Does hitch add tongue weight

[Sean Woodruff]

Originally Posted by ROBERTSUNRUS

Hi, you lost me too; Doesn't "MASK" mean to hide or cover-up?

I put mask in quotes because I don't believe that is actually what is happening.

If "X" is a CAUSE of sway and sway does not exist then "X" cannot be a CAUSE of sway.

There is no masking unless one does not use basic logic.

[Sean Woodruff]

Originally Posted by 2airishuman

now you REALLY stepped in it sean...

roger IS the fuzz...

cheers
2air'

Well, then my training for experience example should make sense.

[85MH325]

Originally Posted by 2airishuman

NO point debatin' with 85mh325...

he's towed EVERYTHING with EVERYTHING in EVERY condition imaginable.

and has a...

long history of NOT liking the haha video or ANY testimonial related to ANY hitch...

(don't matter WHAT the customer reports OR what empirical trials have been done)

long history of using $$$ in the equation when there is NO variable related to DOLLARs in the towing formula'ez...

long history of suggesting that it all related to proper/improper set up, including ALL rigs OR drivers that report problems ...

long history of debating what sway IS or is NOT (and only his definition is valid)......

cheers
2air'

Guilty as charged... for some of this. While I don't profess to have towed everything with everything in every imaginable situation, I have towed six different Airstream trailers and another half-dozen fiberglass RV trailers with at least that many tow vehicles from a '92 Toyota 4WD to a '79 F250 supercab long bed many thousands of miles over the past twenty-five years. That has given me some experience(s) many folks probably won't have. And, as far as the definition of sway, I guess those who have had a sway event know what it is; if you're wondering whether or not what you experienced was a sway event, it probably wasn't. That's as close as I can come.

Testimonials are lovely, but they don't prove anything. A comprehensive systematic analysis of crashes involving trailers and weight distributing hitches would be much more valuable; unfortunately I haven't found anything like that either. If that body of work exists, please point me to it. My accident reconstruction background tells me that every accident has multiple contributing factors, and to believe that a single gizmo is a complete fix for a multifaceted and complex issue is... well... simplistic.

So basically, we've got vendors telling us that their testing says that their product is superior to everything else out there; SO superior that they should get 4x the amount of money for them. We have owners of those products cheerleading for their product of choice; again without anything substantive proving that the products perform significantly better than the less expensive alternatives.

So... I'm sorry that my being publicly skeptical of the claims, hype, and cheerleading is so upsetting to some of you. I'm just not a follower, and my practical experience leads me to believe that the factors that contribute to sway aren't magically solved by a hitch setup. It still makes sense to me that a sway control hitch setup of whatever brand should be used AFTER you figure out and correct whatever your issues are, and you really don't need to spend $2500 to achieve that.

What really chaps me though are folks who tell other folks that a product will be the panacea that cures all their ills... that's patent medicine marketing from the turn of the last century.

Roger

[Sean Woodruff]

Originally Posted by 85MH325

Guilty as charged... for some of this. While I don't profess to have towed everything with everything in every imaginable situation, I have towed six different Airstream trailers and another half-dozen fiberglass RV trailers with at least that many tow vehicles from a '92 Toyota 4WD to a '79 F250 supercab long bed many thousands of miles over the past twenty-five years. That has given me some experience(s) many folks probably won't have. And, as far as the definition of sway, I guess those who have had a sway event know what it is; if you're wondering whether or not what you experienced was a sway event, it probably wasn't. That's as close as I can come.

Testimonials are lovely, but they don't prove anything. A comprehensive systematic analysis of crashes involving trailers and weight distributing hitches would be much more valuable; unfortunately I haven't found anything like that either. If that body of work exists, please point me to it. My accident reconstruction background tells me that every accident has multiple contributing factors, and to believe that a single gizmo is a complete fix for a multifaceted and complex issue is... well... simplistic.

Do you see the irony in these two pragraphs?

Originally Posted by 85MH325

So basically, we've got vendors telling us that their testing says that their product is superior to everything else out there; SO superior that they should get 4x the amount of money for them. We have owners of those products cheerleading for their product of choice; again without anything substantive proving that the products perform significantly better than the less expensive alternatives.

To use your words, your analysis of business and product pricing is simplistic. It's the exact logic used by people who value MONEY over performance.

Originally Posted by 85MH325

So... I'm sorry that my being publicly skeptical of the claims, hype, and cheerleading is so upsetting to some of you. I'm just not a follower, and my practical experience leads me to believe that the factors that contribute to sway aren't magically solved by a hitch setup. It still makes sense to me that a sway control hitch setup of whatever brand should be used AFTER you figure out and correct whatever your issues are, and you really don't need to spend $2500 to achieve that.

Again, not an ounce of logic in this paragraph. "Factors that contribute to sway" need to be "solved" when THERE IS NOT ANY SWAY? Why is one of your factors any more important than the hitch factor? You have an ad hominem argument here, sir.

Originally Posted by 85MH325

What really chaps me though are folks who tell other folks that a product will be the panacea that cures all their ills... that's patent medicine marketing from the turn of the last century.

Roger

I don't think I have ever slapped a Momma, let alone yours, but you insist on insulting my professionalism by hurling ignorant insults at what I spend my life doing.

Whether you would EVER purchase one of my products really isn't of consequence to me. I never knew you existed before tonight and I've been just fine. What is sad is I imagine all the opportunities you have missed, the people you have insulted, the friends you have not had, due to the attitude you have displayed here. Just sad.

Good luck, and good night, sir.

[ROBERTSUNRUS]

Hi, I have to make a public confession; I did omitt the fact that my Safari, once, [note: only once] swayed, violently from side to side, and was completely uncontrollable. But it was safely parked in my driveway during a California 6.0 Earth Quake.

[Sean Woodruff]

Originally Posted by ROBERTSUNRUS

Hi, I have to make a public confession; I did omitt the fact that my Safari, once, [note: only once] swayed, violently from side to side, and was completely uncontrollable.___________________________________ ________________ But it was safely parked in my driveway during a California 6.0 Earth quake.

I'll be standing on the tailgate of my covered wagon in your town real soon. Just buy a bottle of my "Earthquake Elixer" and rub it on the 'stream. It will deflect, and reflect, all sway inducing forces up to 9.0 on the Richter scale. Guaranteed or your money back. (Small print: You have to bring the unopened bottle to my next stop and detail how you used the product and applied it to get your money back.)

[ROBERTSUNRUS]

Hi, Sean. If we ever get a 9.0, I think the party will be over.

[Janet H]

Originally Posted by Sean Woodruff

Whether you would EVER purchase one of my products really isn't of consequence to me. I never knew you existed before tonight and I've been just fine. What is sad is I imagine all the opportunities you have missed, the people you have insulted, the friends you have not had, due to the attitude you have displayed here. Just sad.

Good luck, and good night, sir.

Wow...

YouTube - Somebody Needs A Hug-Keith Anderson

[Sean Woodruff]

Originally Posted by Janet

Wow...

Thank you, Janet. I'm certainly open to the idea. Some people aren't even aware they might need one until someone points it out and they accept that others are just better at hugging than what they are used to. They may have been hugged all their life, ever so gently, and then along comes a big bear hug and hugs take on a whole new level of hugginess. But, it will never happen if they have their arms crossed.

[Relentless]

Hey, moderator. don't you think its about time you get involved? I think the sarcasm has crossed the line to insult.

[dkottum]

A little argument is good, and okay in my book. There are always at least two sides to every topic, and both are usually right.

While the hitch is overkill for some, its just extra safe to me. I'll soon be an old geezer.

2air' My Tundra manual says under "Weight Limits", "Weight carrying hitch or distributing hitch", "Double cab (4 wheel drive) models with towing package 670 lbs".

The unloaded tongue weight of the trailer is 600 lbs, and with with liquid tanks in back and storage in front, I make a point to load it evenly and lightly.

Doug

[ROBERTSUNRUS]

Originally Posted by dkottum

My Tundra manual says under "Weight Limits", "Weight carrying hitch or distributing hitch", "Double cab (4 wheel drive) models with towing package 670 lbs".
Doug

Hi, Doug. Check for a sticker, actually on your receiver, to see if it has information similar to what I posted. Most of the factory receivers have one.

[2airishuman]

Originally Posted by dkottum

...My Tundra manual says under "Weight Limits", "Weight carrying hitch or distributing hitch", "Double cab (4 wheel drive) models with towing package 670 lbs"...

gotcha d'

ok that's MUCH clearer.

u might need to scan a tundra forum,

but IF this number is a result of the oem RECEIVER limit (and the bolts that mount it)

start looking for a receiver with ONE class higher rating. (class IV?)

regardless of where we apportion the PP load, i would want MORE capacity in the receiver than what the manual suggests is there.

these after market receivers aren't expensive or hard to attach and won't weigh MUCH.

in fact the one jammer linked in post #2 looks perfect at 1000/10,000 with w/d gear.

cheers
2air'

[ROBERT CROSS]

Time 'ta go hitch-up and some sway......Hi Ho HaHa......Away

[Secguru]

I will not play at tug o'war.
I'd rather play at hug o'war,
Where everyone hugs
Instead of tugs,
Where everyone giggles
And rolls on the rug,
Where everyone kisses,
And everyone grins,
And everyone cuddles,
And everyone wins.

Shel Silverstein
from Where the Sidewalk Ends

[overlander63]

While I haven't towed everything everywhere in every condition, I have towed travel trailers using:


Drop on the ball

Eaz-Lift WD only

Eaz-Lift WD with friction sway bar

Reese Dual Cam

Reese Strait Line

HAHA

Using customer's equipment, trailers and tow vehicles.
The experiences have ranged from "holy crap!" to "tows like a dream". When properly set up, each system on my list above has functioned better than the others, in the order I posted them. Strangely enough, there was an issue with the Strait Line, which turned out the bars were not both the same length, and caused an interesting towing experience until we figured it out. I haven't had the opportunity to use Sean's product, but can assume (and you know what happens when you assume) it's at least as good as a HAHA, since it is the "new, improved" version.
Every tow vehicle might not benefit from Sean's product, but I know the ones I drove that were equipped with the predecessor model certainly did. And that's in reality all we can do, is give recommendations based on experience.

Oh, and the PP hitch doesn't add to tongue weight, but does add to hitch weight, which is weight carried by the receiver.

[G1obetrotter]

i just recently got a 2004 4runner to tow my 63 globetrotter. i started a thread to get some feedback on how to set it up safely to tow the gt but havent gotten that much information. i am a total newbie at this and it would be great if somebody or anybody could make some recommendations as to what setup i should be aiming for.

thanks

paul

[tjdonahoe]

My duel cam reese has been coast to coast several times with no problems, I do like it, I had a Hensley and sold it with my 04 30' classic, don't need it....