Draw-Tite Will Tell You

[jcanavera]

Originally Posted by barts

The issue with stiff bars is this: when vehicles pitch or head up a steep incline, the bars exert a lot more force on the trailer tongue. It would be a lot better if the weight distributing force didn't vary so much with the relative vehicle-trailer angle.

When you use stiff bars and don't bend them as much, your rig is much more sensitive to this then when more flexible bars are bent further.

Ideally, the weight distributing torque would be generated by a more constant force spring; a heavy air cylinder/air bag + small pressure tank come to mind because of the ease of releasing the tension (three way solenoid).

- Bart

I had an extended discussion with a Reese engineer many years ago regarding the weight capacity of the bars and when you need to upgrade (at the time I had an SOB and was upgrading the trailer which was going to have more hitch weight).

One of the things he talked about was the situation where you hit a dip in the road where the nose of the trailer dips down as described above. One of the reasons he gave me to upgrade was the fact that if your suspension on the tow vehicle is soft enough to cause the effect of the dip, the bars will be undergoing some extreme stress since they are having to bend at a more severe angle. Bar's that are undersized in that situation can exceed their bend strength and literally snap. I haven't run into someone who had that happen but it is something to consider.

While this discussion is primarily on the effects of larger heavily sprung tow vehicles and how it effects the weight distribution bar choice, you have to be cognitive of how a heavy dip can affect those bars and the consequence of the tow vehicles suspension in resisting that dip. I can tell you from personal experience changing from a half ton to a 3/4 ton vehicle made all the difference in the world on the amount of travel of the trucks suspension when that situation occurred.

Jack

[Ag&Au]

I don't know what it would take to make bars snap, but I have read here on the forum of that happening going over a dip.

I do still have two 600# Equal-I-Zer bars that are visibly bent from trying to back up an incline while they were in place.

Ken

[dznf0g]

w7,

What setup are you running with your 31 classic now?

[Ag&Au]

Originally Posted by dznf0g

w7,

What setup are you running with your 31 classic now?

Hi,

TV is 2003 Dodge 2500 quad cab short bed diesel

Hitch is a ProPride with 1400# bars

(That's when its not being towed with wife's Smart Car. See post 37)

Ken

[dznf0g]

Originally Posted by w7ts

Hi,

TV is 2003 Dodge 2500 quad cab short bed diesel

Hitch is a ProPride with 1400# bars

(That's when its not being towed with wife's Smart Car. See post 37)

Ken

I saw that. That's one heck of a rear suspension there...has it got Hi Jackers up under there and a big block up front?

Seen any issues with the stout bars on the hitch setup? What's your tongue weight?

[Airslide]

Love these hitch discussions.. I got in trouble once cuz I suggested I'll get the popcorn for the event.. anyways...

Im now running the airsafe for my dumptruck and the airstream is nicely insulated from any bumps the truck may encounter.. The ride is nice and the bars that I like to use are rated at 1000 lbs.. Im a happy camper.

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f464...tch-62774.html

[Bluto]

I also like to use the Reese Dual Cam 1000# bars and an AirSafe hitch behind my truck. It seems to me to be a good combo setup. My tongue weight of my trailer is at 950#'s when ready for travel.

[dznf0g]

Thanks, all, I don't want to start anything either...I'm out of beer for the show!
I just wanted to see if folks with about my size and vintage unit were running "stiff" bars. It was insinuated a couple of times I shouldn't be running 1000# bars with 900# of tongue on a 30' Classic. So I just wanted to get some conventional actual usage "wisdom".

I had a long, detailed discussion with Equal-I-zer rep today, and in the end of it all he said I was just right.

[HiHoAgRV]

Originally Posted by Airslide

... I got in trouble once cuz I suggested I'll get the popcorn for the event.. .

Teee Heee...me too...but on an axle thread....

Anyway....I have 1,400 lb bars on my Hensley and I have to crank the heck outta them to get the Truck front axle weight back to a reasonable level...I'm STILL 200+ lbs lighter on the nose when hitched. 1,000 bars won't do it!

Meez thinkin' that talkin' ain't doin it...head for the scales!

[dznf0g]

Oh, I've been to the scales many times...I thought I had woke from a dream and all the rules of physics and math had changed......I'm good.

[Ag&Au]

Originally Posted by dznf0g

I saw that. That's one heck of a rear suspension there...has it got Hi Jackers up under there and a big block up front?

Seen any issues with the stout bars on the hitch setup? What's your tongue weight?

I am sure I would have a much worse ride with lighter bars. It takes a lot of tension on the 1400# bars to get the truck and trailer balanced correctly. There is visual bending upward of the tapered bars

The few times I have experimented with backing off the tensions a bit, the ride has become very bouncy and uncomfortable. With the proper tension, everything seems to work together.

The only bad rides I have had is on concrete interstates where the seams have become buckled from heat expansion. Those same roads are annoying in a passenger car.

As far a tongue weight is concerned, I have a tongue weight scale, but since the mass of the ProPride is hanging on the tongue when unhitched, it is not possible to get a good figure, but I am comfortable with how everything adjusts and drives.

I have close to 8000 miles of towing with this setup and have not had a problem with truck/hitch/trailer combo.


Regards,

Ken

Attached picture is the best I could find to show everything hooked up on a semi level surface.
I just noticed the spokes on the front and rear truck wheels are aligned the same way.
How do I get the trailer wheels to do that?

[lylesgl]

4 months ago I purchased a 2006 F-350 dually to tow my 2007 Safari 27FB. The F-350 was a replacement for a wrecked 2005 Ford Expedition. I was using the Reese dual cam WD system with 1200lb bars. Within 50 miles, a skin crack developed beneath the front locker door (as seen in picture) along with a popped rivet. Utilizing Andy's advice, I switched to lower bars (800lbs...the 600lbs are no longer manufactured). I also purchased an AirSafe class 6 hitch. I recently returned from a 1400 mile trip; no problems. No more open cabinet doors fallen light fixture caps that I experienced with the previous hitch setup. In my humble opinion, and now very real personal experience, Andy is correct in his assertion regarding the consequences of overhitching.

I have tried to mitigate my risk of an overpowered/stiff tow vehicle with the 800lbs reese WD bars and AirSafe hitch. Thus far the combo seems to be working, however only time will really tell. I would hate to be forced to trade in my tow vehicle; but it may come to that.

Thanks Andy for your insight and information; it certainly helped me; although I heeded it a bit late...

[SteveH]

The two previous posts are vivid illustrations of what I have said for a long time....There are bars and then there are BARS.

The round tapered bars used by ProPride, Hensley, and many others are much more flexible than the square trunion bars used by Reese, and therefore provide a much smoother ride. However, I find it hard to believe "lylesgl's" 50 miles of driving with an F-350 and the heavy Reese bars did the damage to the front of the trailer. Not saying it can't or didn't happen, just saying it seems that kind of damage would take a while, and may have started unnoticed before the "50 miles".

I think the fact that I pulled our 25' over 16,000 miles last year with a 2500 GMC, and a ProPride hitch with 1000 pound bars, over some of the roughest roads on the American continent, without the slightest bit of damage proves this.

This, and the fact that with the same trailer having been towed for two prior years with a Reese that provided a much harsher ride, convinces me that the Reese just rides harsh, period.....

[crispyboy]

Steveh,
One of the other things that may come into play here is the fact that you may not be using your 1000 lb bars at their limit whereas I believe a Reese dual cam system the bars must have a certain amount of deflection for the dual cam system to work at it's potential. This may part of the reasoning behind Andy's lighter bar argument. Andy's truck experience may be tainted from the rough truck suspensions prior to 1990. Just an assumption on my part.

Over the past 3 years I have towed 2 different Airstream trailers with 3 different vehicles. The majority of my towing experience has been with a HAHA and 1000 lb bars.

Trailer one was a 22' Airstream with a tongue weight in the neighborhood 450 lbs.

Trailer two is a 29' Airstream with a tongue weight in the neighborhood of 800 lbs.

Vehicle one (1990 Jeep Grand Wagoneer) was very lightly sprung and squishy like 70's cars. The heavy bars of the HAHA were cranked up very tight to level things out and get a good ride - matter of fact it was a fantastic ride - felt like floating on air - bridge abutments and all - I miss this combo.

Vehicle two (1986 Jeep 3/4 ton pickup payload cap. is 3,400 lbs) was a very heavily sprung vehicle akin to a one ton truck or greater in comparison to modern trucks. The 22' AS needed no weight dist. The 29' AS - used minimal weight dist to achieve a decent ride and level truck and trailer. The more compression on the springs the better the ride and overall handling. Things did not move around in the trailer.

Vehicle three (2009 Dodge Ram 2500 payload cap. is 2,000 lbs) is a somewhat heavily sprung vehicle in comparison to the Jeep pickup. I still only use minimal weight distribution with the HAHA. Two weeks ago we just completed a 3000 mile trip with the Dodge and 29' AS. I had to readjust the bars a few times till I could get the ride and handling to feel right. More weight on the back of the truck resulted in a better ride for the trailer and occupants of the truck.

The 3000 mile trip was from KY to the western side of South Dakota. Their are a lot of bridge abutments and poor roads along the way. I could have definitely benefited from an air ride hitch. There were times when we got shook up quite a bit. I think Sean or HAHA should definitely develop an air ride system in conjunction with their hitch - it would at least improve the ride for the tow vehicle occupants.

[SteveH]

Originally Posted by crispyboy

The 3000 mile trip was from KY to the western side of South Dakota. Their are a lot of bridge abutments and poor roads along the way. I could have definitely benefited from an air ride hitch. There were times when we got shook up quite a bit. I think Sean or HAHA should definitely develop an air ride system in conjunction with their hitch - it would at least improve the ride for the tow vehicle occupants.

I agree the combination would be a good thing. The only problem I have with it is the additional length. Combine the additional length of the Airsafe with the already long ProPride or Hensley, and you have about three feet of length from the bumper to the ball.

In no way can see that as a good thing.

Now, if the properties of the Airsafe could be incorporated into the ProPride without adding the additional length, I would definately buy it.

[GetOutDoors]

Ok ... this thread is the last straw that has caused me to sound off: the one thing I have learned to dislike about this forum is all the advice given by people who are radical about their opinion, yet really don’t have real life experience to back it up. There’s lots of hear-say here. Please, in the interest of all those who come here looking for sound advice, if you don’t have any substance to add based on real-life first person experience, weight the value of that opinion before you post.

I don’t claim to know everything about this topic, but I have re-built a 1966 22 foot Safari from the frame, up.

I’m the guy that had to deal with all the water damage cause by leaky rivets. It was obvious: the rivet heads had become smaller then the diameter of the rivet holes in the 2024 T3 032 aircraft aluminum skin of the trailer.

I’m also the guy that saw how the frame of the shell had separated from the floor and out-riggers (something no one could know without removing either the outside or inside skin).

So though you may not see the damage, there really is such a thing as too much truck (chasse wise) and too much weight distribution control.

If you care about your investment (Airstream), and don’t want to have to continually chase leaks a few years from now, your job is to cut through manufactures/salesmen’s marketing ploy to determine the best balance in load and sway control between your trailer and the TV.

[SteveH]

Originally Posted by GetOutDoors

I don’t claim to know everything about this topic, but I have re-built a 1966 22 foot Safari from the frame, up.

I’m the guy that had to deal with all the water damage cause by leaky rivets. It was obvious: the rivet heads had become smaller then the diameter of the rivet holes in the 2024 T3 032 aircraft aluminum skin of the trailer.

I’m also the guy that saw how the frame of the shell had separated from the floor and out-riggers (something no one could know without removing either the outside or inside skin).

GetOutDoors,

I will in no way dispute anything that you say. However, do you suppose that all the damage you found on your trailer while rebuilding it could possibly be normal wear and tear for a possibly heavily used trailer that is 44 years old?

Or, is it absolutely certain the damage was caused by too heavily suspended TV and too much weight distribution?

[Ag&Au]

Originally Posted by GetOutDoors

Ok ... this thread is the last straw that has caused me to sound off: the one thing I have learned to dislike about this forum is all the advice given by people who are radical about their opinion, yet really don’t have real life experience to back it up. There’s lots of hear-say here. Please, in the interest of all those who come here looking for sound advice, if you don’t have any substance to add based on real-life first person experience, weight the value of that opinion before you post.

I don’t claim to know everything about this topic, but I have re-built a 1966 22 foot Safari from the frame, up.

I’m the guy that had to deal with all the water damage cause by leaky rivets. It was obvious: the rivet heads had become smaller then the diameter of the rivet holes in the 2024 T3 032 aircraft aluminum skin of the trailer.

I’m also the guy that saw how the frame of the shell had separated from the floor and out-riggers (something no one could know without removing either the outside or inside skin).

So though you may not see the damage, there really is such a thing as too much truck (chasse wise) and too much weight distribution control.

If you care about your investment (Airstream), and don’t want to have to continually chase leaks a few years from now, your job is to cut through manufactures/salesmen’s marketing ploy to determine the best balance in load and sway control between your trailer and the TV.

First of all, there are two threads going on right now on this exact same issue, so it is confusing what has been said where .

However since I just got through explaining my experience on both threads, I am offended by your post.

I think it would not be wise at all for you to take what I state about my 2010 31 Classic trailer and try to apply it to your light trailer that by just about any definition would be classified as an antique. It is only logical to assume that is much more fragile. Aluminum does not stay at its original strength forever. When your trailer was built most people were towing with passenger vehicles, so it only logical to assume it was built to a different standard.

If this post was not directed to everyone posting, I would suggest that you quote at least one of the posts that is offending you.

Ken

[GetOutDoors]

Originally Posted by SteveH

GetOutDoors,

... do you suppose that all the damage you found on your trailer while rebuilding it could possibly be normal wear and tear for a possibly heavily used trailer that is 44 years old?

If the damage was normal wear for a 44 year old trailer, then wouldn't all 44 year old trailers suffer a similar fate? Yet you don't read about this with regard to other 44 year old trailers (39 at the time of the rebuild project).

And why did this only occur to the front of the trailer? It would seem there should be some damage elsewhere, like somewhere close to the axle or to the rear of the trailer....

You have to ask, if it's not related to the TV or load control, what would cause this kind of damage?

[GetOutDoors]

W7ts,

Not trying or desiring to offend.

But I find it a reach, seeing that your trailer is a 2010, that any inspection thereof is a good specimen to determine damage caused by too stiff of tow vehicle chasse.

Beside, my post was not directed at any particular person ....