Do I NEED sway control??

[ROBERT CROSS]

"I am a test engineer I have to have more than BS to buy something."

Perry,

Please keep us posted on where your BS/data thesis takes you.

Bob

[perryg114]

Andy do you have some links so I can read up on the torsion type sway control hitches? What brands use this technology?

I think the main stability issues with the SOB trailers is they are top heavy which makes them unstable in roll. They are also more suspectable to cross winds because of the higher drag.

My mind is not made up Andy but I would rather fill it with facts and not the smelly stuff.

Perry

Originally Posted by Inland RV Center, In

Perry.

The very best sway control, is not friction, but torsion.

I don't wish to change your mind, but an Airstream, is a "very unstable" trailer to tow.

Why??

SOB's typically have a flat front. That creates tons of wind resistance, which also acts, to some degree, like a sway control.

Airstream, on the other hand, is very aerodynamically clean, which offers very little wind resistance. Therefore one must use better equipment to tow an Airstream than an SOB.

Try pulling a flat fronted trailer at high speed, like 90 to 100 mph. It won't happen.

But with an Airstream, even a loaded 31 footer, you can easily tow over 100 mph with a car.

Years ago, as a test, an empty 5 X 8 boxed U-haul was towed with a 1973 Buick at a maxed out speed of 85 mph.

Additional testing, with the same tow vehicle, towed a loaded 31 foot Airstream at 115 mph.

That answers which design was cleaner, and which design required top notch load equalizing hitches with sway control.

But again, to each his own choices.

Andy

[Mikethefixit]

I am afraid Im with Andy. His ideas may be stuck in the 70's according to some people but the physic's never change. I use an old REESE Dual cam/Straightline. I have purposely dropped the right side wheels off the pavement and back on,just to see the reaction(profession drivers only)and I get no sway at all. Dont try this without sway control of some kind.
I gave about $150 bucks for my setup USED on Craigslist. Trust me they are out there and ya dont have to spend a GAZILLION BUCKS on a hitch.Mine came with 550 lb bars and that with the 1 ton gives us a smooth ocean wave ride. We leave things on the galley counter and the tv on the credensa without a problem. WE do have new axles under the 77 so that helps too.
Our F350 weighs in at just over 8000 lbs full of fuel and ready to rock and roll. To answer the question directly. YES I believe you NEED SWAY CONTROL and WD. ITS a small investment in your safety and the safety of the other motoring public.
BETTER TO HAVE IT and NOT NEED IT than TO NEED IT AND NOT HAVE IT.

[perryg114]

Well I can probably sell my other two hitches and probably about break even with a new hitch.

Perry

[Inland RV Center, In]

Originally Posted by perryg114

Andy do you have some links so I can read up on the torsion type sway control hitches? What brands use this technology?

I think the main stability issues with the SOB trailers is they are top heavy which makes them unstable in roll. They are also more suspectable to cross winds because of the higher drag.

My mind is not made up Andy but I would rather fill it with facts and not the smelly stuff.

Perry

Perry.

Caravanner Insurane, the old insurance division of Airstream was closed down about 30 years ago.

Data such as you want, has been destroyed when Caravanner Insurance closed down.

But, for that matter, NO hitch manufaturer has EVER done any testing.

I personally settled and examined over 1000 "loss of control" accidents, specifically towing an Airstream.

That, certainly is a huge experience factor, that resulted in the ability to predict when someone is more than likely to have a loss of control accident, and someone who won't.

But again, non believers can go their way, as always.

This subject, from time to time, comes up again.

I do not wish to argue with anyone, regarding these issues, as I have stated before.

But, I do invited those doubters to establish their own tests, and spend their time and money, if they wish to challenge the facts. Hitch manufacturers, INCLUDED.

Andy

[DMT]

Originally Posted by perryg114

Well I can probably sell my other two hitches and probably about break even with a new hitch.

Perry

Hi Perry,

I'm an engineer as well. In the absence of test data, and with an inability to conduct representative testing what are we left with? Use your engineering judgement and intuition. I know the WD function of the Reese Strait- line works because I've been through the scales. As for the sway control, examine the design. Set up properly it has to offer a restorative moment to the pivot point. I don't know how much, but obviously more than without it.

I watched several set up video's on etrailer.com and read all the manufacturers documentation I could find. I also took Andy's advice and changed my 1200# torsion bars to 800# to more closely match the 700# tongue weight of my Intnl. Cost me $200 but I felt it was worth it. (hitch was AS dealer installed - surprised at how little information they gave me on the hitch, given how vital it is).

Don

[TG Twinkie]

I feel the need for equalizer and sway control would be determined by the combination of the TV and Trailer. If you have what is considered a light weight TV where the steering axle is affected by the tongue weight of the trailer then some sort of equalizer would seem practical.
But if you have a 3/4 ton or larger ( long wheel based) TV and you are towing a trailer with a tongue weigh significantly lower than the cargo carrying capacity of the TV. I believe it may be detrimental to the trailer and result in a harder ride, thus popping rivets etc. Sway control is another issue and may be required.
The idea of preventing the two units from flexing vertically is not logical in my mind. It would be akin to bolting the two units together in the middle. Causing frame stress, especially on the trailer.
Along with consideration of weight distribution and sway control. A larger concern would be how the two units (TV and Trailer) match up.
One of the infamous ads for AS shows a bicycle towing a trailer. What the ad fails to show is, how the bicycle handles the trailer on a sharp curve or in a quick stop situation. Obviously the bike may handle the situation more positively if it weighed in at 6000#.
In my situation the TV out weighs the trailer when both are loaded, they are very close to the same length. I travel mainly on 2 lane roads at speeds not exceeding 60mph. I don't have an equalizer hitch or sway control. Have never had a problem with big trucks or cross winds bucking the trailer. Have made numerous emergency stop and maneuvers with out problems.
Proper tire pressure on both vehicles and brake setup are one of my top priorities when it comes to towing.
That's my 2 cents worth.

[tinman1]

Perry,

I understand your question. Based on several previous years use of a Reese WD hitch with a tension sway control bar as compared to the present Reese Dual Cam Strait-line WD/sway control combination.

Without having personally having experienced use of both Reese products, I possibly would have had some doubt myself; however, my personal opinion is - there is a great difference between the two.

Previous experience with the Reese WD and sway bar, I would definitely feel the side movement most times I met or passed a tractor trailer - the tendency was there to have a little unusual motion (possibly uncomfortable at times).

My experience with the Reese Dual Cam Strait-line WD/sway control was totally different. On a recent trip from south of Chicago to home base (approximately 750 miles), I might have felt a very slight movement a couple of times, however, my overall experience with the Reese Dual Cam has been 98-99% better than with the Reese WD/tension sway bar combo.

Best of luck to you in your decision.

[slowmover]

A WDH is set up using a static measure that is representative of a dynamic, so to speak. A small percentage thereof. The forces exerted by a trailer that is "upset" (how, is irrelevant) can be many thousands of pounds over that static value. TV payload capacity, or TV weight, don't mean much overall when things get hinky. The tail wags the dog, and trailers far smaller/lower/lighter than the A/S above can upset even a bigger TV with unfortunate results. I've seen it, more than once.

One might better ask why it is so important to avoid spending pennies (relative to other costs). What is at stake over losing an afternoon of setting up the proper hitch the proper way? As there are more than a dozen threads on this forum answering this very same question one has to wonder at [feigned?] recalcitrance to the question posed.

And any of us can follow you with a video camera and show you that the TT doesn't track the TV nearly as well as you think. Plus, pickups are notorious for having poor steering feedback. False confidence breeds contempt.

Both first and second tier anti-sway hitches are cheap enough.

Do some more reading via searches.

.

[perryg114]

We are getting to the point where computer simulations are pretty darn good if some of these companies that make hitches or DOT for that matter would do simulations of the hitch designs that could be evaluated for how well they control stability. I am sure the lighter the tow vehicle the more the tail wags the dog. I have a heavy tow vehicle (Ford Excursion) and that is in my favor. I have two load distributing hitches both with the friction sway control. I did change out my load bars to the 750lb ones. The ones that came with the hitch that came with the trailer were much heavier. I would say at least 1000lbs. The friction sway control does not provide the restorative moment. Does the restorative moment help or hurt when you are sideways or does it just help to keep you from getting sideways? They say not to use the friction sway system in the rain. I wonder why?

Perry

Originally Posted by DMT

Hi Perry,

I'm an engineer as well. In the absence of test data, and with an inability to conduct representative testing what are we left with? Use your engineering judgement and intuition. I know the WD function of the Reese Strait- line works because I've been through the scales. As for the sway control, examine the design. Set up properly it has to offer a restorative moment to the pivot point. I don't know how much, but obviously more than without it.

I watched several set up video's on etrailer.com and read all the manufacturers documentation I could find. I also took Andy's advice and changed my 1200# torsion bars to 800# to more closely match the 700# tongue weight of my Intnl. Cost me $200 but I felt it was worth it. (hitch was AS dealer installed - surprised at how little information they gave me on the hitch, given how vital it is).

Don

[SteveH]

Originally Posted by perryg114

They say not to use the friction sway system in the rain. I wonder why?

Perry

Don't know for sure, but I suspect it is because when the thing gets wet it sticks, pops, and groans.

[SteveH]

Don't know about the rest of you, but I have a lot of money tied up in my rig, for a retired blue collar worker anyway, and I've used both types of the Reese Dual Cam hitch, both older and new....I've used two different styles of the Eazylift hitches with the friction sway devise. All this considered, and considering my family and I ride in this rig, and from my experieces with all these hitches, $2500 for the ProPride hitch is absolutely THE BEST money I have ever spent on RVing.

After using the ProPride for two seasons now, and approximately 35,000 miles, I would never go back to the lesser type WD hitches.

And, not like some on here, I do not sell hitches, nor am I in any way affiliated with ProPride other than being a happy customer.

[Sean Woodruff]

I would absolutely LOVE for someone to put together independent testing on ALL the hitch designs available.

I WILL pay my share of the costs. If you can get Reese, Equalizer and/or ANY of the others we can all pay an equal amount of the testing and reporting costs. I will even pay to host the data for the entire world to see and read.

Who has the pull with these other manufacturers to make this happen?


-

[cms4140]

Originally Posted by Sean Woodruff

I would absolutely LOVE for someone to put together independent testing on ALL the hitch designs available.

I WILL pay my share of the costs. If you can get Reese, Equalizer and/or ANY of the others we can all pay an equal amount of the testing and reporting costs. I will even pay to host the data for the entire world to see and read.

Who has the pull with these other manufacturers to make this happen?


-

Seems like you might be the best candidate, Sean .

I'd love to see this information too - would even pay to see it.

-Chris

[Sean Woodruff]

Originally Posted by cms4140

Seems like you might be the best candidate, Sean .

I'd love to see this information too - would even pay to see it.

-Chris

I have NO PULL with any of them...

I'm not sure they want the truth to be known...

[dznf0g]

Dunno, would RVIA be interested in that? NHTSA perhaps? IIHS maybe? Somebody will have to probably force the issue for all to participate.

[ROBERT CROSS]

It's almost impossible to explain to others what it's like to drive a rig that is not plagued with sway....I gave up trying.

But I have let three fellow campers drive our rig,(all 3 SOB owners), with me along. "well yours is an AS and that tow's well to begin with", how will mine react. Very impressed but still skeptical.

You just don't know how it feels 'til you try it, kind'a like sex, once you try it you'll never do it the "other way" again

Bob

[slowmover]

Same as drum brakes or bias tires being adequate, when disc brakes and radials are much superior. Some don't want to hear it.

[perryg114]

Well Sean you could start by testing your hitch compared to on the ball towing and that might get the ball rolling. If you have data to support your claims about added stability then maybe you can shame the others into doing the same or at least take their customers.

You could do slalom tests with and without your hitch. You could also do wet braking tests and intentional skid tests. You could start with a used SOB trailer and get some test parameters down and then use other trailers like Airstreams. I would also have a small tow vehicle and large one. I expect you are going to see the most benefit with the small vehicles and big trailers. What happens when you start a skid? Does the hitch help or hurt. Does it prevent the onset of skid or oscillation?

Perry

Originally Posted by Sean Woodruff

I would absolutely LOVE for someone to put together independent testing on ALL the hitch designs available.

I WILL pay my share of the costs. If you can get Reese, Equalizer and/or ANY of the others we can all pay an equal amount of the testing and reporting costs. I will even pay to host the data for the entire world to see and read.

Who has the pull with these other manufacturers to make this happen?


-

[slowmover]

I expect you are going to see the most benefit with the small vehicles and big trailers.

Let's try another way of looking at it:

Which can get through the slalom faster: a pickup truck or a sedan?

If the trailer is an A/S it'll be faster behind the sedan.

If weight and size were the determinant we'd pull 40' park trailers, wouldn't we? But they've poor performance, to say the least. High COG, non-existent aero, etc, etc. However, it's weight makes it resistant to problems . . and then it isn't.

So why should the TV be any different?

Most folks tend to think the trailer is the weak link . . but reality is that a high COG, crudely-suspended TV is or can be more of a problem.

Greater TV weight only delays problem onset for a moment longer. A lower COG TV with better suspension doesn't run into the same problems . . and if it does, is better able to move on down the road without incident. Incidents -- tripping hazards especially -- that will upset the larger TV.

Folks also tend to believe that a 5'er is more stable. The high COG and huge sail area are not overcome as a huge disadvantage. A TT with a VPP hitch replicates the 5'er hitch advantage, and an A/S is far better able to negotiate problems a 5'er never could. Run rings around it, in fact.

Any TV performs better with a VPP. But it will be the (worst case) 4WD pickup that benefits the most.

A/S? Travel at high speed!
Pickup? Travel at slow speed!

The potential performance margin is reduced by the choice of an inferior performing TV (for our actual travel speed matters little given reasonable prudence).

The safest trailer for the worst performing vehicle -- a pickup -- is an Airstream. Be a good idea to have the best hitch while one is about it.

.