Draw-Tite Will Tell You

[Coastalview]

It all comes back to what your tow vehicle is. A VW Bug or an F450
The 450 is the most ridgid out of the major 3 big pickup manufactures. Leaf springs stacked a mile high and give the same ride quality. Even at 1,000 lbs. of tongue weight on this monster isn't going to make it unsafe to tow without weight distrbution. You may not even see the the hitch height even drop with a 1,000 lbs. To get any tongue weight forward from the hitch is going take some mighty big bars to transfer that weight through such a chassis.
Why some much emphasis on recreational trailers? Take a look around and see what other trailers are being pulled with no more than a ball.

Yes Steve your right about the title of your thread

[Inland RV Center, In]

Originally Posted by SteveH

A simple question for you Andy....How many of these 1000+ accidents can you show documentation of being caused by using the weight range bars that the hitch manufacturer recommended for the tongue weight of trailer being towed?

Oh, and just so we remember, this thread was started to show where a manufacturer recommends certain hitch RECEIVERS for different vehicles and gives the weight rating for that RECEIVER.

No hijack intended.

I have hitch facts, that some disagree with, and that is their choice.

I worked for Caravanner Insurance Company, they didn't.

Andy

[2airishuman]

Originally Posted by F450Harley

...I have the Hensley, F450 with 4 wheel drive and 30 ft 2006 classic. What size bar will you recommend. Thanks.

for the majority of haha users bars should be matched to tongue weight.

it is simply that simple.
_________

with the 450, go directly to the scales.

weigh the truck unhitched for the base axle loads.

hook up with the w/d adjusted to ZERO/no tension and re weigh.

assuming the steering axle weight does NOT drop more than 2-300 lbs...

one could keep the w/d tension to a MINIMUM (and not worry about changing w/d bars)

since there may be NO REASON to transfer/redistribute tongue loads.
________

sway control with the PP or haha is not dependent of ANY tension in the w/d bars...

so they can be tensioned JUST ENOUGH to keep the hitch head level on trucks with large bed payloads.

again, it's just that simple.

cheers
2air'

[SteveH]

Originally Posted by Inland RV Center, In

No hijack intended.

I have hitch facts, that some disagree with, and that is their choice.

I worked for Caravanner Insurance Company, they didn't.

Andy

Andy, you failed to answer my question. Again:

A simple question for you Andy....How many of these 1000+ accidents can you show documentation of being caused by using the weight range bars that the hitch manufacturer recommended for the tongue weight of trailer being towed?

[2airishuman]

Originally Posted by SteveH

.How many of these 1000+ accidents can you show documentation of being caused by...

drawing ANY attention to this 40 year old accident nonsense...

only serves to PROMOTE the notion that the investigations were valid on some level...

ANY level.

just take a quick gander at the questions used (as you have already seen them, but others may not...)

(supplemented with historical interviews none of us have access 2...)

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f464...ire-47613.html

while there is nothing wrong with an insurance company (even 40 years ago) investigating claims...

the actual data collected (based on these old questions) is useless in determining what caused those accidents...

and totally irrelevant to anything happening while towing on roadways in this century.

the octopus who predicted world cup wins would be a better dither...

but sadly the eight legged wizard has died.

cheers
2air'

[Inland RV Center, In]

Originally Posted by SteveH

Andy, you failed to answer my question. Again:

A simple question for you Andy....How many of these 1000+ accidents can you show documentation of being caused by using the weight range bars that the hitch manufacturer recommended for the tongue weight of trailer being towed?

Enough to satisfy.

The question is more "satisfy who"?

You know, I just read that all physics will be discarded after 20 years, so that new researchers will have "jobs".

I think your original post has now gone off track.

Andy

[SteveH]

Originally Posted by Inland RV Center, In

Enough to satisfy.

The question is more "satisfy who"?

You know, I just read that all physics will be discarded after 20 years, so that new researchers will have "jobs".

I think your original post has now gone off track.

Andy

Somehow, that's just what I expected....you really can't show any documentation that properly rated hitch bars cause accidents, can you? So, we must assume this is just your thoughts on the matter?

Seems to me, just the opposite would more likely be true. If you adjust a set of 500 pound bars to carry 1000 pounds, those 500 pound bars would be more likely to fail (break) in use, and the resulting rapid change of weight distribution just might actually cause an accident, not to mention the damage that two five or so pounds chunks of steel hurtling down the highway might cause. We've all read about Reese Bars failing in proper application use.

I wonder who would be liable for that damage....the hitch manufacturer, or the user who used them improperly?

And about the thread topic....seems I should have parental rights on that.

[Airstreamdmb]

am in the same boat. Am unsure of how much of a tow bar to use without beating my 1965 Ambassador to pieces. Want to start out with the correct one from the start. Any advice anyone???

[r carl]

Originally Posted by F450Harley

Andy,
I have the Hensley, F450 with 4 wheel drive and 30 ft 2006 classic. What size bar will you recommend. Thanks.

You dont need w/d bars,,, maybe 1 or 2 tons of sand in the back to smooth your ride...

[Inland RV Center, In]

Originally Posted by SteveH

Somehow, that's just what I expected....you really can't show any documentation that properly rated hitch bars cause accidents, can you? So, we must assume this is just your thoughts on the matter?

I have been called worse, but I have 44 plus years of positive credentials, and international recognition.

Again, each person has a right to their opinion.

I really believe this subject has out lived it's public usefullness.

Accordingly, I sign off to those that, are of a higher authority.

Andy

[SteveH]

Originally Posted by Inland RV Center, In

I have been called worse, but I have 44 plus years of positive credentials, and international recognition.

Again, each person has a right to their opinion.

I really believe this subject has out lived it's public usefullness.

Accordingly, I sign off to those that, are of a higher authority.

Andy

You know Andy, the funny thing about this to me is how you get all bowed up reciting all you experience, and then just leave the thread when it does not go your way. Let's see....fourty four years "positive credentials"....you are either much older than you let on, or you started with your "positive credentials" when you were 20.

And then, even funnier is I don't think you ever stated before that manufacturer recommend weight WD bars were unsafe, just rough riding with a heavy duty truck. But, when I questioned you about it, again you got all bowed up and started stating your "experience", and there were "enough to satisfy". This, with no earlier statement by you, that I remember, that says correct bars were unsafe.

Does it not seem here that you just resent anyone else having some "experience", and then even more resent someone not totally accepting your word as the Gospel? It's like your word based on "experience" is more important than fact.

Think about it.

[Coastalview]

Still believe that over hitching an Airstream will cause damage to your trailer. Weight distrubution is needed for safety when tongue weight affects your tow vehicle period.

I think the topic of what bar ratings are needed are two different subjects. Manufactures specfiy bar ratings versus tongue weights..... Andy mentions damages that may result in this case over hitching to point the trailer and the tow vehicle become so rigid between them that shock loads transfer through the frame of the trailer resulting in unsatisfactory results.
Remember these are just opinions by anyone that posts.
No gospel here nor is Andy's
Some of those insurance claims could be very well damaged being claimed by owners of trailers resulting from rigid hitching, who knows and who really cares if safety is the only factor to one's own concern.
Just make your own decisions and not worry about it
Advice is just what it imply s..... an opinion or recommendation offered as a guide to action
Forums are just opinions, no facts here
Happy streamin'

[SteveH]

Originally Posted by Coastalview

Still believe that over hitching an Airstream will cause damage to your trailer. Weight distrubution is needed for safety when tongue weight affects your tow vehicle period.

Happy streamin'

Don't believe I have ever stated that too heavy of bars would not damage a trailer...only that it has never happened to me.

The thing is, Andy only talks about Reese trunion bars, like there are no other manufactuers or no other types of bars. The other thing that I maintain is that bars, like most any other component, have a capacity....i.e. they may be capable of carrying 1000 pounds per pair. Does not mean they are always carrying 1000 pounds in use. That's determined by how you adjust them.

The other thing is, if Reese bars are capable of causing damage, then every Eaz-i-lift hitch equipped Airstream on the road should be damaged, because those untapered bars a much more stiff than the tapered Reese bars. Don't recall anyone complaining about such damage.

I'm sorry, but Andy's recommendations just do not compute to me.

[Coastalview]

Originally Posted by SteveH

Don't believe I have ever stated that too heavy of bars would not damage a trailer...only that it has never happened to me.

The thing is, Andy only talks about Reese trunion bars, like there are no other manufactuers or no other types of bars. The other thing that I maintain is that bars, like most any other component, have a capacity....i.e. they may be capable of carrying 1000 pounds per pair. Does not mean they are always carrying 1000 pounds in use. That's determined by how you adjust them.

The other thing is, if Reese bars are capable of causing damage, then every Eaz-i-lift hitch equipped Airstream on the road should be damaged, because those untapered bars a much more stiff than the tapered Reese bars. Don't recall anyone complaining about such damage.

I'm sorry, but Andy's recommendations just do not compute to me.

Steve, I know you didn't mention "that too heavy of bars would not damage a trailer"
It's been discussed "so many times in the past that any thread that mentions the word hitch" gets high jacked with opinions on weight distribution. So sorry for my opinions on it.... nice link you posted on draw-Tite receivers

[F450Harley]

Originally Posted by Inland RV Center, In

Use the smallest one they have.

However, my experience says you still have waaaaaaay to much towing equipment, for your 30 foot.

Andy

Andy,
Appreciate your advice and thanks.

[F450Harley]

Originally Posted by 2airishuman

for the majority of haha users bars should be matched to tongue weight.

it is simply that simple.
_________

with the 450, go directly to the scales.

weigh the truck unhitched for the base axle loads.

hook up with the w/d adjusted to ZERO/no tension and re weigh.

assuming the steering axle weight does NOT drop more than 2-300 lbs...

one could keep the w/d tension to a MINIMUM (and not worry about changing w/d bars)

since there may be NO REASON to transfer/redistribute tongue loads.
________

sway control with the PP or haha is not dependent of ANY tension in the w/d bars...

so they can be tensioned JUST ENOUGH to keep the hitch head level on trucks with large bed payloads.

again, it's just that simple.

cheers
2air'

Thanks for your response and advice on this issue.

[Ag&Au]

Originally Posted by F450Harley

Andy,
Appreciate your advice and thanks.

Do you want to trade your truck for my wife's Smart Car, so you can tow safely? (ProPride not included)

[barts]

The issue with stiff bars is this: when vehicles pitch or head up a steep incline, the bars exert a lot more force on the trailer tongue. It would be a lot better if the weight distributing force didn't vary so much with the relative vehicle-trailer angle.

When you use stiff bars and don't bend them as much, your rig is much more sensitive to this then when more flexible bars are bent further.

Ideally, the weight distributing torque would be generated by a more constant force spring; a heavy air cylinder/air bag + small pressure tank come to mind because of the ease of releasing the tension (three way solenoid).

- Bart

[Inland RV Center, In]

SteveH

Things happen to some people and not to others, in many different ways in each of our lifes.

Some people, as an example, get into car wrecks, some do not.

Just because something doesn't happen to one individual, doesn't mean it doesn't happen to others.

This Forums, is supposed to be "knowledge sharing", as a person or as a company, or both, and that is my sole purpose.

Every person can disagree with anything they may choose.

When experience is challenged, it usually is followed with experience as well, demonstrating something realistic. Opinions, are always welcomed, but they still are opinions.

Just because I never crashed an airplane, doesn't mean that someone else will never do it either.

Intelligent exchanging of knowledge, is what lifes all about.

Andy

[SteveH]

Originally Posted by Inland RV Center, In

SteveH

This Forums, is supposed to be "knowledge sharing", as a person or as a company, or both, and that is my sole purpose.

Every person can disagree with anything they may choose.

When experience is challenged, it usually is followed with experience as well, demonstrating something realistic. Opinions, are always welcomed, but they still are opinions.

Intelligent exchanging of knowledge, is what lifes all about.

Andy

Andy, I agree. However, it seems when you give your "experience", you want it taken as fact.

When someone else gives their experience, you say it is just "opinion".

You would do better to realize you are not the only one that did not fall off the turnip truck yesterday.