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Old 11-01-2010, 08:47 PM   #29
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Andy,
I have the Hensley, F450 with 4 wheel drive and 30 ft 2006 classic. What size bar will you recommend. Thanks.
You dont need w/d bars,,, maybe 1 or 2 tons of sand in the back to smooth your ride...
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Old 11-01-2010, 10:12 PM   #30
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Somehow, that's just what I expected....you really can't show any documentation that properly rated hitch bars cause accidents, can you? So, we must assume this is just your thoughts on the matter?
I have been called worse, but I have 44 plus years of positive credentials, and international recognition.

Again, each person has a right to their opinion.

I really believe this subject has out lived it's public usefullness.

Accordingly, I sign off to those that, are of a higher authority.

Andy
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Old 11-02-2010, 07:51 AM   #31
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I have been called worse, but I have 44 plus years of positive credentials, and international recognition.

Again, each person has a right to their opinion.

I really believe this subject has out lived it's public usefullness.

Accordingly, I sign off to those that, are of a higher authority.

Andy
You know Andy, the funny thing about this to me is how you get all bowed up reciting all you experience, and then just leave the thread when it does not go your way. Let's see....fourty four years "positive credentials"....you are either much older than you let on, or you started with your "positive credentials" when you were 20.

And then, even funnier is I don't think you ever stated before that manufacturer recommend weight WD bars were unsafe, just rough riding with a heavy duty truck. But, when I questioned you about it, again you got all bowed up and started stating your "experience", and there were "enough to satisfy". This, with no earlier statement by you, that I remember, that says correct bars were unsafe.

Does it not seem here that you just resent anyone else having some "experience", and then even more resent someone not totally accepting your word as the Gospel? It's like your word based on "experience" is more important than fact.

Think about it.
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Old 11-02-2010, 08:28 AM   #32
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Still believe that over hitching an Airstream will cause damage to your trailer. Weight distrubution is needed for safety when tongue weight affects your tow vehicle period.

I think the topic of what bar ratings are needed are two different subjects. Manufactures specfiy bar ratings versus tongue weights..... Andy mentions damages that may result in this case over hitching to point the trailer and the tow vehicle become so rigid between them that shock loads transfer through the frame of the trailer resulting in unsatisfactory results.
Remember these are just opinions by anyone that posts.
No gospel here nor is Andy's
Some of those insurance claims could be very well damaged being claimed by owners of trailers resulting from rigid hitching, who knows and who really cares if safety is the only factor to one's own concern.
Just make your own decisions and not worry about it
Advice is just what it imply s..... an opinion or recommendation offered as a guide to action
Forums are just opinions, no facts here
Happy streamin'
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Old 11-02-2010, 09:11 AM   #33
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Still believe that over hitching an Airstream will cause damage to your trailer. Weight distrubution is needed for safety when tongue weight affects your tow vehicle period.

Happy streamin'
Don't believe I have ever stated that too heavy of bars would not damage a trailer...only that it has never happened to me.

The thing is, Andy only talks about Reese trunion bars, like there are no other manufactuers or no other types of bars. The other thing that I maintain is that bars, like most any other component, have a capacity....i.e. they may be capable of carrying 1000 pounds per pair. Does not mean they are always carrying 1000 pounds in use. That's determined by how you adjust them.

The other thing is, if Reese bars are capable of causing damage, then every Eaz-i-lift hitch equipped Airstream on the road should be damaged, because those untapered bars a much more stiff than the tapered Reese bars. Don't recall anyone complaining about such damage.

I'm sorry, but Andy's recommendations just do not compute to me.
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Old 11-02-2010, 09:23 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by SteveH View Post
Don't believe I have ever stated that too heavy of bars would not damage a trailer...only that it has never happened to me.

The thing is, Andy only talks about Reese trunion bars, like there are no other manufactuers or no other types of bars. The other thing that I maintain is that bars, like most any other component, have a capacity....i.e. they may be capable of carrying 1000 pounds per pair. Does not mean they are always carrying 1000 pounds in use. That's determined by how you adjust them.

The other thing is, if Reese bars are capable of causing damage, then every Eaz-i-lift hitch equipped Airstream on the road should be damaged, because those untapered bars a much more stiff than the tapered Reese bars. Don't recall anyone complaining about such damage.

I'm sorry, but Andy's recommendations just do not compute to me.
Steve, I know you didn't mention "that too heavy of bars would not damage a trailer"
It's been discussed "so many times in the past that any thread that mentions the word hitch" gets high jacked with opinions on weight distribution. So sorry for my opinions on it.... nice link you posted on draw-Tite receivers
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Old 11-02-2010, 11:00 AM   #35
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Use the smallest one they have.

However, my experience says you still have waaaaaaay to much towing equipment, for your 30 foot.

Andy
Andy,
Appreciate your advice and thanks.
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Old 11-02-2010, 11:04 AM   #36
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for the majority of haha users bars should be matched to tongue weight.

it is simply that simple.
_________

with the 450, go directly to the scales.

weigh the truck unhitched for the base axle loads.

hook up with the w/d adjusted to ZERO/no tension and re weigh.

assuming the steering axle weight does NOT drop more than 2-300 lbs...

one could keep the w/d tension to a MINIMUM (and not worry about changing w/d bars)

since there may be NO REASON to transfer/redistribute tongue loads.
________

sway control with the PP or haha is not dependent of ANY tension in the w/d bars...

so they can be tensioned JUST ENOUGH to keep the hitch head level on trucks with large bed payloads.

again, it's just that simple.

cheers
2air'
Thanks for your response and advice on this issue.
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Old 11-02-2010, 11:08 AM   #37
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Lightbulb waaaaaaay too good idea

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Andy,
Appreciate your advice and thanks.
Do you want to trade your truck for my wife's Smart Car, so you can tow safely? (ProPride not included)
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Old 11-02-2010, 11:09 AM   #38
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The issue with stiff bars is this: when vehicles pitch or head up a steep incline, the bars exert a lot more force on the trailer tongue. It would be a lot better if the weight distributing force didn't vary so much with the relative vehicle-trailer angle.

When you use stiff bars and don't bend them as much, your rig is much more sensitive to this then when more flexible bars are bent further.

Ideally, the weight distributing torque would be generated by a more constant force spring; a heavy air cylinder/air bag + small pressure tank come to mind because of the ease of releasing the tension (three way solenoid).

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Old 11-02-2010, 11:16 AM   #39
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SteveH

Things happen to some people and not to others, in many different ways in each of our lifes.

Some people, as an example, get into car wrecks, some do not.

Just because something doesn't happen to one individual, doesn't mean it doesn't happen to others.

This Forums, is supposed to be "knowledge sharing", as a person or as a company, or both, and that is my sole purpose.

Every person can disagree with anything they may choose.

When experience is challenged, it usually is followed with experience as well, demonstrating something realistic. Opinions, are always welcomed, but they still are opinions.

Just because I never crashed an airplane, doesn't mean that someone else will never do it either.

Intelligent exchanging of knowledge, is what lifes all about.

Andy
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Old 11-02-2010, 11:54 AM   #40
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SteveH

This Forums, is supposed to be "knowledge sharing", as a person or as a company, or both, and that is my sole purpose.

Every person can disagree with anything they may choose.

When experience is challenged, it usually is followed with experience as well, demonstrating something realistic. Opinions, are always welcomed, but they still are opinions.

Intelligent exchanging of knowledge, is what lifes all about.

Andy
Andy, I agree. However, it seems when you give your "experience", you want it taken as fact.

When someone else gives their experience, you say it is just "opinion".

You would do better to realize you are not the only one that did not fall off the turnip truck yesterday.
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Old 11-03-2010, 12:17 PM   #41
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The issue with stiff bars is this: when vehicles pitch or head up a steep incline, the bars exert a lot more force on the trailer tongue. It would be a lot better if the weight distributing force didn't vary so much with the relative vehicle-trailer angle.

When you use stiff bars and don't bend them as much, your rig is much more sensitive to this then when more flexible bars are bent further.

Ideally, the weight distributing torque would be generated by a more constant force spring; a heavy air cylinder/air bag + small pressure tank come to mind because of the ease of releasing the tension (three way solenoid).

- Bart
I had an extended discussion with a Reese engineer many years ago regarding the weight capacity of the bars and when you need to upgrade (at the time I had an SOB and was upgrading the trailer which was going to have more hitch weight).

One of the things he talked about was the situation where you hit a dip in the road where the nose of the trailer dips down as described above. One of the reasons he gave me to upgrade was the fact that if your suspension on the tow vehicle is soft enough to cause the effect of the dip, the bars will be undergoing some extreme stress since they are having to bend at a more severe angle. Bar's that are undersized in that situation can exceed their bend strength and literally snap. I haven't run into someone who had that happen but it is something to consider.

While this discussion is primarily on the effects of larger heavily sprung tow vehicles and how it effects the weight distribution bar choice, you have to be cognitive of how a heavy dip can affect those bars and the consequence of the tow vehicles suspension in resisting that dip. I can tell you from personal experience changing from a half ton to a 3/4 ton vehicle made all the difference in the world on the amount of travel of the trucks suspension when that situation occurred.

Jack
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Old 11-03-2010, 12:24 PM   #42
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I don't know what it would take to make bars snap, but I have read here on the forum of that happening going over a dip.

I do still have two 600# Equal-I-Zer bars that are visibly bent from trying to back up an incline while they were in place.

Ken
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