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Old 11-01-2010, 03:08 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by w7ts View Post
To keep everyone reading this thread informed:

There are definitely different opinions on hitch ratings.

The only place that I have ever heard advice to use hitch equipment (in this case weight distribution bars) rated at less than your trailers actual tongue weight or GVW is on these forums. Every reference that I have seen to do this can be traced back to Andy or someone who has heard it from Andy.

I guarantee you that any hitch manufacturer you contact will tell you to use, at a minimum, the bars rated to carry your trailers tongue weight. I am also sure the warrenty on any hitch you buy will not be honored if you use bars that are not rated high enough to carry the load.

For your own safety and and pocketbook, please talk directly to the hitch manufacturer before you follow the advice to use under rated bars.

It is my opinion that is is not good policy to use any equipment involved in safe towing contrary to the manufacturer's specifications, especially when that use is only recommended by one individual, regardless of the stated years of experience.

Protect Yourself,

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Ken,

I think you are 100% right, and I agree with you. I will trust my trailer, tow vehicle, and my life to a hitch company's degreed engineer any day in front of a repair shop owner who claims to have "years of experience".

I once had a boss who's favorite saying was, "there are those with years of experience, and there are those who have one year's experience many times".

The interesting thing to me about Andy's statements, or rants if you will, about hitches is that every one references the Reese with the square trunion bars.....like there is no other hitch or bar in the world.
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Old 11-01-2010, 03:15 PM   #16
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.................................................. ......

Opinions usually differ from facts, and seldom, if ever, are the facts proven wrong.

But as always, it's the individuals choice to make.

Andy
It is the nature of human communications that very often opinions are stated as fact. Until such time as you actually make available the data supporting what you state as fact, I shall consider them to be your opinions and will support your right to have them. What I won't do is consider your statements to be fact simply because you label them as such and say your experience is the proof.

My intent was not to say that you don't know what you are talking about. My intent was to advise other readers to research on their own the possible dangers of following your advice before doing so.

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Old 11-01-2010, 03:25 PM   #17
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Ken,

I think you are 100% right, and I agree with you. I will trust my trailer, tow vehicle, and my life to a hitch company's degreed engineer any day in front of a repair shop owner who claims to have "years of experience".
Ken.

I also was the only field representative for the old insurance division of Airstream, called Caravanner Insurance Company.

It was part of my job, to examine anything and everything, regarding ANY loss of control accident, specifically towing an Airstream. The data was examined and a conclusion was drawn, that detailed the cause of the "loss of control".

I did that over 1000 (one thousand) times, up to and including appearing in court to testify.

I think most people would regard that as a little more than meager experience.

To my knowledge, to this day, I am the only person in the USA, that investigated that many Airstream loss of control accidents.

However, you are correct, that everyone can challenge or believe anything they wish.

Most people, unless I am mistaken, rely on facts and experiences, far more than any unresearched opinion.

Testing hitch ratings can easily be done, by anyone that wishes to explore the physics and facts related to load equalizing hitches.

Hitch manufacturers all wish to sell hitches. Seldom, if ever, have they promoted the word "safety", in any of their advertising.

Andy
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Old 11-01-2010, 03:26 PM   #18
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No myth here, my measly F250HD 3/4 ton 4WD crewcab shorty powerstroke doesn't feel nor drive any different with weight distribution. Our 28' has 540lbs. of tongue weight. I've driven with and without weight distribution over some same routes with no difference in towing characteristics.
I really doubt my 600lbs. bars are really doing more than just creating a bit of friction for sway control and not transferring any weight forward to my tow vehicle. Bar chains, hitch, set per manufactures specs. No change in visible hitch ball height with and without weight distribution.
I've driven this measley F250- through 9 axle configurations hauling heavy equipment, so driving experience with just about anything possible here in the states has given me some good common sense.

As for an F450? waste of money unless you need to feel secure by having one. Opinions are opinions. Until there's a law requiring over hitching, its a choice.
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Old 11-01-2010, 04:18 PM   #19
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Apparently, Reese doesn't ask what you are towing either.
So Reese would sell me a different Reese hitch than Andy would?
Why shouldn't that bother me? Am I safer with under-rated bars that can't transfer the required amount of weight to the steering axle, or am I safer with heavy bars that may cause damage to the trailer? It seems that safety is not increased by using lighter bars but damage is possibly increased, so lets call it what it is. Popped rivets and buckled skin due to over-hitching is not the same issue as not having weight on your front wheels when you go to make that next turn.
I'll take the popped rivets along with the ability to steer any day.
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Old 11-01-2010, 04:49 PM   #20
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Ken.

I also was the only field representative for the old insurance division of Airstream, called Caravanner Insurance Company.

I did that over 1000 (one thousand) times, up to and including appearing in court to testify.


Andy
A simple question for you Andy....How many of these 1000+ accidents can you show documentation of being caused by using the weight range bars that the hitch manufacturer recommended for the tongue weight of trailer being towed?

Oh, and just so we remember, this thread was started to show where a manufacturer recommends certain hitch RECEIVERS for different vehicles and gives the weight rating for that RECEIVER.
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Old 11-01-2010, 04:59 PM   #21
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It all comes back to what your tow vehicle is. A VW Bug or an F450
The 450 is the most ridgid out of the major 3 big pickup manufactures. Leaf springs stacked a mile high and give the same ride quality. Even at 1,000 lbs. of tongue weight on this monster isn't going to make it unsafe to tow without weight distrbution. You may not even see the the hitch height even drop with a 1,000 lbs. To get any tongue weight forward from the hitch is going take some mighty big bars to transfer that weight through such a chassis.
Why some much emphasis on recreational trailers? Take a look around and see what other trailers are being pulled with no more than a ball.

Yes Steve your right about the title of your thread
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Old 11-01-2010, 05:04 PM   #22
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A simple question for you Andy....How many of these 1000+ accidents can you show documentation of being caused by using the weight range bars that the hitch manufacturer recommended for the tongue weight of trailer being towed?

Oh, and just so we remember, this thread was started to show where a manufacturer recommends certain hitch RECEIVERS for different vehicles and gives the weight rating for that RECEIVER.
No hijack intended.

I have hitch facts, that some disagree with, and that is their choice.

I worked for Caravanner Insurance Company, they didn't.

Andy
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Old 11-01-2010, 05:30 PM   #23
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...I have the Hensley, F450 with 4 wheel drive and 30 ft 2006 classic. What size bar will you recommend. Thanks.
for the majority of haha users bars should be matched to tongue weight.

it is simply that simple.
_________

with the 450, go directly to the scales.

weigh the truck unhitched for the base axle loads.

hook up with the w/d adjusted to ZERO/no tension and re weigh.

assuming the steering axle weight does NOT drop more than 2-300 lbs...

one could keep the w/d tension to a MINIMUM (and not worry about changing w/d bars)

since there may be NO REASON to transfer/redistribute tongue loads.
________

sway control with the PP or haha is not dependent of ANY tension in the w/d bars...

so they can be tensioned JUST ENOUGH to keep the hitch head level on trucks with large bed payloads.

again, it's just that simple.

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Old 11-01-2010, 05:36 PM   #24
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No hijack intended.

I have hitch facts, that some disagree with, and that is their choice.

I worked for Caravanner Insurance Company, they didn't.

Andy
Andy, you failed to answer my question. Again:

A simple question for you Andy....How many of these 1000+ accidents can you show documentation of being caused by using the weight range bars that the hitch manufacturer recommended for the tongue weight of trailer being towed?
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Old 11-01-2010, 06:01 PM   #25
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.How many of these 1000+ accidents can you show documentation of being caused by...
drawing ANY attention to this 40 year old accident nonsense...

only serves to PROMOTE the notion that the investigations were valid on some level...

ANY level.

just take a quick gander at the questions used (as you have already seen them, but others may not...)

(supplemented with historical interviews none of us have access 2...)

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f464...ire-47613.html

while there is nothing wrong with an insurance company (even 40 years ago) investigating claims...

the actual data collected (based on these old questions) is useless in determining what caused those accidents...

and totally irrelevant to anything happening while towing on roadways in this century.

the octopus who predicted world cup wins would be a better dither...

but sadly the eight legged wizard has died.

cheers
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Old 11-01-2010, 06:09 PM   #26
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Andy, you failed to answer my question. Again:

A simple question for you Andy....How many of these 1000+ accidents can you show documentation of being caused by using the weight range bars that the hitch manufacturer recommended for the tongue weight of trailer being towed?
Enough to satisfy.

The question is more "satisfy who"?

You know, I just read that all physics will be discarded after 20 years, so that new researchers will have "jobs".

I think your original post has now gone off track.

Andy
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Old 11-01-2010, 06:39 PM   #27
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Enough to satisfy.

The question is more "satisfy who"?

You know, I just read that all physics will be discarded after 20 years, so that new researchers will have "jobs".

I think your original post has now gone off track.

Andy
Somehow, that's just what I expected....you really can't show any documentation that properly rated hitch bars cause accidents, can you? So, we must assume this is just your thoughts on the matter?

Seems to me, just the opposite would more likely be true. If you adjust a set of 500 pound bars to carry 1000 pounds, those 500 pound bars would be more likely to fail (break) in use, and the resulting rapid change of weight distribution just might actually cause an accident, not to mention the damage that two five or so pounds chunks of steel hurtling down the highway might cause. We've all read about Reese Bars failing in proper application use.

I wonder who would be liable for that damage....the hitch manufacturer, or the user who used them improperly?

And about the thread topic....seems I should have parental rights on that.
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Old 11-01-2010, 08:16 PM   #28
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am in the same boat. Am unsure of how much of a tow bar to use without beating my 1965 Ambassador to pieces. Want to start out with the correct one from the start. Any advice anyone???
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