight is, if it lifts the front tires off the ground, they won't provide any steering force. Not trying to be argumentative, just want to understand.
Al,

Since our discussion is not specific to the Equal-i-zer Hitch, I think it would be better to move it to This Thread -- Posts #23 & 24.

I have attempted to answer your question there.

Ron
__________________
Ron Gratz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2015, 08:29 PM   #823
Rivet Master
Airstream Dealer
 
Inland RV Center, In's Avatar
 
Corona , California
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 16,501
Images: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Gratz View Post
Andy,

Are you referring to the front and rear values for "WD On" -- (4760# versus 4660#)?
Are you implying that a "PERFECT" WDH adjustment would cause those values to be equal?

Al's scale numbers indicate the front axle LOST 200# (4760-4960) while the rear axle GAINED 1160# (4660-3500), giving a TV gain of 960#.
So, the distribution of the 960# added to the TV was:
Front axle = -20.8%
Rear axle = 120.8%.

In another post you stated the best way to utilize an equalizing hitch was to adjust it so the load added to the TV's front axle was equal to the load added to the TV's rear axle.

Clearly, -200# is not equal to +1160#.

There seems to be a significant disagreement between
1) "PERFECT" rigging in one post, and
2) the "best way for utilizing a travel trailer with a load equalizing hitch" in another post.

Ron
Ron

While trying to make the most of my R & R in Hawaii, I did not read that chart as well as I should have.

Never reducing tow vehicle front axle weight when towing a trailer, using a load equalizing hitch, is what I was taught using math, Physics and personal thousands of miles towing.

Sorry for the confusion.

Andy
__________________
Inland RV Center, In is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2015, 02:17 PM   #824
4 Rivet Member
 
Livingston , Texas
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 394
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inland RV Center, In View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Al & Missy
And this is the part i dont understand. Why is 900# of tongue weight any different from a 900# weight sitting on the hitch?

Taken to the limit, no matter how far aft the weight is, if it lifts the front tires off the ground, they won't provide any steering force. Not trying to be argumentative, just want to understand.
Al.

They are the same.
No, they are not the same.
There is an important difference.
Discussion can be found HERE.

Ron
__________________
Ron Gratz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2015, 01:39 PM   #825
4 Rivet Member
 
tinbender's Avatar
 
2001 16' Bambi
2013 23' International
Piedmont Region , North Carolina
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 334
Need hitch help in Indy !!
An AS newbie who lives on the north side of Indy has bad hitch problems. Has had the trailer about 3 months. Already spent more than the hitch is worth for having it "adjusted" by a shop who made it worse.

Anyone in the Indy area know of a shop that actually knows how to properly set up an Equalizer hitch ??
2015 Dodge Ram 1500 pickup.
Thanks for recommendations.....


Sent from my iPhone using Airstream Forums
__________________
'01 16' Bambi --- Swee' Pea
'13 23D International --- Trixy
'09 Silverado --- Big Bertha
Adoptee -- '78 Argosy 24' Moho -- Big Girl
tinbender is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2015, 03:45 PM   #826
Rivet Master
 
paiceman's Avatar

 
2017 30' Classic
Upper St Clair , Pennsylvania
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,598
Images: 1
Tinbender: Suggest you go on line, read the equalizer set up instructions then on youtube there are pretty good videos on set up and use. I have looked at both and set my own up and like the way it works. My only issue so far is the bolts holding the bars to the head loosened up on our trip this summer (10,000 miles) and we just returned from a two week quick trip and I found the ball had come loose. I have the tools to tighten all, but in 40+ years of Reese, nothing every came loose.
__________________

__________________
SAFE TRAVELS

Bud & Alice (Bud posts)
Abby- Black Lab-TDI Certified
Hopey-Yellow Lab-TDI Certified
2017 30' Classic
2015 F350 6.7 Diesel Crew Cab
USAF - Military Training Instructor (TI) - 68-72
paiceman is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by



Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:23 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.