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Old 01-09-2016, 11:00 PM   #477
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I seriously doubt a 22' Argosy that weighs under 3500# can toss a 3/4 ton truck (which weighs over ~6500# empty) around like a pull toy, but again this is not the first unbelievable thing I've read on this forum.

Hi, that's what a 165 lb. man said after my 22 lb. dog yanked him off of his feet. I warned him, but he didn't believe me.
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Old 01-10-2016, 09:38 AM   #478
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Would it be correct to say that too low a tongue weight percentage, rather than lack of sway control, was the root cause of the 22' Argosy tossing the 3/4 ton truck around?

And, would it be correct to say that having sway control wouldn't necessarily have prevented the truck from being tossed around


Hi Ron

Certainly the low hitch weight was the principal cause, a sway control certainly would have dampened it a lot and made it much easier to handle. The point I was trying to make though (and maybe did not make very well) was that just because a vehicle is big and heavy it does not mean you should ignore connecting properly.

People often think that if the vehicle is big enough they can ignore everything else I think that is why we see more trailers rolled on comparatively large vehicles. On a smaller lighter vehicle if it is not connected right it talks to you, you know something is not right. The bulk masks a lot until the unexpected happens.

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Old 01-10-2016, 10:03 AM   #479
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When a pendulum starts to swing, the heavier it is, the harder it is to stop. If the pendulum is your tv......
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Old 01-10-2016, 12:06 PM   #480
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Just questioning the statement made on post #475 that the Honda has a two foot wider suspension stance than a Ford 250. As per 2016 spec's the Honda has a 68.2" vs Ford at 67.2". Fail to see 2' difference here!! Rated towing capacity of Honda is 3500 lb vs Ford of 12,500. These are factory spec's taken off the company website.
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Old 01-10-2016, 04:33 PM   #481
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The springs on the live axle in the F250 are about 43" apart on center. So even though the track is 67" wide the suspension pivots side to side on a base 43" wide. Picture it if the springs were right beside each other in the center of the axle they would have a stance of about 6" and the truck would fall over to one side so the wider the springs are apart the wider the stance is. Because the Honda has independent rear suspension the stance is projected out to the width of the track.

In the Early 80's we figured out that independent rear suspension was great for towing but very few potential tow vehicles had it unless you spent big money on a Large Mercedes. When the 87 GM H cars (Olds 88 & 98 Buick Park Ave) were introduced we finally had a reasonably priced tow vehicle with 4 wheel independent suspension we put hitches on 400 of them but live axles were still the most common set up.

Today there are very few vehicles with Live Axles, Pick ups, Suburbans, Tahoes, Toyota 4Runners and Lexus 570's. The other advantage of an independent rear suspension is that you have a fraction of the unsprung weight this keeps the tires planted on the road much better over bumps and gives you a much smoother ride without making the suspension softer.

This is a neat link from Ford the idea of this video is to show how much stronger Fords chassis but look at the difference between the front and rear tires on the trucks. The front suspension is independent and the tires stay planted the live rear axles are all over the place.
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Old 01-11-2016, 07:59 AM   #482
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It would not make sense to put Independent suspension on most pickups because the chassis is just going to flex more if you widen the stance. The exception is the Honda Ridgline which is a unit body.
I don't think this is related to flex. My understanding is that pickups don't have independent suspension as independent suspension wears heavily when under heavy load. Its also more expensive to purchase/repair, and cannot handle the load a solid axle can handle. Its just not practical to use independent suspension on a vehicle designed primarily to haul/tow.
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Old 01-11-2016, 09:25 AM   #483
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This is a neat link from Ford the idea of this video is to show how much stronger Fords chassis but look at the difference between the front and rear tires on the trucks. The front suspension is independent and the tires stay planted the live rear axles are all over the place.
It's an interesting video, but I didn't see any load in the beds of those trucks.
Perhaps having about 1000# more on the front suspension than on the rear also had something to do with the differences in front-end bounce versus rear-end bounce.

It would be more interesting to see similar videos with the trucks towing a 1000# tongue weight trailer.

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Old 01-11-2016, 12:10 PM   #484
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The springs on the live axle in the F250 are about 43" apart on center. So even though the track is 67" wide the suspension pivots side to side on a base 43" wide. Picture it if the springs were right beside each other in the center of the axle they would have a stance of about 6" and the truck would fall over to one side so the wider the springs are apart the wider the stance is. Because the Honda has independent rear suspension the stance is projected out to the width of the track.

Andrew T
Apparently, "It is your world, we just live in it." There is no way that an F350 or 250 that is capable of easily carrying 4000 or more pounds cabover camper in the bed is less stable than a Honda when both are compared only towing a trailer that has perhaps a tongue weight of 1000 pounds. So the springs are a little closer to the center on the Ford, that has all been calculated by the manufacturer and for only about 1000 or so tongue weight it is probably a moot point. I am not buying your assertion that the location/placement of springs is that big of a deal when towing a travel trailer.
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Old 01-11-2016, 01:30 PM   #485
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It's basic physics in vehicle stability.
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Old 01-11-2016, 04:23 PM   #486
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I think Andrew T. has some video on his Can-Am website showing the stability of various vehicles towing travel trailers through quick lane changes, like we might encounter when someone pulls out suddenly in front of you, or a youngster runs onto the roadway, or something falls off a truck in front of you on the interstate. The truck-based vehicles struggle, the minivans and autos with independent suspension do much better, even towing large trailers.
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Old 01-11-2016, 05:32 PM   #487
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I would love to see a video of a minivan towing an 8000# trailer up/down a grade. I believe that is a much more realistic test of a vehicle's towing capabilities.
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Old 01-11-2016, 06:40 PM   #488
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Sway prevention comes in many forms. My ford has electronic sway control where it will do clever things with the brakes if sway starts up.

As I tend to tow a lot through mountains I have invested in a 3P hitch, in my opinion it is the best way to deal with trailer sway.

Your mileage may vary.
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Old 01-12-2016, 04:39 PM   #489
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I would love to see a video of a minivan towing an 8000# trailer up/down a grade. I believe that is a much more realistic test of a vehicle's towing capabilities.

It'll be faster than me in my current Class 8 tractor/trailer. It's an irrelevant test.
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Old 01-12-2016, 08:05 PM   #490
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It'll be faster than me in my current Class 8 tractor/trailer. It's an irrelevant test.
So, a slalom test in a closed circuit under ideal conditions on perfectly level road is relevant, yet an actual tow up/down a grade is irrelevant?
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