Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 10-22-2011, 01:39 PM   #295
CLOUDSPLITTER "Tahawas"
 
ROBERT CROSS's Avatar

 
2003 25' Classic
Zanadude Nebula , WNY
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 11,153
Images: 1
Thumbs up

This is still my favorite.....


Bob
__________________

__________________
PFC.....

“After all these years the reason I continue to love Thanksgiving.....I still sit at the kids table.”
RLC

Sandra wanted to go to Cleveland on vacation,
but I’m the Husband, so we went to Cleveland.
RLC
ROBERT CROSS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2011, 02:27 PM   #296
Rivet Master
 
Gene's Avatar
 
2008 25' Safari FB SE
Grand Junction , Colorado
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 10,842
There seems to be a direct relationship between the length of hitch threads and the lack of facts. It does not seem to be in anyone's perceived economic interests to actually test all of this with contemporary tow vehicles, trailers and hitches. There are a lot of educated guesses here and there are statements by the more knowledgeable address part of the problem, but not all of it.

To test hitches, trailers and tow vehicles would be incredibly expensive if you test every trailer and tow vehicle. At least there are fewer hitches to test. And what about tires—lots of those too and they make a difference (ST vs. LT, for example). I suppose testing drivers would be a good idea since some really have no experience, but there are so many variables no one could easily design such a study.

I would think Sean would want to have an independent lab test his hitch in some circumstances (who could afford all of them?) to see how it performs and to, if it does well, aid in marketing. But I don't know the costs. Maybe if Sean has his tested, others may follow, but if their results are bad, I doubt they would release the results. Maybe a university lab would do it to educate engineering students, but finding a university to do this may be very difficult, but would be great if it were done.

I have never run alongside the trailer or followed it, so all I have are impressions. Our experience with the Equalizer has been good just like Bob Sunrus. We too have gone to Alaska and over very bad roads with no sway. I once made a panic stop on an interstate and no sway. I do not understand how panic stops cause more crashes since panic stops are by definition part of a bad situation and more likely to be part of an accident situation.

I also don't understand how wet bars sticking is a problem because I thought water was a lubricant and would reduce sticking. It is not a very good lubricant compared to grease, but still a lubricant. Equalizer sells a lubricant for the bars and says it does not affect necessary friction, but I wouldn't use it because it doesn't make sense to me. I am not a friction engineer, so maybe common sense does not apply because common sense often is an excuse for ignorance.

And I wonder about the light vs. heavy tow vehicle controversy. Is this "conventional wisdom"? I think the heavier tow vehicle would probably have bigger and better brakes and therefore less reliance on the trailer brakes, so a heavier tow vehicle would have that advantage over a light TV. My understanding is that a light TV tends to get pushed by the trailer more and that feels dangerous to me—trailer drum brakes are not as effective as discs and the TV most likely has discs, and I rather have big brakes for most stopping. If you see the trailer out your side window, none of this matters.

As for lawyers and liability, showing that someone read this thread would have little effect because you would still have to prove the reader understood what was said. Since completely opposite opinions are posted here, it proves nothing. There are some bad lawyers and they get more notice than good ones, but to say lawyers are sharks or any other such claim is the same as saying because there are some bad RV shops, all RV shops are bad. I have noticed people who claim lawyers are bad are quick to hire them when they need to.

A note to engineers: some of you post in jargon and the rest of us don't understand you. It is hard to explain technical details to us laymen, but necessary to make your point. I am very interested in what engineers post because it might help me understand this better.

Carry on….

Gene
__________________

__________________
Gene is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2011, 01:42 AM   #297
3 Rivet Member
 
Currently Looking...
Sunset Beach , California
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS View Post
This is still my favorite.....[/URL]


Bob
Get's my vote!

Rion
__________________
GinMame (Rion & Nobuko DuVall)
AIR# 58703
TAC CA-24
GinMame is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2011, 10:06 AM   #298
4 Rivet Member
 
Zigidachs's Avatar
 
2011 30' Classic
Ridgefield , Washington
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 297
Images: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lumatic View Post
This is a favorite thread of mine. Kind of the immovable object versus the irresistable force thing. I suspect the majority of advocates of sway control are democrats and the skeptics are republicans.
My dad always said that those who discus politics, money, and religion will eventually make the worst of enemies from the best of friends.
__________________
Zigidachs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2011, 10:25 AM   #299
Rivet Master
 
Gene's Avatar
 
2008 25' Safari FB SE
Grand Junction , Colorado
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 10,842
We have friends from all sides of politics, religion and with various degrees of money, and we all get along—friendship is much more than all those things. People who want enemies can always make them or find them.

Gene
__________________
Gene is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2011, 12:49 PM   #300
4 Rivet Member
 
2005 28' Safari
saline , Michigan
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 408
Perhaps it would be helpful if some of the more experienced and knowledgible on the subject, would actualy list some causes of the kind of sway that causes a loss of control. Then , maybe, we could see the benefits of having a sway control hitch.
__________________
Kosm1o is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2011, 01:48 PM   #301
Maniacal Engineer
 
barts's Avatar
 
1971 25' Tradewind
Menlo Park , California
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,223
Images: 1
Blog Entries: 4
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kosm1o View Post
Perhaps it would be helpful if some of the more experienced and knowledgible on the subject, would actualy list some causes of the kind of sway that causes a loss of control. Then , maybe, we could see the benefits of having a sway control hitch.
The problem is that uncontrolled oscillations of the trailer can have a variety of contributing causes, and not all accidents blamed on sway are actually the result of trailer oscillations, leading to much confusion and many arguments :-).

Number one factor contributing to trailer sway is incorrect loading; either insufficient tongue weight or high polar moments (all the weight at the ends of the trailer) can cause sway all by themselves. As far as I know, no anti-sway system will prevent sway if the trailer is sufficiently incorrectly loaded, although they may prevent problems in marginal cases.

Some other contributing factors (I won't try to rank these):

* Excessive speed... speed shows up in most math models of trailer dynamics; the higher the speed both the more likely sway is to happen and the more violent it can be.

* Incorrect driver reactions; some drivers attempt to correct for trailer motion; depending on the dynamics of the combined TV & trailer system this can actually make things worse. If the tow vehicle reacts to trailer motion, this can require conscious restraint on the part of the driver. Note that math models of trailer behavior generally DO NOT include the driver as part of the dynamic system; I believe that understanding some of the more complex aspects of vehicle behavior requires modeling the driver.

* Tow vehicle suspensions (including tires) with insufficient sideways stiffness. will cause the tow vehicle to appear to wiggle around; this will increase the odds that the driver does the wrong thing.

* While not really trailer sway, I think that some accidents blamed on sway are actually caused by incorrectly adjusted trailer brakes... if the trailer is too lightly braked, it can push the tow vehicle. If the tow vehicle doesn't have working ABS on the rear wheels the rig can start to jack knife; if the driver then releases the brakes suddenly vehicles can overturn. Over braked trailers can cause worse problems; locked up trailer wheels generate no side forces and less braking than the TV, so a jack knife is very likely... and if the driver releases the brakes in reaction the trailer can overturn.

- Bart
__________________
Bart Smaalders
Menlo Park, CA
http://tinpickle.blogspot.com
http://smaalders.net/barts
barts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2011, 02:26 PM   #302
Rivet Master
Airstream Dealer
 
Inland RV Center, In's Avatar
 
Corona , California
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 16,499
Images: 1
Bart.

I agree with your comments above.

We also felt very storngly, that disorientation played a hand in loss of control.

Typically, when a brain says go that way, or turn the steering wheel that way, to get out of a sway, it's exactly backwards, since the "seat of our pants" takes over instead of our eye sight.

Our "inner ear" (cochlea) plays a very important part in that, granted to a small degree, but in fact does have a negative effect.

Motion, combined with some speed, can and does, cause many seemingly impossible things to the human brain.

Andy
__________________
Inland RV Center, In is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2011, 03:10 PM   #303
Rivet Master
 
Lumatic's Avatar

 
1971 25' Tradewind
1993 34' Excella
Currently Looking...
Estancia , New Mexico
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 6,642
Images: 16
Blog Entries: 1
I would add road conditions to Bart's excellent list: dirt, gravel, uneven surface, snow and ice, wet pavement.

Also, weather, especially wind.

And speaking of wind, the pressure wave from passing larger vehicles.
__________________
Sail on silver girl. Sail on by. Your time has come to shine.
Lumatic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2011, 03:38 PM   #304
Rivet Master
 
SteveH's Avatar
 
2005 39' Land Yacht 390 XL 396
Common Sense , Texas
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 5,311
Quote:
Originally Posted by boondockdad View Post
Polls are no more than popularity surveys, and what is most popular is frequently the cheapest, not the best.
__________________
Regards,
Steve
SteveH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2011, 06:06 PM   #305
Rivet Master
 
boondockdad's Avatar
 
2008 30' Classic S/O
Dearborn , Michigan
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,295
Images: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveH View Post
Polls are no more than popularity surveys, and what is most popular is frequently the cheapest, not the best.
The only thing cheap, has been your 2 cents on the topic.
None of this is scientific. Play along, why don't you?
__________________
boondockdad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2011, 06:08 PM   #306
4 Rivet Member
 
2005 28' Safari
saline , Michigan
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 408
So, of the causes of sway, which of them will an anti-sway hitch likely help? And how much is it likely to help? Some, it appears, don't give the Equilizer hitch very good marks for the friction anti-sway it has. Yet many on this forum use them with great success. I am guessing that anti-sway is more about proper set-up and safe-driving and maybe less about the hitch. I ask this because I have many miles behind the wheel pulling many types of trailers without incident. Now I have an Airstream that came with an Equilizer. I trust my driving skills so why would or should I consider a different one?
__________________
Kosm1o is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2011, 06:14 PM   #307
Rivet Master
 
Diesel1's Avatar
 
1967 24' Tradewind
Wickenburg , Arizona
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 546
Thank you Bart. Well spoken. Adios, John
__________________
Diesel1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2011, 06:18 PM   #308
CLOUDSPLITTER "Tahawas"
 
ROBERT CROSS's Avatar

 
2003 25' Classic
Zanadude Nebula , WNY
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 11,153
Images: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kosm1o View Post
So, of the causes of sway, which of them will an anti-sway hitch likely help? And how much is it likely to help? Some, it appears, don't give the Equilizer hitch very good marks for the friction anti-sway it has. Yet many on this forum use them with great success. I am guessing that anti-sway is more about proper set-up and safe-driving and maybe less about the hitch. I ask this because I have many miles behind the wheel pulling many types of trailers without incident. Now I have an Airstream that came with an Equilizer. I trust my driving skills so why would or should I consider a different one?

If your comfortable with what you have....why change?

I've never experienced sway, regardless the cause, with the Hensley set-up properly.

Bob
__________________

__________________
PFC.....

“After all these years the reason I continue to love Thanksgiving.....I still sit at the kids table.”
RLC

Sandra wanted to go to Cleveland on vacation,
but I’m the Husband, so we went to Cleveland.
RLC
ROBERT CROSS is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
sway control? barts Hitches, Couplers & Balls 101 01-20-2010 03:57 AM
L-pins are grinding against the sway bars on my Equal-i-zer sway control hitch Simoneau Hitches, Couplers & Balls 9 06-20-2009 09:28 AM
Sway Control Zeppelinium Brakes & Brake Controllers 3 02-17-2008 08:14 PM
Sway Control azflycaster Hitches, Couplers & Balls 28 01-06-2006 10:47 AM
do I need sway control? soultrip11 Hitches, Couplers & Balls 5 03-14-2003 11:46 AM


Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:30 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.